Welcome to Hell

If they start destroying holy cities like Najaf (one of the holiest), all hell will break loose.
They would have to passify the enemy without destroying these cities.
Or stay away.
Saddam knew how to keep the balance (I almost sound like a Saddam-fan now, don�t I?).
Saddam is not there anymore.
Somebody else must keep the balance.
Or the region will spin out of control.
Somebody is about to burn their fingers...

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Kriz_4
Religion is a life based way of thinking for many people around the world. Being in a religous building means to many that they are SAFE from harm,

Well, if that's what they think, they're about to be disillusioned. The US has been very patient and respectful of religious matters, but when the enemy abuses his own shrine, then the rules change.

What is all this touchy-feely stuff for the enemy. Don't you know that these people would cut your heart out if they had a chance? Just how touchy feely was the 9/11 attack?

I think US television sanitized the images of 9/11 too much. What we are left with looks like a Hollywood disaster movie we've seen too many times. We should see those people jumping to their deaths, their splattered bodies on the pavement. We should listen to the testimony of the survivors over and over again about the horror they lived through.

Don't be so open minded that your brain falls out!

what does the iraq situation have to do with 9/11? don't be so closed minded that nothing gets in!

-koji K.

Originally posted by koji_K
what does the iraq situation have to do with 9/11? don't be so closed minded that nothing gets in!
-koji K.

I replied a bit earlier in the same vein... Grady peppers his posts with 9/11 references for no reason. Like killing the Sadr people will help avenge this. What bull#.

Originally posted by Aelita
I replied a bit earlier in the same vein... Grady peppers his posts with 9/11 references for no reason. Like killing the Sadr people will help avenge this. What bull#.

9/11 has everything to do with Iraq as a breeding ground for terrorists and the fact that Saddam's regime brought instability to the region and was a generally accepted threat to civilization. Kerry said it, Bush said it, the UN said it and on and on and on.

Aellita, could you explain your avatar and the reference to the CCCP? I might have a better idea of what your position is if I understood your alligences. Do you live in Moscow? Are you Russian?

[edit on 04/8/18 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

9/11 has everything to do with Iraq as a breeding ground for terrorists and the fact that Saddam's regime brought instability to the region and was a generally accepted threat to civilization. Kerry said it, Bush said it, the UN said it and on and on and on.

[edit on 04/8/18 by GradyPhilpott]

eh? iraq was anything but a breeding ground for terrorists before the US invasion. saddam was a harsh secular dictator who kept his country under very tight check and, for all his faults, free from islamic fundamentalism. he was the sworn enemy of people like osama bin laden.

i think you are confusing the situatin with how it is now. following the us invasion, many foreign islamic extremists have come to iraq to fight the americans, and looting of various iaea monitored wmd facilities occured.

certainly saddam was a threat to his neighbours, but not a terrorist one. he was also contained and militarily neutered by the coalition. and as for links with terrorists espoused by kerry, bush, the UN, etc... i seem to recall a lot of backtracking lately and two independent reports from the US and the UK claiming that the supposed links were based on flawed and exagerrated intelligence.

-koji K.

yeah we really need to open up with the 50 cal on the little girl in the wheel chair. damn you people are ruthless. they are enacting a civil demonstration, much like the ones all you old dinosaur hippies did during the vietnam days. and you are saying to fill them full of lead? they have a voice. their voice is overwhelmingly pesemistic towards the US occupation. since we did go in to sow the seeds of democracy we should listen to the voice of the people, right? this is excaclty what our govt is not doing. they have chosed the path of mefumado, there is no turning back....

koji_K'

Finally somebody that recognized the true about Iraq, finally people is starting to see that Sadam may have been a killer and a dictator but Oh boy he keep islamic fundamentalist from his land and very much in a tie grip in his land the clerics.

US just wake up the Islamic radical movement in Iraq, it has been asleep since Sadam took power.

Wow, I can't believe that anyone can still stay that the US was right to go into Iraq. The so called evidence of mass destruction was a 100% lie made up by G. W. Bush and his minions. The people of Iraq and other arib nations have every right to hate America, its government and its people. As was pointed out earlier in this thread most Iraqies were pro american before all the BS started. Now they have witnessed their beloved country be invaded and their friends and family murdered. While this is going on the entire world stands by and does nothing except for those who choose to defend their country. I expect that if America was invaded its citizens would do their best to protect their land. Just think this all started with a man who didn't even win his election! WOW! I feel for all the Americans who don't support Bush or his policies. You can say I am canadian and I dont know what I am talking about but I have more family in the US then I do here. Your country has managed to piss of about 95% of the world and it is inevitable that the US will face much retaliation when history looks back over the next 100-200 years. What a farce. I cant believe that with all the guns and weapons in the US that G.W. Bush hasn't had any shots taken at him yet. Please don't take this the wrong way for I do not hate Americans, only the policies that it's government follows. Oh well not much can be done except to watch how it unfolds on CNN i guess.

[edit on 19-8-2004 by Veebomb_Canada]

Veebomb_Canada,

Actually you being from another country gives you a more detach perspective of the situation involving another countries, here in US people tend to be patriotic as you well seen and that make us somewhat blind to the realities of what is going on in the rest of the world if US is involve.

I think is a natural thing to do but sometimes the blindness can take away rationality.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Aelita
I replied a bit earlier in the same vein... Grady peppers his posts with 9/11 references for no reason. Like killing the Sadr people will help avenge this. What bull#.

9/11 has everything to do with Iraq as a breeding ground for terrorist

Well, as Koji just wrote, it was MADE a breeding ground courtesy of the US of A. Justifying the aggression in Iraq by "breeding ground" is breaking the principle of causality.

Aellita, could you explain your avatar and the reference to the CCCP? I might have a better idea of what your position is if I understood your alligences. Do you live in Moscow? Are you Russian?

a) I like the old propaganda art for its aesthetic value
b) I live in NY, and witnessed the terrible events of 9/11 in broad daylight
c) My allegiance is with the United States
d) I am Russian and was born in CCCP

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

We're turning our soldiers into murderers.

This insanity has GOT to STOP!

Errr... wait soldiers ARE murderers! They just get paid to do it, oh and they are convienently absolved of all blame by word games.

drugs=medicine one is "good" other is "bad"

soldiers=terrorists same here one "good" other "bad"

president of the U S of A = genocidal megalomanic

Originally posted by Relentless

What about the average man on the street who wanted to take their country back from Saddam? I really don't think you can make broad statements about the Iraqi's in this context, it doesn't apply to all of them, some of them do want us there, but certainly not the militants.

(A) Just because they hated Saddam does not mean they wanted the USA to come in and take over. Do you not realize that? Are you not listening to the people of IRAQ? You should give a try. You might see more clearly.

(B) Broad statements? About 10-20% want us there at the present. I guess you havn't been brought up to speed on that little tidbit of info. Do yourself a favor and quit listening to that NEO CON horseshyte that passes for news. You'd be much better informed.

(C) If you understood the Iraqi people, you would know they are not a nation to suffer foreign occupation. It has never worked and it never will. Do some research on Mesopotamia going back just 100 years. If you do, that reality will become as clear to you as the nose on your face.

As for the Holy sites, rational people would see it is not the coalition jeapardizing them it is the fundamentalists using them as shields that is the root of the problem.

I just love the rhetoric you have been programmed to spew. Insurgents. Terrorists. Fundamentalists. According to your own rhetoric, over 80% of Iraq's population are "terrorists." That is impossible. These people are outraged citizens who are fighting what they consider to be OCCUPATION. That is what it is, plain and simple. We had better get used to fact that we are not welcome and the people of Iraq will spill as much of their blood as they must to evict us from THEIR land. My little brother is getting ready to go over there and I'll tell you this, not a drop of his blood is worth ANY of this madness. The Iraqi people should be given full authority over their own destiny right now! Anything less than that is pure 100% corruption on our part.

And just for my own curiosity, if you care to answer, EastCoastKid - did you earn those wings?

Glad you asked. Yes, I did earn those wings with my blood and sweat. Ft. Campbell, KY., Oct. 1991. If I might ask you, where were you when I was doing MY PART to defend this great land of OURS?

quote: And just for my own curiosity, if you care to answer, EastCoastKid - did you earn those wings?

I was waiting for the answer, hurrraaa for you EastCoastKid.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott


9/11 has everything to do with Iraq

Please explain to us how? You can't, because Saddam had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Just because Tricky Dick Cheney says it, does not make it true. You're doing yourself a great disservice buying into this BS. You're lying to yourselves.

as a breeding ground for terrorists

More of the same nonsense. It's funny how facts just can't get in the way of fantasy. I'll grant you this, though. It is now, thanks to BUSHCO.

The truth of the matter is, Saddam loathed Islamic extremists as much as we all do. He didn't f**k around with them. He was actually an ally in the war on terror (in his own way); but, the Bush administrations with the help of a compliant media has thoroughly brainwashed America into thinking that Hussein's rule ran counter to our interests. His rule (when it came to Islamic fundamentalists) actually benefitted us. He was merciless with them. What do you think SECULAR DICTATORSHIP means? They had no quarter in his country. Further, he hated Osama Bin Laden.

BushCo. has gotten its way, though. They removed Saddam and allowed all hell to break lose so that Iraq would become a breeding ground for terrorists. Gotta have that external enemy to fight, folks. Gotta justify our illegal aggression and forever rising military budgets. Make no mistake, none of this is about PROTECTING you! Wake up and smell the coffee. It's about the PNAC, baby.

and the fact that Saddam's regime brought instability to the region

Sorry, but you're really gonna have to explain this one to us. I don't think you can, considering Saddam hasn't been a threat to anyone outside his borders since we ran him outta Kuwait in '91. This is more mindless RHETORIC. You're gonna havta be smarter that.

The war in Iraq is being waged against whom? The Iraqi people? I think not. It has been said, the breeding ground for terrorists is what Iraq is today, yes? The west is in a war against the Islamofacists, in particular, the current front in the war is between the west and, for the most part, the Iranians, and is being fought on the battlefield of Iraq. The Iraqi people will one day have their country back, when the Iranians are defeated there.

Originally posted by marg6043

quote: And just for my own curiosity, if you care to answer, EastCoastKid - did you earn those wings?

I was waiting for the answer, hurrraaa for you EastCoastKid.

I'm probably not gonna get an answer back from Relentless. I'd be willing to wager a bet R was in diapers when I was IN THE FIELD.

Originally posted by smokenmirrors
The war in Iraq is being waged against whom? The Iraqi people? I think not. It has been said, the breeding ground for terrorists is what Iraq is today, yes? The west is in a war against the Islamofacists, in particular, the current front in the war is between the west and, for the most part, the Iranians, and is being fought on the battlefield of Iraq. The Iraqi people will one day have their country back, when the Iranians are defeated there.

Puddy in the hands of the elite, you are. It's so easy for them. For those who understand; its damn sad.

smokenmirrors,

ha, ha, ha, this is the funniest think,"Iraqis will have their country back"

Well yeah! Whatever is left of it, and let�s not forget after half of the population is death, oh! Sorry I mean the "Islamic radical" that happened to be Iraqis, whoa! Is so hard for US to distinguish one from the other after all in their own lands and so, and they all look the same ARABS you know.

Yeah may be one day Iraqis will see freedom from the US invasion, who knows they may even be able to use their own oil perhaps US will allowed them to do just that, but for now die!!!!!!!!!!!!Die infidels die!!!!!!!!!!!!You are not ready to deal with your own resources yet.


smokenmirrors,
Nothing personal just diferences in oppinion thats all.

ECC, although some of your points may be valid, your arguement(s) lose alot of credibility (at least with me) because you come off as irrational, overly emotional, and sometimes insulting. And that is not meant to be offensive.

And while I don't agree with some of Grady's observations and points, his style of communication is delivered evenly and without overreaction, which makes it, at a minimum, easier to read and digest.

Maybe you should review your posts and take a few moments to consider re-editing them before you hit "sumbit"? I sometimes find myself agreeing with what you are trying to say....only to then be offended or repulsed by an irrational or emotioanlly charged accusation of some nature. If you are trying to make a point or ask everyone's opinion, I would suggest being a little more even-handed.

And BTW, as soon as you said that our sodiers are over there committing "war crimes"....you lost me for good.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I'll go one further, before you sit there and talk about what you'd do,; at least, try and imagine the Red Dawn scenario. What would you do if the USA was invaded by say, China and Russia and they were occupying this country against our will. IMAGINE IT. Don't tell me it can't happen. This is HYPOTHETICAL. WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO KICK THE INVADERS OUT? RIght, we'd be FREEDOM FIGHTERS. Well, how the hell do you think the Iraqis feel? THINK ABOUT IT!

I don't suppose you Bush supporters even understand that before the Gulf War, even after the Gulf War, most Iraqis were very pro-American. George W. Bush has blown that to hell just like everything else he's touched.

He's an idiot.

Most Iraqi's are pro-American now. I have been there and I know for a fact that the vast majority of Iraqi's are glad we are there. Unfortunately, we have a media that only shows the negative .