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Quit drinking Ron Paul kool-aid: What are the NEGATIVE consequences to switching to Gold Standard?

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posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Rockdisjoint
 


Sorry i do not agree that fiat money is the problem.
Back in 1929 we were on a gold standard but it did not prevent a collapse and the first great depression.

The fed does not expand the money supply in a normal market, that is done through supply and demand, people want to buy that house because prices only rise, they went deeper in debt, and the banks commited massive fraud to profit from the situation in housing market.
The value of the house will be higher next year so whats the risk?
I'm sure you have heared of the ninja loans?

There was money created through mortgage loans with the house as collateral, but it was fake value in the housing market because everyone thought the prises could only go up.
They did not, and when the housing market collapsed, the banks were in trouble, leaving them with mortgages that were declining in value, they lost money on it and thus were on the brink of collapsing.
Untill then the Federal Reserve had not created money, but it started to do so to recapitalize the banks and buy those mortgages.

I don't know what would have happened if they weren't bailed out.
The important thing i guess is that glass steagal should not have been repealed and thus allow investmentbanks to fail while public banks remain safe.

So to your last question my answer would be glass steagal, and i am stunned by the mortgage fraud, foreclosure fraud, and banks being able to settle for millions while they make billions.




posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by earthling42
 



Sorry i do not agree that fiat money is the problem.
Back in 1929 we were on a gold standard but it did not prevent a collapse and the first great depression.


Fiat money is exactly the problem. The gold standard did not prevent collapse precisely because they ignored it and printed more dollars then they had gold so they could go on a spending spree. Fiat money was created to get around the fact that you can't spend gold like a drunken sailor becuase you can't print it. You actually have to keep a balanced budget. The federal reserve act (by fiat or government decree) had been in effect for nearly 20 years and giving the Banking cartel a monopoly on the currency with no oversight hence the gold standard may as well have been non-existent. This is why it is important to have a free market in currency and no government intervention or control over the money supply. www.abovetopsecret.com...


The fed does not expand the money supply in a normal market, that is done through supply and demand,


The feds expand the money supply any time congress asks that is how we got in this mess. They do it because it means more interest will be due the fed every time they loan money into circulation. It is nonsense that they only do it when the market demands it! They can't predict the market demands anyway.


I don't know what would have happened if they weren't bailed out.
The important thing i guess is that glass steagal should not have been repealed and thus allow investment banks to fail while public banks remain safe.


You are right they should not have repealed Glass Steagal however by so doing they prolonged the collapse allowing them to increase credit expansion much faster and more prolific but will make the collapse all the more worse. Had they left it in place we would have had the collapse already and be working our way out.


So to your last question my answer would be glass steagal, and i am stunned by the mortgage fraud, foreclosure fraud, and banks being able to settle for millions while they make billions.


That's what happens when you have the politically protected corporations running the game with the politicians in their pockets



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by byteshertz



Complete nonsense. You could have Jesus himself controlling the money supply and central banking would still be a disaster.


Agreed, it is flawed by it's very design due to interest (and money money iteself) being created out of thin air through loands and also banks being aloud to lend more than they have.
As for your claim producing more quanities of money is counterfeiting - not when it is authorised by law, and the banks are legally given the right to steal the value of money they print from the money that is currently in circulation through inflation.



You can not print gold.

Complete BS, ever heard of gold leaf?



More nonsense. My mom doesn't go to work everyday to get dollars, she goes to work to be able to purchase goods and services. Money is the means to allow indirect exchange. So the supply of money doesn't need to grow at all, and any growth of a paper currency would be nothing but counterfeiting.

Please explain what inflation is if you do not believe the value of a currency is determined by how much is in circulation.



Or maybe you just need to understand his position on money.

I do understand it very well, he has many good ideas and is 10x more educated than anyone else i have seen running but he is step in the right direction - no one man is the direction.



Our money is issued by our govt, the Fed is a part of our govt-- the Fed being private is just socialist propaganda. 95% of the Feds profits are returned to the U.S treasury, the other 5% are use for operating cost.

Are you serious? Slap yourself - According to the Board of Governors "its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government."
- When is the last time the Fed was audited, it is a profit making enterprise that does not have to answer to anyone else. Sure the president gets to choose the head - but thats the same deal the people get... and we all know what a scam that is.




LOL! No. You have no clue what you're talking about.

Nice OPINION - full of facts I see.




This currently isn't happening. In fact I wish the Fed was private, then it would at least have an incentive to keep inflation low and the economy running much smoother.


[size=4 ]
- “Lewis v. United States 680” (Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned: “…we conclude that the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA (Federal Tort Claims Act), but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.” Lewis v United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (9th Cir. 1982). In other words, the Fed enjoys no United States immunity from law suit because it is a Federal institution in name only. ( nesara.org... and www.geocities.com...)



[size=7 ]BURN

edit on 12-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


The Federal Reserve or any other central bank is a lender of last resort, to banks, not to governments.
If concress can have the money supply expanded at will, there is something fundamentally wrong.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by byteshertz
 



Complete BS, ever heard of gold leaf?

Mhm. I never knew you could print golden leaves.



Please explain what inflation is if you do not believe the value of a currency is determined by how much is in circulation.

Maybe you didn't understand my post, my definition of inflation is an increase in the money supply.



I do understand it very well, he has many good ideas and is 10x more educated than anyone else i have seen running but he is step in the right direction - no one man is the direction.

You said that Ron Paul needs to reexamine his position on money, what is his position according to you?



Are you serious? Slap yourself - According to the Board of Governors "its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government." - When is the last time the Fed was audited, it is a profit making enterprise that does not have to answer to anyone else. Sure the president gets to choose the head - but thats the same deal the people get... and we all know what a scam that is.

I'm 100% serious. Just because the president, congress and a majority of the American people don't care what the Fed does, doesn't mean it doesn't have to answer to anyone. A lack of interest doesn't mean a lack of control and congress fully controls the Fed.



Nice OPINION - full of facts I see.

Really?! You need me to explain why central banking is bad? In all seriousness, why do you want to end the Fed if you support central banking? That makes no sense to me.



- “Lewis v. United States 680” (Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned: “

I don't care what anyone says, it is impossible for a govt created entity to be private. A monopoly is a special privilege that can only be granted by the govt, what the govt grants can easily be taken away. The Fed is no different than any other govt creation.



BURN

Burn what? :/
edit on 12-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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Maybe you didn't understand my post, my definition of inflation is an increase in the money supply.

but you said..


any growth of a paper currency would be nothing but counterfeiting.

We have inflation , we have growth of the money supply - but this is legalised so it is therefore not counterfeiting.
Inflation (%ΔP) is equal to the rate of money growth (%ΔM), plus the change in velocity (%ΔV), minus the rate of output growth (%ΔQ).



You said that Ron Paul needs to reexamine his position on money, what is his position according to you?


Lets let the man talk for himself




I'm 100% serious. Just because the president, congress and a majority of the American people don't care what the Fed does, doesn't mean it doesn't have to answer to anyone. A lack of interest doesn't mean a lack of control and congress fully controls the Fed.


Any links to back this up or does you not caring what anyone says (mentioned in prev post) mean you don't need facts from anything besides your own understanding?



Really?! You need me to explain why central banking is bad? In all seriousness, why do you want to end the Fed if you support central banking? That makes no sense to me.
I have no issue with central banking, one bank loaning another bank is fine by me - I have an issue with fractional reserve banking, banks being aloud to legally lend many times more than what they have, and creating new money out of thin air.



I don't care what anyone says, it is impossible for a govt created entity to be private. A monopoly is a special privilege that can only be granted by the govt, what the govt grants can easily be taken away. The Fed is no different than any other govt creation.

You don't care what anyone else says? I just gave you a link to a court ruling directly contradicting what you were saying and you still think your opinion which you have yet to back with anything external is superior... "Dont care what anyone else says" - pft what are you doing here then?


it is impossible for a govt created entity to be private
- Obviously not, as I just gave you solid evidence of a court ruling this was The federal reserve is private corporation and they didnt create themselves now did they.. Many corporations around the world start as government owned - many telecommunications, transportation and even health companies etc start as goverment owned and then get changed to privately owned.

edit on 12-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by byteshertz
 



We have inflation , we have growth of the money supply - but this is legalised so it is therefore not counterfeiting.

Just because it's legal, it doesn't make it right. Slavery use to be legal too.



Any links to back this up or does you not caring what anyone says (mentioned in prev post) mean you don't need facts from anything besides your own understanding?

I shouldn't need any links to back this up. It's obvious, without the govt the Fed could not exist. It's that simple. If you can prove to me that a central bank would occur on the free market, I will take back everything I've said.



I have no issue with central banking, one bank loaning another bank is fine by me - I have an issue with fractional reserve banking, banks being aloud to legally lend many times more than what they have, and creating new money out of thin air.

You're okay with the govt doing it though? Central banking is the problem here.



You don't care what anyone else says? I just gave you a link to a court ruling directly contradicting what you were saying and you still think your opinion which you have yet to back with anything external is superior... "Dont care what anyone else says" - pft what are you doing here then?

Maybe we use different definitions of private, how do you define private?



Obviously not, as I just gave you solid evidence of a court ruling this was The federal reserve is private corporation and they didnt create themselves now did they.. Many corporations around the world start as government owned - many telecommunications, transportation and even health companies etc start as goverment owned and then get changed to privately owned.

How come I can't open up my own central bank then? If it was private I should be able to compete with it, how come I can't?
edit on 12-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by byteshertz
 





We have inflation , we have growth of the money supply - but this is legalised so it is therefore not counterfeiting.
Just because it's legal, it doesn't make it right. Slavery use to be legal too.

No it doesnt make it morally right - but if a crime is legalised it is legal. We obviously both agree that the system is a scam, a fraud and flawed, we just dont agree on the reasons why.



I shouldn't need any links to back this up. It's obvious, without the govt the Fed could not exist. It's that simple. If you can prove to me that a central bank would occur on the free market, I will take back everything I've said.

If it's so obvious you should have any trouble providing some facts or evidence to back it up.
You are asking me to show you a central bank would occur without the govenment - which I never claimed was possible - if you read my previous post I said the government can create private corporations it's called privatisation.

Privatisation: is the incidence or process of transferring ownership of a business, enterprise, agency or public service from the public sector (the state or government) to the private sector (businesses that operate for a private profit) or to private non-profit organizations.



You're okay with the govt doing it though? Central banking is the problem here.

Why would I have any issues with a legal entitiy in any form including government lending to another something that it owns? I only have an issue when they lend something they can take from people any time they like. You say the central banking system flawed but you dont explain why.



Maybe we use different definitions of private, how do you define private?

Im not even going to go down the symantics road - It doesnt matter what my definition of private is, the law see's the fedral reserve as a private corporation - no matter if you or I think this is morally right or wrong it is what it is.



How come I can't open up my own central bank then? If it was private I should be able to compete with it, how come I can't?
edit on 12-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)


Because like everything else you need government approval first. before you open a shop you need zoning approval, licesnses etc. Like with everything else if the Governement feels their is too much competition in any particular area they stop you from being able to aquire the required approval
edit on 12-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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dbl post
edit on 12-8-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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How the gold standard used to work is people would bring their gold to a federal or state mint and weigh the gold and put a seal of approval on it so people would know it was a solid ounce of pure gold. The state in this case was only the seal of approval and not the creator of bad fiat.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by saabacura
 


"But he never talks about what the negative consequences of changing our monetary system from current to gold."

You want him to predict the future?.. absurd.

A volatile market will decide.. like everything in life, some good.. some bad.. nobody can know for certain.

Don't fear the unknown so much, growth comes from pain.. builds character too, embrace it... in case you haven't noticed, current "leadership"..so called.. is an epic fail in progress.

I wouldn't vote for Ron Paul though.. endorsing a GOP or DNC candidate is like splattering blood on your soul... they both perpetuate needless death/occupation based on lies.. and the "rule of law" is a guideline to them, carved in stone when it applies to us.

"Officer.. I was speeding in the past, lets follow obamas advice and focus on the future.. besides, it's not like I tortured anyone, enacted the PATRIOT act, stole an election or lied 2 wars into being..geez"



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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Yes the system that has been in place throughout human history is wrong and worthless paper printed at the whim of a private central bank is the right way to do things! Its not like AMERICA ever used anything else but paper money! Who cares if it only leads to enslavement and depression. Who cares if the wealth of the hard working people can be whiped out over night while lining the pockets of the super rich. If you dont believe that private out of control banking systems are the right way to go you are obviously a Ron Paul Koolaid drinker! You must be crazy! A nut! How dare you think that GOLD has value?!

The 6 people that flagged this thread need their heads examined.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:10 AM
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Another Tard who hasn't even bothered to educate oneself about how the monetary system works nor how the transition to a gold standard would be accomplished.

Instead of bashing policies you don't even understand, why don't you just educate yourself so you don't sound so sophomoric.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by byteshertz
 



If it's so obvious you should have any trouble providing some facts or evidence to back it up. You are asking me to show you a central bank would occur without the govenment - which I never claimed was possible

Exactly, if something can not occur on the market it's a govt creation. Privatization is fine with me, but privatization hasn't happened here. If it had the Fed wouldn't be dependent on the govt for survival.



if you read my previous post I said the government can create private corporations it's called privatisation.

Do you consider the EPA, SEC, CIA, USDA, ACF and FDA private too? They have very little oversight and some of them even get to write laws.



Why would I have any issues with a legal entitiy in any form including government lending to another something that it owns? I only have an issue when they lend something they can take from people any time they like. You say the central banking system flawed but you dont explain why.

That isn't what central banking is.


A central bank, reserve bank, or monetary authority is a public institution that usually issues the currency, regulates the money supply, and controls the interest rates in a country. Central banks often also oversee the commercial banking system of their respective countries. In contrast to a commercial bank, a central bank possesses a monopoly on printing the national currency, which usually serves as the nation's legal tender. en.wikipedia.org...


Given the fact that money is one half of every commercial transaction and that nations literally rise and fall on the quality of their money, giving a select few people such an awesome power is pretty absurd to me. Central banking didn't work in the past, it isn't working now and it won't work in the future.



Im not even going to go down the symantics road - It doesnt matter what my definition of private is, the law see's the fedral reserve as a private corporation - no matter if you or I think this is morally right or wrong it is what it is.

It doesn't matter what the law says, the Fed is a govt agency. In fact the Feds charter is up for renewal in 2013, why does a ``private corporation`` need permission from congress to continue doing its job?



Because like everything else you need government approval first. before you open a shop you need zoning approval, licesnses etc. Like with everything else if the Governement feels their is too much competition in any particular area they stop you from being able to aquire the required approval

The Fed faces no competition though, just like every other govt agency. There is only one central bank in the U.S.
edit on 13-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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edit on 13-8-2011 by e11888 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:19 AM
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The thread title is all messed up.

It should read "What are the consequences of not returning to a Gold standard?"

Oh wait.... we already know.





Over 14 trillion in debt and still ticking.

Politicians cannot print gold and devalue your money.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by e11888
 


LOL... what is your problem?? I wasn't even responding to you! I support Ron Paul and sound money. I've supported Ron Paul since 1988. Folks like you have been the biggest stumbling block for Dr. Paul... going off half cocked and full of anger... get a grip and relax! You've obviously only just gotten on board, my friend. I've been disowned by my father for supporting Ron Paul when I was 17 years old. I've heard it all... been called everything under the sun and you know what?... I always keep my head, listen to what people have to say and defeat them with their own flawed logic.

Stop yelling and ranting and try to help the cause with a calm, sound mind. you should go back and read your own post my friend... it doesn't even make sense. That's what is hurting Ron Paul.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by zacdam
reply to post by e11888
 


LOL... what is your problem?? I wasn't even responding to you! I support Ron Paul and sound money. I've supported Ron Paul since 1988. Folks like you have been the biggest stumbling block for Dr. Paul... going off half cocked and full of anger... get a grip and relax! You've obviously only just gotten on board, my friend. I've been disowned by my father for supporting Ron Paul when I was 17 years old. I've heard it all... been called everything under the sun and you know what?... I always keep my head, listen to what people have to say and defeat them with their own flawed logic.

Stop yelling and ranting and try to help the cause with a calm, sound mind. you should go back and read your own post my friend... it doesn't even make sense. That's what is hurting Ron Paul.


You didnt exactly reply to anyone and your post was directly below mine so yea... this is the internet afterall. Edited out then if it wasnt directed towards me.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:41 AM
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It will cause the rich to hoard money? Where have you been? I mean really, have you not seen the current wealth distribution? Even when the rich invest their money, it will not be nearly all of it, it does not help most people, but serves only to make the rich richer. If you have believe anything else you have been lied to.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 


Nothing causes the rich to hoard their money other than their own greed. Don't allow yourself to be stunted with those notions and start looking into HOW it can be accomplished rather than why it can't. In the true spirit of ATS... don't you believe that propaganda would be perpetrated by those who benefit the most from the current situation? It is, was and will be for as long as we continue looking at what they say CAN"T be done...




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