Should National Service Be Re-introduced In Britain?

Originally posted by Dr Expired
reply to post by DevilsApprentice

 

Argue the topic not the poster...or else forums just become name calling gutters.
You have insulted Dr Expired at least twice severely , but have contributed nothing of meaning to the thread.
Debate of an idea requires inteligence not belligerence.

Actually, Dr. Expired, he did argue the topic and did contribute to the thread...it's just that you don't like what he said so you're attacking him - NOT the argument which he put forward.

Pot and kettle come to mind here.

To quote your own words:

Debate of an idea requires intelligenvce not belligerance.

Why not try it?

Good idea.
Do you really want, say, groups of now-well-trained chavs running amuck?
Imagine if the current looters were trained in fighting and tactics...

Originally posted by Dr Expired
reply to post by TheThirdAdam

 

National service doesn't automatically mean serving overseas, it could be used as a home defense guard and ironically be used to keep civil order.
Once the youth realise that they can protect as well as destroy, they may like themselves better.

The military is about destroying. They are taught to kill. One day not too far away, the military in this and other countries will be ordered to attack its own fellow-countrymen, and they will obey. The military are the merceneries of the corporatocracy.

Please educate yourself about what's really going on in the world.


Might I suggest you take just a few short minutes to watch this video: It's John Perkins who was invited to speak at the Veterans for Peace conference in 2006.

CONFESSIONS OF AN ECONOMIC HIT MAN

Originally posted by wcitizen

How about we make it compulsory for our politicians, bankers and corporate leaders to enlist in the military and go on the front line? They are the ones who enjoy the collossal profits from the wars, they are the ones who line their pockets from the deaths of innocent people, they are the greatest criminals on the planet, so let them go and do their own killing.

Oh no, that's what your youth are for - to ruin their lives by becoming mindless killers for these murderous, psychopathic crimiinals which some idiots still look up to as our 'leaders'......endorsed by the likes of you.

No sir .. that's not what this is about I feel . There'll no doubt be exceptions ,after all some young people are far too valuable to attend this little party , who'll take over the leadership of bussiness and government if they're children are lost . No, No , better we just send the children ( punks ) of the poor and working classes to fight our battles for us.



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Originally posted by DevilsApprentice

Originally posted by wcitizen

How about we make it compulsory for our politicians, bankers and corporate leaders to enlist in the military and go on the front line? They are the ones who enjoy the collossal profits from the wars, they are the ones who line their pockets from the deaths of innocent people, they are the greatest criminals on the planet, so let them go and do their own killing.

Oh no, that's what your youth are for - to ruin their lives by becoming mindless killers for these murderous, psychopathic crimiinals which some idiots still look up to as our 'leaders'......endorsed by the likes of you.

No sir .. that's not what this is about I feel . There'll no doubt be exceptions ,after all some young people are far too valuable to attend this little party , who'll take over the leadership of bussiness and government if they're children are lost . No, No , better we just send the children ( punks ) of the poor and working classes to fight our battles for us.



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Exactly. They are only serfs (punks). They're expendable. We can do without them here, we'll just raise the taxes on the rest of the suckers to pay for the wars that keep them enslaved and we'll use their own punks to do it..

Originally posted by subject x
Good idea.
Do you really want, say, groups of now-well-trained chavs running amuck?
Imagine if the current looters were trained in fighting and tactics...

Yes , I posted those very same arguements in the " Londons BURNING " thread

Would still like to hear what plans those in favour of NS have re: employment opprtunities, housing , welfare etc. for these kids after their tour .

Yes but only for people convicted of a crime or antisocial behaviour under 21.

They get 2 years national service for looting, graffiti, mugging etc.

Anyone 21 or over goes to prison.
As it is now, an ASBO or whatever theyve replaced it with is seen as a badge of honour, they want to get into trouble.
The thought of 2 years in the army would have them scared #less.

Originally posted by subject x
Good idea.
Do you really want, say, groups of now-well-trained chavs running amuck?
Imagine if the current looters were trained in fighting and tactics...

The point is 2 years in the army would teach them discipline and another way of life. It would also break up their social circle as well.

They might even get qualifications or decided to join the army full time.

Originally posted by Flyer
The thought of 2 years in the army would have them scared #less.

Or they become resentful and filled with yet more desire to inflict pain and suffering on the general population

Do you have any thoughts on this.

Would still like to hear what plans those in favour of NS have re: employment opprtunities, housing , welfare etc. for these kids after their tour .

Originally posted by Flyer

Originally posted by subject x
Good idea.
Do you really want, say, groups of now-well-trained chavs running amuck?
Imagine if the current looters were trained in fighting and tactics...

The point is 2 years in the army would teach them discipline and another way of life. It would also break up their social circle as well.

They might even get qualifications or decided to join the army full time.

Exactly. This is the point. Re-programming or programming.

NO WAY WILL I EVER LET MY CHILDREN DO ANYTHING THIS GOD FORSAKEN SH**HOLE OF A COUNTRY AFTER WHAT THE POLICE AND GOVERNMENT HAVE CAUSED IN THIS COUNTRY THEY CAN GO TO HELL AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED AND WILL BE TEACHING MY KIDS WHAT EXCACTLY THIS WHOLE SICK COUNTRY IS ABOUT clear enough for you

I dont think national service would be necessary, you will punish the good ones along with the bad that way. Certainly not 3 years. NS is an outdated concept which brings more bad than good.

All what is needed is to stop giving criminals more rights than the victims, in the name of modern pseudohumanism and political correctness.

Why wasnt the police using all necessary measures required to restore order in the first day of riots, when it was immidiately clear softer methods were not sufficient? Why were they only considering the use of rubber bullets and water cannons after three days of continuing riots?
Why wasnt the army deployed to the streets when police failed to restore order?

I was around at the time shortly before National Service was discontinued. And i can

tell you the boys actually looked forward to going into one of the three services. And

young as i was at the time can remember the 'maturity' with which they returned at the

completion of their service. I sum it up by saying 'they went in as BOY's and came out

as MEN ' the difference was palable.

National service is not the way to go but Boot Camp sure is for many of these young adults. Keep in mind some of these arrested are from middle class families and those aleady with fulltime jobs like teachers, postmen, etc including university students that surprised me more than those who are unemployed.

Originally posted by DevilsApprentice

Or they become resentful and filled with yet more desire to inflict pain and suffering on the general population

Do you have any thoughts on this.

yes, they go back to prison for a very long time, theyve had their chance at achieving something and if they refuse, they deserve to rot away in prison.

Watched a programme on TV last night in which a reporter was interviewing four or

five of the young looters. They had hoods on and their faces completely covered by

scarves. The answers they gave him for why they did it was an 'eye opener' one

said it was an early x'mas present so he could watch his new plasma in bed! another

wanted the latest trainers and track suits! another just loved the experience, and the one

that took the biscuit for me was a SIXTEEN year old who stole nappies and kids stuff

including Johnsons baby toiletries ( yes he mentioned the trade name) for HIS INFANT

CHILD....................There you go CHILDREN HAVING CHILDREN.

Originally posted by TheMaverick
What needs to happen ,is to give back the power to the parents to discipline their children ,without threats of having social services or threats of children suing there parents.

More power to the parents is the answers..

The do Gooders are wrong ,they gave these kids to much power ,and they believe the world owes them a living.

When i was 8 years old ,i stole £5 from my mothers purse ,and my father turn up in the park were i was with my friends ,and search me ,found the £5 and gave me a slap in front of my friends and dragged me home ,i never ever touched my mothers purse ever again ,even to this day ,i won't even touch my wife's purse from the hard lesson i learn as a kid from the good hiding my dad gave me ,infact i never stole ever again.

i know most of these kids don't have fathers anymore ,but still the power need to be given back to the parents.

HEAR HEAR!!!!!

Not just power to discipline though but start teaching all school children that it is OK to feel pain for fellow humans, that compassion is GOOD, that hugging your parents goodbye is OK, that crying... openly... even if you are male is FINE...

I am appalled at the number of Dads I hear at the school gates telling their primary aged sons "Come on now, you're a big boy lets not kiss and cuddle" I have 3 sons, one is 17 and the youngest is 8... they ALL hug and kiss both me and my husband and say "I love you" in front their peers... they all cry openly if the need arises and they are all appalled and saddened by what has happened across England recently.

There is something very wrong if when you are about to do something vile and aggressive that voice in your head doesn't shout out "STOP! What are you doing? Think how the people will feel!"

To be so compassionless and so lacking in empathy shows a callous apathy that has been bred into our children for years and needs to stop!

Yes punish the child when it has done wrong but remember to show your children LOVE not only for the family but also for themselves and their fellow humans.

I for one would protest very very much to any National Subscription.

Originally posted by bauldrick
NO WAY WILL I EVER LET MY CHILDREN DO ANYTHING THIS GOD FORSAKEN SH**HOLE OF A COUNTRY AFTER WHAT THE POLICE AND GOVERNMENT HAVE CAUSED IN THIS COUNTRY THEY CAN GO TO HELL AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED AND WILL BE TEACHING MY KIDS WHAT EXCACTLY THIS WHOLE SICK COUNTRY IS ABOUT clear enough for you

Hard not to be with all the font size!

I have to correct you though on one tiny thing.... it isn't 'THE COUNTRY' that is 'sick' that you are cross with, it is politics and the government you are angry with, the country changes as the 'leaders' change.

I take it you vote? If not then count yourself responsible for the current government... if you do vote then I presume you voted Labour?

You also seem VERY agitated and angry at 'something' that you aren't even sure of... This is exactly how the 'rioters' are expressing themselves. Lots of LOUD NOISES and nonsensical remarks about who is to blame and why.

The 'sickness' you refer to is as I said above... years and years of loveless parenting.

As far as the compulsory NS is concerned though I heartily agree with you. There is no way my Sons would be permitted to be called up.

National Service should NOT be looked on as a form of punishment but as a progression

(a sort of right of passage) a bridge from boy to man. As i said in my previous post the boy's

i knew actually looked forward to doing their National Service a bit like school leavers now

look on going to uni.. And lets face it not 100% of youth benefit from uni

reply to post by eletheia



I agree, I don't see it as punishment either. I would hazzard a guess the men of year passed looked forward to it as they knew IF they were ever called up it would be for a legal legitimate war... not the ego boosting mess our leaders keep getting us into lately.

But my maternal family have been a long line of conscientious objectors and I hold the same feelings as my ancestors.

My Daddy on the other hand signed up for the army at just 14 by forging his ID and claiming to be 16... this was back in 1941. He wasn't about to let his older brother go to war alone.