It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Abomination That Causes Desolation

page: 4
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:10 PM
link   
The time is never used in the abstract but it is always a particular point in time as in, "at that time".
It depends on the usage and what comes as the next word is what makes it to be understood in a particular way, which is, Law. So it is like what you were quoting in the verse, a decreed time. From looking at how this Aramaic word for time is used, when it comes to decreed times, it is usually connected to a term as ruler.
Looking at the usage of this Aramaic word for law, it seems to be usable for any law but the particular form of it fits your verse's translation, that it was by decree of the King.
The idea it seems goes with the general story, which is the King makes a decree that a time is allotted for this project and it is established by decree that even if the king dies and is replaced by another king, the decree still stands. If the second king decided that the project can go ahead, but at a delayed time, then he could be accused of being in violation of some sort of Law that even kings must submit to. A smart lawyer could argue and get the new king to comply with the older decree.




posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:23 PM
link   
reply to post by pthena
 

Good find of this paper.
It seemed to be unraveling the manipulations that were going on with the text.
I think your understanding of it is profound (in its implications), to say the least. The Christ hidden behind the Messiah.
That may explain Paul's take.



edit on 13-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 09:21 PM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
I can't take full credit. The Spanish fellow with moderate English skills tried very hard to get people to understand it. I had to back away for awhile to sort it out into something I could understand for myself. I'm sure what I am saying isn't exactly what he had in mind, but close enough for me though.

The eclipse, sometimes they look like 2 sometimes they look like one. Exact identities are probably changed from what the other fellow was saying.
check your U2U.

edit on 13-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 10:18 PM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60


If the second king decided that the project can go ahead, but at a delayed time, then he could be accused of being in violation of some sort of Law that even kings must submit to. A smart lawyer could argue and get the new king to comply with the older decree

And yet the very scripture keeps getting changed, so that "Just one more attempt on the city", over and over and over. Revelation even has one more attempt after the 1,000 years, for crying out loud! I can see it now. Satan leading the deluded of the world, banners held high, reading: Just one more temple rebuilding!!!



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 11:10 PM
link   
reply to post by pthena
 

I get your point.
I was using an example of something I think did happen, according to the story.
But, yes, probably there was someone in the vision, yelling about people changing the time, as in switching the time designations in the prophecy, times set by God.
That's a good way to look at it, what you said. If one attempt fails change the time and gear up for another.
I think your take is that time was up a long time ago.
That was what I was referring to in the first post of this thread, why I went through the raw translation back a year ago or whatever was because people had a new date calculation that made the fulfilment in our time. I could hardly believe it.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 12:20 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60


I think your take is that time was up a long time ago.

How Christian is it for people to ignore Jesus when he said,"For the Law and the Prophets prophesied until John."

"No, Jesus, No! what about this, and what about that?" "There's a destruction of a village here that hasn't happened yet, everyone left and it settled into the dust. We must rebuild this village, get people into it, then destroy it. It's got to be done, to prove "god" correct."



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 01:02 AM
link   
reply to post by pthena
 
That took me a while to sink in, but seeing this would have to be right, if we accept the Gospels as relaying actual sayings of Jesus, so looking at Daniel, to see fulfilment past the time he said that would be wrong. That would be a problem.
Ok had to think for a minute. Jesus interprets Daniel and nullifies it, then tells the same prophecy but correctly, then the original is put into affect by the retelling of it, with witnesses. So that would explain why later the Apostles emphasize the importance of their being witness, because Jesus said it instead of writing it.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 07:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by jmdewey60


I think your take is that time was up a long time ago.

How Christian is it for people to ignore Jesus when he said,"For the Law and the Prophets prophesied until John."

"No, Jesus, No! what about this, and what about that?" "There's a destruction of a village here that hasn't happened yet, everyone left and it settled into the dust. We must rebuild this village, get people into it, then destroy it. It's got to be done, to prove "god" correct."



John is the "close" of the OT. Jesus also goes on to say that the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John. Which is truly hard for anyone to accept.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 12:34 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical


John is the "close" of the OT. Jesus also goes on to say that the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John. Which is truly hard for anyone to accept.

So would you suggest to people that they walk away from the OT? Just walk away and live as people in the kingdom? Leave the old wineskin to crack in the sun and decay into the dust? To seek the new wine which is unkeepable in the old wineskin? To take it for granted that anything of value has already come to pass? That continuing to beat the dead horse of the OT to get a little something more out of it can only lead to curses being released, as the miasma gas coming from a bloated carcass?

Because if this is what you suggest then I'm with you.


edit on 14-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 10:25 PM
link   
That prophesy is duel it has a minor fulfillment in the first century that would be local and then a major fulfillment in the last days that would be worldwide. Jesus specifically said "let the reader use discernment", something required of anybody reading the entire bible, but why say it on this specific verse. Because it would take extra special discernment on the reader to figure this one, and he new that. Once you tie all the gospels together you come to the conclusion it was the Roman armies that sieged and briefly occupied Jerusalem under General Cestius Gallus in 66 AD, but then for a very peculiar reason left. This gave Christian a chance to vacate Jerusalem and Judea and a chance to react to Jesus warning to flee to mountainous regions after this event.
General Titus, soon to be Emperor would finish the job in 70 AD, true Christians where not caught in the mayhem slaughter because they were gone.
So in the first century the "Abomination/Disgusting thing" was a political entity and represented by it's real power at the time the Roman legions with all the paganism that they were a part of, disgusting to Jews and Christians alike.

In the 21st century the Abomination and Disgusting thing will once again be represented by a political entity that will develop an army to enforce it's power as well, however it will do it stealthily, and then surprise everybody.
And it will once again be viewed as disgusting because of it's actions.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 11:48 PM
link   
reply to post by Blue_Jay33


That prophesy is duel it has a minor fulfillment in the first century that would be local and then a major fulfillment in the last days that would be worldwide. Jesus specifically said "let the reader use discernment",
. . .
In the 21st century the Abomination and Disgusting thing will once again be represented by a political entity that will develop an army to enforce it's power as well, however it will do it stealthily, and then surprise everybody.
And it will once again be viewed as disgusting because of it's actions.

I don't speak for anybody else on this thread, but some of us reached a tentative conclusion that more than ample evidence exists to the effect that the texts themselves show repeated tampering for doctrinal purposes.

The people who lived through, or didn't, the final events of the destruction of Jerusalem would not have characterized them as minor.

Throughout Christian history, many movements, governments; both secular and religious, and decreed events such as Inquisition, Crusades, Genocides, European colonial expansion into other continents for conquest and exploitation have occurred. These events, through religious and state actions, did not occur as fulfillment of any specific OT prophecy. Yet discernment of the evil nature of these events should be expected from those who follow after Jesus the Christ, as subjects of his invisible spiritual kingdom.

In like manner, without specific scriptural timelines, or codes to decode, subjects of Jesus the Christ are expected to discern error and evil even when the error and evil wears religious guise and quotes scripture as its basis of authority. The simple fact of it using OT prophecy, which has been retired by Jesus, should be enough to identify it as fraud. If you wait for something to fit an exact pre-determined parameter before recognizing it as evil, you are liable to swallow all the evil that comes along without the exact parameter. Use your heart, your mind and your eyes along with the Spirit of Christ as you see events unfold. Think mostly of the people Jesus loves, the poor, the afflicted, the 'unclean', the rejected, the lackers of political or religious protection. Feel with them. When those with much political and religious cover claim persecution they are lying to distract your attention from those who truly are without protection.

Think on these things. Christ be with you.

Edit to add: My apologies. You are already aware of what I call your attention to.
edit on 15-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 12:08 AM
link   
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 

That prophesy is duel it has a minor fulfillment in the first century that would be local and then a major fulfillment in the last days that would be worldwide. Jesus specifically said "let the reader use discernment", something required of anybody reading the entire bible, but why say it on this specific verse. Because it would take extra special discernment on the reader to figure this one, and he new that.
Thanks for the contribution and I will be getting into the aspects of Jesus' prophecies. I prefer actual people's opinions over something off a blog or wikipedia (those are good for supplementary). Your post would be the result of your own study and understanding which is to me the more relevant.

edit on 15-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 09:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by redzareptile
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

LOL... Thnaks for understanding my humor... Not trying to bring the thread down. I just felt like a little humor was in order.

I do know that there are too many stand-up bible scholars holding the newspaper in one hand while holding the bible in the other. They fail to fully grasp the tricky interpitaions of the bible while applying their meaning to CNN.

I



Some scriptures can be taken literally word for word, others are metaphors and allegories. The trick is knowing which ones are which. It is commonly taught by alot of sects that it is to be taken word for word. You might gain some answers from it, but you will end up with more questions than you have answers to.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 09:35 AM
link   
reply to post by pthena
 





The people who lived through, or didn't, the final events of the destruction of Jerusalem would not have characterized them as minor.


I agree, however it is minor in locality, not in the pain and suffering, you must know that prophetic duality, first applied to the known world in the first century which was thought of as the geographical area of the Roman empire. Many parts of the world were unknown at that time so they could not apply to them in a first application, the second application would encompass the entire world.

As to your comments about the bible being meddled with, you either have faith that God can and would protect the only document that could lead his creation to salvation or you don`t.
It is about faith in God. And I will be bold and say Christians that allow secular research to degrade the bibles abilities as God`s protected source of true knowledge, have lost their faith in God himself.
The perceived degradation of the bible is a tool of Satanic origin. All people must understand there are some things God allows Satan to do, and other things he will not, one thing he is not allowed to do is eradicate or tamper with ALL bibles. However he does allow wrong interpretations of that bible and false Christians.
The original Holy Bible is off limits, those looking to serve God must be given a fighting chance against the tremendous odds stacked against them. This is why God has protected these writings.
edit on 15-8-2011 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 09:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Blue_Jay33




Throughout Christian history, many movements, governments; both secular and religious, and decreed events such as Inquisition, Crusades, Genocides, European colonial expansion into other continents for conquest and exploitation have occurred. These events, through religious and state actions, did not occur as fulfillment of any specific OT prophecy. Yet discernment of the evil nature of these events should be expected from those who follow after Jesus the Christ, as subjects of his invisible spiritual kingdom.

In like manner, without specific scriptural timelines, or codes to decode, subjects of Jesus the Christ are expected to discern error and evil even when the error and evil wears religious guise and quotes scripture as its basis of authority. The simple fact of it using OT prophecy, which has been retired by Jesus, should be enough to identify it as fraud. If you wait for something to fit an exact pre-determined parameter before recognizing it as evil, you are liable to swallow all the evil that comes along without the exact parameter. Use your heart, your mind and your eyes along with the Spirit of Christ as you see events unfold. Think mostly of the people Jesus loves, the poor, the afflicted, the 'unclean', the rejected, the lackers of political or religious protection. Feel with them. When those with much political and religious cover claim persecution they are lying to distract your attention from those who truly are without protection.

Think on these things. Christ be with you.

Edit to add: My apologies. You are already aware of what I call your attention to.
edit on 15-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)


The evils you spoke of in your first paragraph dealt with the Holy Roman Catholic Church of the Dark Ages up to 1700 AD. They sanctioned all the Crusades (because of wealth). They threatened christian soliders with excommunication if they didn't go in the Crusades, and promised that any sins commited would be forgiven if they did go. The wars fought over Jerusalem from both Muslim and Christian were purely for wealth. The Holy Roman Catholic Chuch also gave permission to the Dominicans to perpetrate the Inquisition in which hundreds of thousands of protestant christians were tortured to death or burned at the stake for witchcraft. More evil has come out of that church than any good they have done could possibly atone for. During the Dark Ages they were popular for selling real estate in heaven.

Your second paragraph, i agree with except where Yeshua retires the Old Testament. He said "i have not come to do away with the Old Law (OT), but to fulfill it".

Whatever the case with the Holy Roman Catholic Church, i wouldnt trust any of them as far as i could throw them, and i surely do not trust anyone bearing the title "Pope" since Christ did away with the need for any representative on earth (excepting that ALL christians should be his represnetative NOT just one man). My reasoning is old habits die hard, and for the fact that whatever they do i see as a clear manipulation of christianity. Christianity is NOT christendom. The purposeful and willful manipulation of the faith is heresy, and they have commited heresy in spades.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:19 AM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote:

["Some scriptures can be taken literally word for word, others are metaphors and allegories. The trick is knowing which ones are which. It is commonly taught by alot of sects that it is to be taken word for word. You might gain some answers from it, but you will end up with more questions than you have answers to."]

Which as usual leads back to the problem of who the 'true' christians are, a problem which inside the christianities often has been approached with violence or at best 'cold wars'.

Eventually the positions will be either christian faith-version against other christian faith-versions or an effort of 'bringing in' outer reference-points, such as e.g. scientific/logical/general philosopical/theological/epistemological support from the 'outside'.

Faith against faith can be made on an egalitarian basis, or through authoritarian, elitistic methods.

The 'bringing in' of outer references require knowledge of these included perspectives. A knowledge which seldom manifests to any significant degree as considered by those, who are REALLY familiar with any of the specific outside methods. Christian 'apologetics' in its propaganda-forms appears more to be 'hijackology'.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:36 AM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





Christianity is NOT christendom. The purposeful and willful manipulation of the faith is heresy, and they have commited heresy in spades.


And apostate heretics burning Christians, is an evil God will not forget, the descendants of that organizational clergy are in for a big shock in the near future. It is organizational blasphemy what they did, and it will not be forgiven.
Individual members of such organizations can escape these judgements, the religious order can not.
Blasphemy is the one unforgivable sins, and old Christendom blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
edit on 15-8-2011 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:56 AM
link   
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 

Individual members of such organizations can escape these judgements, the religious order can not.
People who remain dependent on that order while knowing they are wrong will share in their punishment. People need to act on what they know. The angel of Revelation says get out so you don't share in its punishment.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:00 AM
link   
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


It's not even apparant to me if you and Lonewolf are on the same side, but it's always fascinating to see christian preachers and prophets from elitist positions hurl their verbal missiles at 'heretics'.

For the rest of mankind it's informative and increasingly becoming a lesson reducing some life-choices: Do I die from boredom behind the TV or in a holy war? (Ofcourse there are other options, but they are less commonly known or applied amongst the unreflecting part of mankind).



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:18 AM
link   
reply to post by bogomil
 





but it's always fascinating to see christian preachers and prophets from elitist positions hurl their verbal missiles at 'heretics'.


The question is who is the heretic, those that try to read the bible and apply what they learn,
or the clergy who said your to stupid to understand, and then violated what it taught?



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join