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Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Corinthians15
but there was no place for the beast that was under me to pass.
Nehemiah2
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin
2Corinthians5
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree
Galatians3
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Matthew12
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law
Galatians4
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Philippians3
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Corinthians5
No. Not from these verses, as far as being God. There are a few different things going on in these verses that don't necessarily relate to each other.
would you say it is flesh claiming superiority above others, even "GOD" status? here are some scripts that lead me to think this is the case, at the same time I beleive all have a purpose
Think of the dry bones story, "I will put tendons on you and muscles over you and will cover you with skin; I will put breath in you and you will live." This was to the people of the time of Job, the resurrection.
Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by jmdewey60
I agree with most of what you're getting at but there are a few different ways to view "flesh", of course loving your neighbor can only be done while in the flesh but this is more like what I'm seeing
For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God
Job19
Paul seems to be equating being a Jew with being accepted by God. He was a Jew himself and probably was not at that time able to break out of that Paradigm. I may be wrong but my understanding is that this was written before he ever went to Rome and what he thought so many tears later would be quite different, like pthena suggested in the "Descent" thread, we seem to not have any letters that were authentic from Paul in his last days, where he may have broken free of relating everything through Judaism.
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans2
I think how you were born is irrelevant and is what Jesus pointed out. People born blind were felt to have somehow deserved it. Jesus said no.
so does this mean if you are of Abrahams seed according to the flesh or converted to "their law" your no good for nada, no seems apparent they just need to be reborn to be of the tribe of Juda through Christ who said "if you don't believe who I say I am you will indeed die in your sins" -the one promised seed who was before Abraham Isaac or Jacob, who is near to all, does this make sense?
This is what Paul clung to, this hope that Jesus seemed to have too, that the people of Judea would accept him, the one who was the Messiah, after all.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
Romans11
Peter imagined that the Jews would accept Jesus as their Messiah, despite already killing him. I suppose that if they had, at this point, there could have been a new system but I don't think so, even if every Jew became Christian, Jesus had no desire to rule the world as a physical king. The spirit was probably actually talking about a spiritual kingdom but phrased in such a way as to be understandable to that audience. It may be that most the converts later gave it up once they came to the realization that there was not going to be an earthly kingdom.
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Acts3
My conclusion after looking at the twenty five verses that use the exact same form of the word Cut, is that it most likely means to be killed with a possible further consequence to the person's descendants having no inheritance or part in any God ordained national government/religion system.
DA 9:17 "Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, O Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, O God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 O Lord, listen! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, hear and act! For your sake, O my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name."
DA 9:20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the LORD my God for his holy hill-- 21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice.
DA 9:24 "Seventy `sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.
It makes no sense to me that you have 70 weeks, then two verses later, it says at 62, the city is destroyed. The Old Greek translation which is probably older than the current Masoretic text, says in verse 26, after the 70 and another 62, then the city is destroyed. So something got switched and I don't think it could have been the Greek that got changed, no way.
I'm fairly certain that it ended in 70 AD, at the latest.
Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by NOTurTypical
yes, that would be the stone rejected by men and the builders I believe
I seriously think I have to go with the Old Greek and discard the "modern" translations other wise, any attempt at an interpretation is worthless
24 Seventy-weeks have been shortened for thy people and upon the holy city, for sins to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring about everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy of Holy Ones. 25 And thou shall know and shall understand, from the going forth of the decree to respond to and to rebuild Jerusalem until Christ, the Prince arrives, shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks, and He will return, and streets will be built, and a wall, * and the seasons will be emptied. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will be destroyed, and there is no judgment therein. And he will destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the Prince Who is to come. And a flood will cut them off, and until the end of the war that has been decreed there will be destruction, which will quickly end. 27 And he will strengthen a covenant with many for one week, and in the middle of the week he will take away sacrifices and drink offerings, and upon the temple there will be an abomination of desolations even until the end of time, and an end will be given for the desolation.
The Holy Orthodox Bible - THE GREEK SEPTUAGINT IN ENGLISH
That was the MT that I was sketching out. I am looking at the Hebrew and I think what it is doing is wording verse 26 in such a way as to have a possible second translation that essentially repeats verse 24. To make it work, you need to make the dates the same which they do by dropping the 70 from the 64. People think I am crazy when I say that verses are designed in the Hebrew to where you can translate it two completely different ways and have it make sense.
Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by jmdewey60
I seriously think I have to go with the Old Greek and discard the "modern" translations other wise, any attempt at an interpretation is worthless
Was that the MT you did the word for word on? The Septuagient is much older than 130AD.
I was focusing mainly on the people rather than numbers and dates.
The ground is anointed with the flood of the blood from the people of the city sanctifying it, while the wars go on for a determined time.
The Bar Kokhba revolt 132–136;[2] Hebrew: מרד בר כוכבא or mered bar kokhba) against the Roman Empire, was the third major rebellion by the Jews of Judaea Province being the last of the Jewish-Roman Wars. Simon bar Kokhba, the commander of the revolt, was acclaimed as a Messiah, a heroic figure who could restore Israel. The revolt established an independent state of Israel over parts of Judea for over two years, but a Roman army made up of six full legions with auxiliaries and elements from up to six additional legions finally crushed it
en.wikipedia.org...
Wow. and you did not want to get into Christianity, yesterday.
So the Bar-Kokhba revolt started 2 years after the MT rework. "City is cleaned by the blood of the slaughtered under Titus! Go! Go! Go! Take possession of the now sanctified city!" I wonder who instigated that? Babylonian scribes or what?
Wow. and you did not want to get into Christianity, yesterday.
I wonder what version the Gospel writers were looking at of Daniel.