Welcome to Hell

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Just when one hotspot cools, more flare up. The people of Iraq have just about had it with us. I seriously doubt there is anything in the world we can do at this point to make things right with them.

Didn't you read that nice post I carefully wrote out addressing just this? They're going to repeatedly open up 'public' fronts that demand action and come to negotiated surrenders before they're entirely broken so they can reorganize a new front. Meanwhile the strategic war aims of disrupting outbound fuel continues while US manpower is used to quell the urban brushfires. The insurgents over there are the minority of the population.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
This is madness, pure and simple. Attacking the holy city of Najaf has got to be as stupid an action as we have taken in Iraq yet. This group of Neo Con pin-head thugs running the war from Washington are beyond STUPID. I can't wait till they're kicked out of office and sent back to hell where they belong.

[edit on 31-8-2004 by bushblows]

East Coast Kid -

you are much too intelligent to be in America.

Of course our attacking a Holy City is retarded. Politicians and spoiled
US citizens don't care, though - because they aren't in Iraq. They are also
too dumb to realize our remaining there is fueling terror group's fire.

Here's my advice to you: relocate to europe. Or at the very least....visit
europe. Do you honestly think say, an educated German thinks our
military policies are intelligent? Of course not. For that matter...do you think an educated German is dumb enough to think our infantry soldiers can "whoop" suicide bombers butts?

Even the Brits are a bit more informed because their media is no where near as shady as ours.

Trust me when I tell you europeans are WAYYYYY more intelligent then Americans and don't have the romanticized view of war most US citizens have.

Life is too short to squander your time and intelligence on dim-witted Americans who have no concern for anyone but themselves.

...and as I read what bushblow had simply quoted, this image came to mind:


You see, its the very image of what I read in the above individuals quote that bothered me.......that "we", the US, etc. should not hammer so-called "holy-sites".....
Well, well, I guess Al-Sadr and his goons are running around still, eh?
Najaf...Fallujah, Baghdad.....geezus crux.....them there "holy sites" seem to be everywhere. Nonetheless, action will have to be taken soon, and despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth from those who wish to decry otherwise.....extremism will have to be confronted and IF confronting them means that those who practice extremism can run into a so-called "holy-site" and proclaim sanctuary and protection and then still fight from within those SAME holy-sites, then guess what.......them and those holy-sites can go KaboOm, together, k?



seekerof

Originally posted by bushblows

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
This is madness, pure and simple. Attacking the holy city of Najaf has got to be as stupid an action as we have taken in Iraq yet. This group of Neo Con pin-head thugs running the war from Washington are beyond STUPID. I can't wait till they're kicked out of office and sent back to hell where they belong.

Here's my advice to you: relocate to europe. Or at the very least....visit
europe. Do you honestly think say, an educated German thinks our
military policies are intelligent? Of course not. For that matter...do you think an educated German is dumb enough to think our infantry soldiers can "whoop" suicide bombers butts?

Even the Brits are a bit more informed because their media is no where near as shady as ours.

Trust me when I tell you europeans are WAYYYYY more intelligent then Americans and don't have the romanticized view of war most US citizens have.

Life is too short to squander your time and intelligence on dim-witted Americans who have no concern for anyone but themselves.


[edit on 31-8-2004 by bushblows]

Like anyplace you are going to find a mix of the inteligent and the moronic. Those who think for themselfs and those who prefer to be told how to live. Europe is not immune of this.

Case in point - Tony Blair has appently bought into Bush as much as many ameicans have. Which is really too bad because before all this I thought VERY highly of PM Blair.

Your right that Many Americans have a romantisized view of War and I think this is because there is noone alive in our country who has ever seen a ground War on our on our soil reminding us of the destruction of war day in and day out. Europeans and Asians do have the sad benifit of this and yet some of them still support Bush for whatever reason.

Please be carefull when you make broad statements such as all Americans, or things allong that line. We are not all the "Ugly American" traveler.

Wraith

[edit on 31-8-2004 by wraith30]

Originally posted by bushblows
East Coast Kid -

you are much too intelligent to be in America.

Thanks for the compliment. I'm sure there are many here who would disagree with you strenuously.

I havta say, there are many intelligent people here in the USA. A lot of them are afraid to speak out in any way. I wish they would shake that off, though. It's only gonna worse.

I would love to travel Europe. I was so lookin forward to going to Germany when I was in the Army. Didn't happen, tho. I got the '90-'91 Saudi Sun Tour instead.

Intelligent Americans are afraid to speak up because this country is all about being dumbed down - which is in itself reason to move out!

Sure there are bright people in the US and not everyone in europe is a rocket scientist. But the reality is this: 50 percent of the US population is still siding with Bush! Whether you're a repub or dem isn't an issue; it's fairly obvious to anyone with a brain in their head George doesn't have the nation's best interest in mind. As long as 50 percent of US voters think we are safer from terrorism since Operation Ignore Bin Laden I'm gonna side with the rest of the world in assuming AMERICANS ARE DUMB.

We experienced Vietnam, remember, and STILL think sending troops abroad is a hunky-dorey-way-cool-thang-to-do. (Can anyone say: self absorbed and stupid??)

Try to make it to Germany. You'll learn lots more from people whose family members survived Hitler then you'll ever learn from pro-war Americans.

Yeah, when things get going bad in this country I suggest all the people who disagree move out. I'm sure the government would like to see people running away to Europe than to see people who who love America and aren't afraid to speak their minds staying here and voting, protesting, and forming citizen militias.

money = power

its all about the money, baby

wich is why we are destined to burn in hell

Because of our wrong-headed handling of the situation, al Sadr will probably emerge from all of this as a much bigger political player than he ever would have before.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Because of our wrong-headed handling of the situation, al Sadr will probably emerge from all of this as a much bigger political player than he ever would have before.

His goal is to keep fighting and surviving, fighting and surviving, eventually if enough of his followers stay alive he'll grow a cult of personality for people who feel disenfranchised.

However, if people in the country get opportunity and safety they'll view him as a loser.

All depends how well the military can kick his ass while grooming the attitude of the nation at the same time.

He can run around screaming about jihad but money talks, BS walks.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Yeah, when things get going bad in this country I suggest all the people who disagree move out. I'm sure the government would like to see people running away to Europe than to see people who who love America and aren't afraid to speak their minds staying here and voting, protesting, and forming citizen militias.

You are right - people who like this culture and wish to remain here SHOULD stick around and try to make positive changes. All I'm saying is there are places on the planet which aren't anywhere near as shallow,
self absorbed or dull. What do Americans do for fun? Do we have Octoberfests? Do we have autobahns? Do we leave the office early to relax in cafes and chat with friends like so many Parisians do?
Can we walk around topless like they do in Spain? Or would a woman who attempted such a thing be gang raped?

There are MANY lurid aspects of this culture. Citizens who are unhappy here need to be reminded there's life beyond American.

I guess the RNC has taken the news away from Iraq but the truth is that fighting has not stopped in Najah and is sprouting all over Iraq and our American soldiers are dying every day, but we have been diverted from all this.

Originally posted by bushblows

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Yeah, when things get going bad in this country I suggest all the people who disagree move out. I'm sure the government would like to see people running away to Europe than to see people who who love America and aren't afraid to speak their minds staying here and voting, protesting, and forming citizen militias.

You are right - people who like this culture and wish to remain here SHOULD stick around and try to make positive changes. All I'm saying is there are places on the planet which aren't anywhere near as shallow,
self absorbed or dull. What do Americans do for fun? Do we have Octoberfests? Do we have autobahns? Do we leave the office early to relax in cafes and chat with friends like so many Parisians do?
Can we walk around topless like they do in Spain? Or would a woman who attempted such a thing be gang raped?

There are MANY lurid aspects of this culture. Citizens who are unhappy here need to be reminded there's life beyond American.

Parisians live in a city. You can compare them to New Yorkers, San Fransiscans, etc., but not Americans as a whole.

We don't have many nude beaches but there are nude beaches. Americans are pretty Puritanical. You wouldn't be gang raped for walking topless but you'd be asked to put your top on.

We actually do have Octoberfests in some parts of the country, while county fairs are ubiquitous in the fall.

No autobahns and in fact I can remember when the national speed limit was 55. Some areas it's 75 now. Most national highways don't have tolls, though, and the ability to drive from Bangor to Key West to Las Vegas to Seattle and back to Bangor without going through a single checkpoint or paying a single road toll is pretty amazing in its own right.

Shallow, self-absorbed, and dull? You must be talking about snobs, who are international. Most Americans are just like people all around the world - very friendly.

imo if you use a religious site for military purposes then you forfeit the claim that it cannot be attacked because its a holy place.

Originally posted by Seekerof
...and as I read what bushblow had simply quoted, this image came to mind:


You see, its the very image of what I read in the above individuals quote that bothered me.......that "we", the US, etc. should not hammer so-called "holy-sites".....
Well, well, I guess Al-Sadr and his goons are running around still, eh?
Najaf...Fallujah, Baghdad.....geezus crux.....them there "holy sites" seem to be everywhere. Nonetheless, action will have to be taken soon, and despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth from those who wish to decry otherwise.....extremism will have to be confronted and IF confronting them means that those who practice extremism can run into a so-called "holy-site" and proclaim sanctuary and protection and then still fight from within those SAME holy-sites, then guess what.......them and those holy-sites can go KaboOm, together, k?

seekerof

That was a good picture.
But what is he doing there in the first place?
You know why they let Al Sadr off so easy?
B/c he has more than one million men under arms, that`s why.
He better watch where he puts his foot (The big guy with the gun in above picture).

Because of the ineptitude of Rumsfeld and his goons, in the way they've handled everything from top to bottom, beginning till now, al-Sadr is already a force to be reckoned with. At least al-Sistani is back. He's the star of the show, not Allawi.

EastCoastKid

Sorry it took a while to respond, been busy.

Absolutely I would fight till the end. Ask yourself a question if you were hiding in a church would it be safe from the advancing army ? Hardly, you would be burried in the rubble. Secondly is sadr from Iraq ? Hardly, has he been asked by the Iraq people to take his goons and leave the city ? Absolutely! So the scenario is vastly different. Dont get me wrong I can appreciate someone fighting for what they feel right but that is exactly what we are doing also. Give Iraq a chance to be free and let the people of Iraq decide there future. You cannot deny that a free country is a better country. This little conversation right here would cost you your life in many places.


Sadr isnt fighting for his homeland because we are not in Iran.
Sadr doesn't want a free Iraq! Freedom threatens his existance and his control over the people.

Have you ever read the qu'ran, bukhari�s hadith, ishaq�s sira ?








[edit on 3-9-2004 by sniper068]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by bushblows
East Coast Kid -

you are much too intelligent to be in America.

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm sure there are many here who would disagree with you strenuously.

I havta say, there are many intelligent people here in the USA. A lot of them are afraid to speak out in any way. I wish they would shake that off, though. It's only gonna worse.

I would love to travel Europe. I was so lookin forward to going to Germany when I was in the Army. Didn't happen, tho. I got the '90-'91 Saudi Sun Tour instead.

I for one have to disagree, opinions are not the measure of a person in America, ECK just gave his opinion and just because it is the same as yours doesn't make it right. My opinion differs from ECK , And I live in America because I am smart. Maybe we should pick apart the country your friend resides because I'm sure it is something that will give us many years of hilariuos conversation. Unless it is france then it not even worth the time or energy.

[edit on 3-9-2004 by sniper068]

Originally posted by bushblows

All I'm saying is there are places on the planet which aren't anywhere near as shallow, self absorbed or dull. What do Americans do for fun? Do we have Octoberfests? Do we have autobahns? Do we leave the office early to relax in cafes and chat with friends like so many Parisians do?
Can we walk around topless like they do in Spain? Or would a woman who attempted such a thing be gang raped?

While I don't recommend that self-respecting women strut around with their funbags exposed, I have to say that this country is not short on festivals. Yes, we do have Oktoberfests, Mardi Gras, Spring Break, Cinco de Mayo and countless other festivals.

No we don't have an autobahn, but here in New Mexico the speed limit is 75 mph and if you promise not to tell anyone, I frequently drive in excess of 110 mph and spend a lot of time between 80 mph and 100 mph.

As for leaving work to relax in cafes, I'm not sure such a thing is ever going to catch on here, nor am I sure that it should. Does happy hour count?

www.oktoberfestusa.com...
www.aviso.net...
www.familytreemagazine.com...
www.stceliascorner.com...
colorado.rezrez.com...
www.fremontoktoberfest.com...
www.mylifeisbeer.com...
www.whatsontheplanet.com...
www.historictrinityinc.org...
www.tulsaoktoberfest.org...
americanairlines.wcities.com...
www.northwest-nudist.org...
walking.about.com...
www.frankfurt-airport.de...
www.frankfurt-airport.de...
www.oktoberfest.org...
www.mardigras.com...
mglinks.com...
www.mardigras.org.au...
www.mardigrasgalveston.com...
www.loc.gov...
www.usemb.se...
www.carnaval.com...
www.usatoday.com...
www.dm-productions.com...
www.usaentertainment.net...
japanupdate.com...
www.springbreakusa.com...
www.studentnow.com...
honeymoons.about.com...
www.google.com...



[edit on 04/9/4 by GradyPhilpott]