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posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by jrsdls

Most Iraqi's are pro-American now. I have been there and I know for a fact that the vast majority of Iraqi's are glad we are there. Unfortunately, we have a media that only shows the negative.


This report shows that you are posting incorrect information.

USA Today also contributes to this dicsussion:



But while they acknowledge benefits from dumping Saddam a year ago, Iraqis no longer see the presence of the American-led military as a plus. Asked whether they view the U.S.-led coalition as "liberators" or "occupiers," 71% of all respondents say "occupiers."

That figure reaches 81% if the separatist, pro-U.S. Kurdish minority in northern Iraq is not included. The negative characterization is just as high among the Shiite Muslims who were oppressed for decades by Saddam as it is among the Sunni Muslims who embraced him.

The growing negative attitude toward the Americans is also reflected in two related survey questions: 53% say they would feel less secure without the coalition in Iraq, but 57% say the foreign troops should leave anyway. Those answers were given before the current showdowns in Fallujah and Najaf between U.S. troops and guerrilla fighters.


Also, check this Newsweek link

So jrsdls, I don't understand why you are posting "facts" that are no facts at all. I can't imagine a media conspiracy of THAT size (since there are multitude of sources) that would manufacture the polls.

Truth is, Iraqis want the US to leave.



[edit on 19-8-2004 by Aelita]




posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 01:39 PM
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Aelita,

Thanks for the link, and you are right US overstated their welcome in Iraq and is time to move out, but it can not see, the power of the oil in that country is keeping the present administration glue to it regardless of the consequences.

AT the end we will not longer are going to discuss the war, occupation or liberation of Iraq is going to come to the same thing, the power of the oil.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by Pyros
ECC, although some of your points may be valid, your arguement(s) lose alot of credibility (at least with me) because you come off as irrational, overly emotional, and sometimes insulting. And that is not meant to be offensive.

And while I don't agree with some of Grady's observations and points, his style of communication is delivered evenly and without overreaction, which makes it, at a minimum, easier to read and digest.

Maybe you should review your posts and take a few moments to consider re-editing them before you hit "sumbit"? I sometimes find myself agreeing with what you are trying to say....only to then be offended or repulsed by an irrational or emotioanlly charged accusation of some nature. If you are trying to make a point or ask everyone's opinion, I would suggest being a little more even-handed.

And BTW, as soon as you said that our sodiers are over there committing "war crimes"....you lost me for good.



I'm sorry if the truth bothers you. I'm a veteran and you're damn right I'm passionate. George W. Bush and his band of war criminals has lied my country into a bloody, endless, unreasonable illegal war of aggression. Forgive me if I get a little heated when I think of my brothers and sisters in uniform being blown to shyte and maimed for life FOR A LIE. Maybe you should get a little more pissed off.

No offense.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by jrsdls

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I'll go one further, before you sit there and talk about what you'd do,; at least, try and imagine the Red Dawn scenario. What would you do if the USA was invaded by say, China and Russia and they were occupying this country against our will. IMAGINE IT. Don't tell me it can't happen. This is HYPOTHETICAL. WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO KICK THE INVADERS OUT? RIght, we'd be FREEDOM FIGHTERS. Well, how the hell do you think the Iraqis feel? THINK ABOUT IT!

I don't suppose you Bush supporters even understand that before the Gulf War, even after the Gulf War, most Iraqis were very pro-American. George W. Bush has blown that to hell just like everything else he's touched.

He's an idiot.
Most Iraqi's are pro-American now. I have been there and I know for a fact that the vast majority of Iraqi's are glad we are there. Unfortunately, we have a media that only shows the negative .


Please tell us just exactly WHERE you were over there. If I remember correctly, you said Bahrain, Saudi and - Iraq? WHERE in Iraq? Knowing that would explain a lot. There are a lot of other folks over there, too; funny, they see it differently.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 03:21 PM
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By the way, did you ever step foot outside the green zone? That is if you were in Iraq.

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 04:15 PM
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posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Corinthas
[
Errr... wait soldiers ARE murderers! They just get paid to do it, oh and they are convienently absolved of all blame by word games.



Soldiers are not murderers by definition. Soldiers who murder even enemy combatants in combat are prosecuted. Any US combatant who violates the rules of warfare and is caught is prosecuted. You're the one who plays word games.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by BOHICA


I can't tell.. is this sarcasm? If it is, it's very clever. The current administration's lies and propaganda are certainly reminiscent of the 1940s. It's almost pathetic how the proponents of the war in Iraq try to pervert the "liberal" argument into being anti-troop instead of anti-"them". Masters of the fait accompli, they are and always have been. Get the troops over there as soon as you can, then when anyone criticizes our ass, it's too late! We can call them anti-our-troops!

Myself, I would never presume to drag the troops into the anti-war argument, let alone use them as a shield for a pro-war position.

-koji K.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid, our soldiers are over there committing WAR CRIMES; and obviously, for the most part they don't even understand that. It's insane.


not really, read the geneva convention, what we are doing in najif is well within the law.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Corinthas
[
Errr... wait soldiers ARE murderers! They just get paid to do it, oh and they are convienently absolved of all blame by word games.



Soldiers are not murderers by definition. Soldiers who murder even enemy combatants in combat are prosecuted. Any US combatant who violates the rules of warfare and is caught is prosecuted. You're the one who plays word games.


Lol, rules of warfare? Soldiers are paid to kill/murder people, I do not see why you do not understand that.

But, those "murdered" are casualties of war, so it is all fine and dandy *cough*. I really feel for the troops out there, they are in a no win situation.

[edit on 19-8-2004 by Kriz_4]



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by Kriz_4
[Lol, rules of warfare? Soldiers are paid to kill/murder people, I do not see why you do not understand that.

But, those "murdered" are casualties of war, so it is all fine and dandy *cough*. I really feel for the troops out there, they are in a no win situation.


All homicides are not murder. I have killed, but I am not a murderer. I think you need to speak from a basis of knowledge, instead of just ejaculating every thought that comes to mind.

You might start with a few history courses and some sociology thrown in for good measure. Without a historical perspective and a theoretical framework you sound like an idiot and, of course, we all know that can't be true.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Kriz_4
[Lol, rules of warfare? Soldiers are paid to kill/murder people, I do not see why you do not understand that.

But, those "murdered" are casualties of war, so it is all fine and dandy *cough*. I really feel for the troops out there, they are in a no win situation.


I have killed, but I am not a murderer.
you sound like an idiot and, of course, we all know that can't be true.


You decided to kill. and get paid for it. I do not see your point.

I am not a "idiot" thank you.
















[edit on 19-8-2004 by Kriz_4]



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 06:22 PM
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I know you're not an idiot. You just sound like one.




[edit on 04/8/19 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by marg6043



quote: And just for my own curiosity, if you care to answer, EastCoastKid - did you earn those wings?


I was waiting for the answer, hurrraaa for you EastCoastKid.


I'm probably not gonna get an answer back from Relentless. I'd be willing to wager a bet R was in diapers when I was IN THE FIELD.


Oh step off! Here I am. Well, excuse me for being off the internet for many hours at a time. We are still recovering from power & cable outages from Charley down here.

As a matter of fact the only reason I asked that was to see if YOU were a kid in diapers.
I don't know anyone else with those wings who feels quite the same way you do so I was curious from a perspective point. Also, I know someone who claims to have them and doesn't, but used to get away with using them for credibility & political gain. Edit
My point being it's not a hard thing to claim and there are people who know this and get away with it for years, dispicable as that may sound, so it is one of the things I am wary of.)

So no, I wasn't a kid in diapers in 1991 either. I also don't see why Marg is getting such glee from your response to me except that you both took it the wrong way.






[edit on 19-8-2004 by Relentless]



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
[(A) Just because they hated Saddam does not mean they wanted the USA to come in and take over. Do you not realize that? Are you not listening to the people of IRAQ? You should give a try. You might see more clearly.

(C) If you understood the Iraqi people, you would know they are not a nation to suffer foreign occupation. It has never worked and it never will. Do some research on Mesopotamia going back just 100 years. If you do, that reality will become as clear to you as the nose on your face.

These people are outraged citizens who are fighting what they consider to be OCCUPATION. That is what it is, plain and simple. We had better get used to fact that we are not welcome and the people of Iraq will spill as much of their blood as they must to evict us from THEIR land.


See, all this occupation and taking over nonsense. This is not what we are doing. We are trying right now to turn the gov't back over to the Iraqi's, we have trained them but they are not yet ready to go it alone.

In addition, might I point out the following:

www.foxnews.com...


Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said earlier Thursday that the Iraqi military would rout the militiamen out of the compound if al-Sadr failed to heed his ultimatum.


It is the Iraqi Prime Minister, being backed by the US on this offensive.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 07:56 PM
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Relentless,

It was not about you but because my husband is a Marine and he served like EastCoastKid in the gulf war.

The hurrrraaa is something that Marines do when they are recognize is like a trade mark.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Relentless,

It was not about you but because my husband is a Marine and he served like EastCoastKid in the gulf war.

The hurrrraaa is something that Marines do when they are recognize is like a trade mark.


For future reference, it's actually more like "OOOHRAAH!" The term was in usage when I served, but it's use was very limited. Now it is about as multi-purpose as any term in the English language, including the "copulatory invective."



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
For future reference, it's actually more like "OOOHRAAH!" The term was in usage when I served, but it's use was very limited. Now it is about as multi-purpose as any term in the English language, including the "copulatory invective."


Oh, now at least I know what she meant. Thanks for clearing that up Grady.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 08:25 PM
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Well I don't know about you but for twenty some years I had to listen to that "OOOHRAAH!" whenever marines where in groups and even now after my husband been retired I still have to hear that "OOOHRAAH!" whenever he and his retired bodies get together, he still works for the military you know.


By the way my husband said is about pride.

[Edited on 19-8-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 12:02 AM
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regarding iraqis who see US as liberaters; In the Sunni and Shiite regions that sentiment is 10 percent and 7 percent, respectively.


i will bet my money that this number is from the ones who are too damn scared to go out side and sit in their house watching the propaganda churning american controled iraq media.

how can you cheer for our troops when they are fighting for something so blatently imoral and evil? its like knowing hitler was killing off the jews and still giving him your support. who ever supports evil motives, must also be evil. the old saying goes money is the root of evil. this war is about money, not keeping our country secure, security of he most powerful nation in the world is as easy as fortifying our borders with tanks and artillary and lining the coasts with patriot missiles. this has not been done. so logicaly you must assume that they could give a rats arse about our security. they will allow the economy to wither away and poverty to reign supreme. all who comply with govt regulations will be conditioned to a certain extent that they will unknowingly contribute to their agenda. welcome to hell.



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