One dead and some wounded after Bull fighting

I wish the bull had killed hundreds.
they are sick.

reply to post by buddha


No, just stupid.

I don't know what people expect. The bull scored a few before it got scored on. Bull fighting is cruel. I am glad it got a few people before it died. I hope someday they outlaw it.

Yes it should be outlawed!

You provoke an animal, what do you expect? I have no sympathy for anyone who goes out looking for trouble!

i dont apreciate the sport, to even considering it one.

but i cant help but to cheer for the bull every single time


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It's too bad this doesn't happen more often! We like to think of ourselves as being a civilized race, yet crap involving cruelty to animals is considered "sport" in many parts of the world! Sorry I never watched the video, but I'm pissed off and sickened without having to watch it!

My initial post on this topic was made somewhat in anger and therefore was a little more extreme than my true feelings. I do not want to see people being killed. I do, however believe that the practice of the corrida is cruel and barbaric and has no place in any modern society.

It's a shame really because apart from this I really love Spain and Spanish culture. I've spent a lot of time there over the years and one of my few friends at home in England is a girl of Spanish parents. It's also worth pointing out that there are plenty of Spanish people too who are against it, it's not something followed universally over there by a long way.

I cannot comment on the position of the corridas in Latin America because that part of the world doesn't interest me and I know little about it.

There is no way I am going to WISH that more people got killed.
There's no way I am going to put the life of an animal over a human - especially an animal that I EAT.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
I do, however believe that the practice of the corrida is cruel and barbaric and has no place in any modern society.

I, sometimes, like to watch them (but only for a little time, a full event is too long (around 1.5 and 2 hours, with six bulls)), but only the Portuguese version, with no "picadores" and in which the main idea is for a horseman to try to put some banderillas (from 140 cm to 80 cm long) on the bull's back. This period cannot take longer than 13 minutes, with a warning at 10 minutes and another at 12.


After that, there's the "pega", in which eight man (the "forcados"), try literally to catch the bull by the horns with their hands. This period cannot take longer than minutes, with warnings at two and four minutes.



I understand that this "art" (the fans do not call it a sport, and neither do I) can be seen as cruel, after all they are stabbing the bull with the banderillas (but when done properly the bull doesn't even react and there's very little loss of blood). My main problem with ending it would be with all the things that will disappear if there aren't any bullfights, and the first ones would be the bulls, they are bred just because of the bullfights and it's becoming harder and harder to keep the breed.

Reply to post by ArMaP

you should know that is no excuse.

the people in dubai no longer require camels for transportation, since they are no longe nomadic.
yet that did not make the camels disapear, they still breed them for respect and cultural heritage, they even have started using them for camel races.

im not saying that bullfigthing should ceasse to exist.
but the art could maybe evolve and refine itself a little bit.

there are plenty ways for humans to test and show their might against a bull, harming the bull is not one


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reply to post by AnotherYOU


One of the problems the "ganadarias" (the bull breeders) have been facing for some years is that the lack of "original" bulls makes it difficult to breed fighting bulls (bulls that keep on pursuing whatever is in front of them) because they have to use less pure (from a breeder's point of view) cows, with some bulls being rejected because they are not up to the "race" standards.

But I don't really know if that's true.

reply to post by ArMaP


I'm speaking more specifically about the Corrida de Toros in Spain. The bull is usually killed by having the sword thrust through its neck. Done properly death is instant, but I've seen too much footage of instances where the Matador ("Killer") can misaim by as little as a centimetre, and the spinal chord is missed completely and the sword goes right through its throat, causing considerable suffering until one of the assistants puts it out of its misery.

As far as I am concerned, no civilised person should gain any satisfaction at all from this barbaric spectacle, either as a participant, or as a spectator.

But as I said before, aside from this, I have a great deal of affection for Spain, and Portugal, too, for that matter (though I've only visited Portugal a few times).

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
The bull is usually killed by having the sword thrust through its neck. Done properly death is instant, but I've seen too much footage of instances where the Matador ("Killer") can misaim by as little as a centimetre, and the spinal chord is missed completely and the sword goes right through its throat, causing considerable suffering until one of the assistants puts it out of its misery.

The "estocada" is supposed to reach the heart, through the aorta, they only go for the spinal cord when the original attempt fails.

reply to post by ArMaP


Right, that makes more sense, actually. Still not a very nice way to spend an afternoon though. The Iberian regions have such beautiful, rich cultures, I think they can afford to lose this aspect of it. By the way, is it true that a form of bullfighting is also practised in southern France?

reply to post by NocturnalPhantom


Yes, in some regions of the south of France they also have bullfights.

From what I could find, bloodless, Portuguese style, bullfights happen in the US, under the cover of "religious activities", and in those the "baderillas" are supposed to attach to a Velcro piece attached to the bull's back.

Although bullfights are connected to some religious festivities, I have never seen a religious festivity that needed a bullfight, so I guess that's just a way they found to keep on having bullfights.

reply to post by ArMaP


The bloodless velcro style sounds like a much more humane method. Perhaps that's the way the others should do it, maintaining something of their tradition, and keeping the breeders and bullrings, etc. in business, but without all the cruelty. I find it hard to believe that the idea hasn't already been suggested. Could it just be an inborn bloodlust in some sections of Spanish society? I've known quite a few Spaniards over the years and they certainly seem to have a strange fixation with death (lots of skull imagery, and so on). Just a thought. Is it like that in Portugal?
I spent a month in Castelo Branco once, but the locals there seemed more down to earth.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
Could it just be an inborn bloodlust in some sections of Spanish society?

I think the problem is that they see it more as a mocking of the original bullfight, but I wouldn't have any problem with that version, after all, the better parts (the way the horsemen handle the horses and the horses handle the bull and the way the "forcados" take the bull with their hands doesn't need any iron tips to the banderillas.

I've known quite a few Spaniards over the years and they certainly seem to have a strange fixation with death (lots of skull imagery, and so on). Just a thought. Is it like that in Portugal?

Not really, as far as I know there's a little of that in some small villages, but not on large areas.

Although Portugal and Spain have a similar (and partly common) history, there are some big differences, one of them because of the longer presence of the Moors, so while Portugal had peace for 243 years, Spain still had an enemy inside their natural borders. Also, being a smaller country, the turn to the discoveries of "new lands" on other continents had a bigger effect on society than in Spain.

The Spanish civil war of 1936 to 1939 didn't help them either, their history is a more bloody history than Portugal's.

reply to post by ArMaP


I agree that the horsemanship over there is an amazing spectacle in itself, and I would hate to see that die out. Spain is rather like Britain, not really one, but several countries joined together in a union. Asturias, Catalunya and Andalucia are very different in a lot of ways.

As a Portuguese, you would certainly feel relatively at home in Galicia, though. They have more in common with Portuguese than with Castillians. I would imagine that the fact that you face the Atlantic rather than the Med must also have effects on outlook on the world, not to mention the climate, and therefore agriculture, settlement patterns and things like that.

I find that in Southern Europe, the cultural difference between urban and rural folk is much more pronounced than in northern countries like England. You could spend a whole lifetime just exploring Iberia, and still come across a lot of surprises!

I am all in favour of countries with such a rich culture keeping what they can of them, but I just feel that the way the corrida is done in Spain right now is taking tradition too far for our times.

How can you call it bull fighting when you are sticking swords into it's back and neck? If you are really gonna fight them, fight them with bare hands, then I'll call it a sport.

reply to post by blackrain17


Those are not swords and the ones doing it do not see it as a sport either.