Christain or not; Mark of the Beast parable is playing out now and you've already got it.

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["And you have your own self proclaimed authority that says the opposite, it is one opinion against another. Your throw away line is tiresome and hypocritical."]

Nope, it's one set of applied reasoning-method against another set of applied reasoning-method.

In my version of a reasoning-method saying NO to self-proclaimed authority doesn't make me an authority. Just as if I say NO to manifested idological fascism (e.g. nazism or the ideology behind the inquisition) doesn't make me a fascist.

This direction of semantic quibblings are however beyond the scope of this thread, and on my part the EXTENT into that blind alley ends here.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["And you have your own self proclaimed authority that says the opposite, it is one opinion against another. Your throw away line is tiresome and hypocritical."]

Nope, it's one set of applied reasoning-method against another set of applied reasoning-method.

In my version of a reasoning-method saying NO to self-proclaimed authority doesn't make me an authority. Just as if I say NO to manifested idological fascism (e.g. nazism or the ideology behind the inquisition) doesn't make me a fascist.

This direction of semantic quibblings are however beyond the scope of this thread, and on my part the EXTENT into that blind alley ends here.

edit on 13-8-2011 by bogomil because: syntax

You are your own authority and you have your own opinion.

I am likewise the same, I just believe that someone else (Jesus) has greater authority than me.

You are right about one thing, the blind alley.

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["And you have your own self proclaimed authority that says the opposite, it is one opinion against another. Your throw away line is tiresome and hypocritical."]

Nope, it's one set of applied reasoning-method against another set of applied reasoning-method.

In my version of a reasoning-method saying NO to self-proclaimed authority doesn't make me an authority. Just as if I say NO to manifested idological fascism (e.g. nazism or the ideology behind the inquisition) doesn't make me a fascist.

This direction of semantic quibblings are however beyond the scope of this thread, and on my part the EXTENT into that blind alley ends here.

edit on 13-8-2011 by bogomil because: syntax

You are your own authority and you have your own opinion.

I am likewise the same, I just believe that someone else (Jesus) has greater authority than me.

You are right about one thing, the blind alley.

Take all this to a forum on philosophy, where it belongs.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["And you have your own self proclaimed authority that says the opposite, it is one opinion against another. Your throw away line is tiresome and hypocritical."]

Nope, it's one set of applied reasoning-method against another set of applied reasoning-method.

In my version of a reasoning-method saying NO to self-proclaimed authority doesn't make me an authority. Just as if I say NO to manifested idological fascism (e.g. nazism or the ideology behind the inquisition) doesn't make me a fascist.

This direction of semantic quibblings are however beyond the scope of this thread, and on my part the EXTENT into that blind alley ends here.

edit on 13-8-2011 by bogomil because: syntax

You are your own authority and you have your own opinion.

I am likewise the same, I just believe that someone else (Jesus) has greater authority than me.

You are right about one thing, the blind alley.

Take all this to a forum on philosophy, where it belongs.

You would do well to pay a visit there also.

Revelation 13:18
This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the beast’s number, for it is man’s number, and his number is 666.

1 Kings 10:14
The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents,

Whoever owns Jerusalem, they are the Beast.

Originally posted by bogomil
Not everyone evaluates the overall situation exclusively based on the premises of a circle-argumented mythological manual with self-proclaimed authority.

Is this so hard to understand?

But this is the Theology forum, designed for that very purpose.
Is that so hard to understand?

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by bogomil
Not everyone evaluates the overall situation exclusively based on the premises of a circle-argumented mythological manual with self-proclaimed authority.

Is this so hard to understand?

But this is the Theology forum, designed for that very purpose.
Is that so hard to understand?

Each thread is limited by the perimeters of the topic. It's not a general invitation for preaching widely outside that.

Originally posted by bogomil
Each thread is limited by the perimeters of the topic. It's not a general invitation for preaching widely outside that.

I was discussing the identity of the Mark of the Beast mentioned in Revelation, which is the topic of this thread.
Criticising Bible-based talk for being Bible-based talk, on the other hand, is outside the parameters of the topic.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by bogomil
Each thread is limited by the perimeters of the topic. It's not a general invitation for preaching widely outside that.

I was discussing the identity of the Mark of the Beast mentioned in Revelation, which is the topic of this thread.
Criticising Bible-based talk for being Bible-based talk, on the other hand, is outside the parameters of the topic.

With all due respect. I'm not interested in further semantic acrobatics.

reply to post by MitchL61


I guess the thing is.. I don't find a face/thumb scan that generates a man's "number" which is used to control purchasing, travel etc. being a very big trick on the part of the lord. It seems to logically fullfill the expressed purpose of the mark. I don't see this as being tricky.

But i think once people go for the first purchase with a face scan it might start to make a bit more sense. But will it be too late at this point? Maybe not for those that have been even a bit vigilant.

I don't see the trick. Seems extremely obvious to me. You need to understand the PRACTICAL manifestation of the end times. How it will look. Should we assume in the end times we will all have long beards and robes because that's what people during the times of revelations wore? You need to use your critical thinking. A tool God provided you.

I am on the lookout for a global, widely used system to control purchases. I wouldn't be waiting around for a chip because this is what people 30 years ago, given the context and understanding of technology of the time, assumed the mark would be. I'm pretty sure they didn't mention a chip in revelations. The important info is a broadly accepted way of control people's purchases where their hand and face are involved with identifying and authenticating/allowing the purchase.

We know now a chip is NOT needed. Nor is a physical modification of ANY kind. This is where we are at. There is no need for a physical modification so if they now attempted to physically modify everyone in the world we would know it was "bad" because technically it makes absolutely no sense... So the person/organization/government body promoting such a thing would be doing it simply to make people believe it was THE mark and not because it worldly terms it makes more sense than a face scan. People need to be aware of the time we are living in and how these revelations might play out. I can guarentee that the mark will NOT be a physical mod. And that a face scan/thumb scan is COMPLETELY inline with the description of the mark. Especially when it is rolled out for purchases and EVERY possible kind of need for identification. They will never revert to a physical mod. Makes no sense technically, logistically, financially.

And i think that if you use the internet, have credit cards, a cell phone then it will be your responsibility to understand how these things can be part of an evolution of things that will lead to a global identification system that will be used for evil.

It's nice to believe that we are not already participating in what is evil. But if you are totally committed to God i think some of this is totally obvious. Believe me, i am not saved. But for whatever reason, by God's grace i can be honest about where i sit in terms of eternity... I am living a convenient life, where i am protected by a system from poverty, war.. and by not actively working at any cost, for those less fortunate, i am not living Jesus's way. And one of the consequences of not living his way is a clouded discernment of how far away i am from him.

For everyone claiming God wouldn't trick us.. i say, YOU would trick you. Not God. Point is people are and will take the mark.. and the only reason they will take it is because they cannot see the consequences. If they understood the consequences they would not take it. WHO would? So those people will be cursing God. Why? Because they will not feel it is fair. They will feel like God tricked them or God is responsible for their suffering. He is not. They are. We are responsible for being pure, for being aware, for denying worldly systems like a global identification system. Not God. He is already free of them and if you are doing his will you are as well. I just don't see how me owning a computer while others are starving to death is following God's will. I am compromising what i know is right by participating on the level i am already participating. Everyone wants there to be some easy moment when you get to deny the mark.. But if you wait for it it will be too late and you may be the one cursing God.. Claiming to have loved him and didn't know. You know.

We know when we see a global identification system for use with buying and selling that it is evil, of man and used by the beast system as describe and explained to us in revelations.

reply to post by rwfresh

For everyone claiming God wouldn't trick us.. i say, YOU would trick you. Not God.

I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you were trying to say. But I think I do now, and I agree with you in part. I certainly think it is up to us individually to look for the signs of the antichrist. The scriptures say that in the latter days, men's hearts shall fail them because of fear, but those who are looking for the return of Christ, and are living righteously, and understand what's going on, shall not be afraid. So I do think the onus is on us to know our scriptures and to study them so that we do recognize the sign of the beast when it is here. However, that being said, I still feel that most, if not everyone, will know it is the sign of the beast, but will either choose not to believe that is what it is, or will not have the courage or testimony to resist it. I do not profess to have all the answers, but in my heart, I feel there will come a time when food will be under the control of the governments, and in order to obtain food, one will be required to have the mark. Only those who have prepared for this time, by maintaining an emergency food storage, will be able to survive without the mark. If they have not prepared, then they may be forced to decide whether to starve to death, or receive the mark. I could be way off base, but from what I am seeing, I certainly think this is a plausible scenario. Therefore, I would admonish everyone to do two important things: save a years supply of food and water for yourself and your family, and increase your own personal testimony of Jesus Christ, so that we may abide the day.

reply to post by MitchL61


Hey Brother.. You are right to point out that preaching fear rather than Love whom is God is not God's will. I think some of my messages come off as being aggressive and maybe fearful. Truth is, trusting in God/Love is the absolute best way to avoid the mark.. whatever it might be.

It just happens to be a biometric scan I'm just kidding around.. but do continue to choose love over fear!

reply to post by Gakus

its ok to believe what you want, but you are wrong

reply to post by rwfresh


you are allowed to think want you will, but its incorrect! I'm directly connected to God. people are making their choices as to where they stand. dispite what you propose.

Originally posted by skydog801
reply to post by rwfresh

 

you are allowed to think want you will, but its incorrect! I'm directly connected to God. people are making their choices as to where they stand. dispite what you propose.

What i proposed didn't negate the reality of people choosing where they stand. Nor did i question your direct connection to God, or connection to me for that matter. People are choosing everyday. Sometimes people are pointing themselves towards the ocean but years later end up in the mountains. To be fully aware of our choices and the infinite effects of those potential choices is a real trick.

No where in my original post did i propose that this was being tricked onto people. But i am quite sure people might be surprised to find out what it might mean to them personally.

From the reaction i am guessing most are expecting the event to be extremely obvious, extremely out of the ordinary and extremely dramatic.

Just remember that in hell it's not uncommon to find fire... so rushing to dump a pail of water on a fire is reserved for the new guys.

reply to post by rwfresh


The one hole in your theory is this, the mark has to be ACCEPTED. All the marks youre talking about, facial marks, thumb prints iris scans (eye scan) etc. youre born with. The mark of the beast must be a choice made of free will, that you accept it. So it is something given, an object maybe,barcode tatoo, sub dermal microship. Something that prevents you from buying or selling if you do not have it.

California has already required animal owners to "tag" their pets with microships. The way things go is we start with animals first to see if its safe (reference to the space program, using animals and seeing if they came back dead and adjusted accordingly).

It's not going to be thumbprint, facial prints/scan or ocular scans. Faiths believe it is going to be in your mind or in your heart, a choice given and a choice being made. Perhaps it could be the literal heart or brain itself, some sort of chip.

Ultimately youre never going to know until that moment comes when "they" come after you. No point scaring yourselves to death in the mean time.

One misconception many believe about the beast is that they will know who he is before he claims the throne of God in the rebuilt temple mount. You WILL NOT know who he is until he comes out of the "closet". Events take place in order. Temple gets rebuilt>Beast says "i am God"> accept me or die> he starts rounding up christians and gives them the choice to take the mark or suffer an agonizing death. He will be Pro-Israel right up until he stabs them in the back and sits on God's throne.

So theres no point even bothering to worry about any of this. Obviously if youre not christian, jew or muslim youre going to take his mark, because you wont have the strength faith gives to spit in his face and die an honorable death.

So, case in point. No need to worry until Temple of Solomon gets rebuilt. Hasnt happened yet and isnt going to for a while. Best thing you can do is keep a wary eye to jerusalem, and head for the hills when some political or religious leader says lets go rebuild the Temple and pushed the muslims out of all Israel. When that happens the SHTF and its time to go find a cozy place somewhere in northern canada FAR away from civilization.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by rwfresh

 

The one hole in your theory is this, the mark has to be ACCEPTED. All the marks youre talking about, facial marks, thumb prints iris scans (eye scan) etc. youre born with. The mark of the beast must be a choice made of free will, that you accept it. So it is something given, an object maybe,barcode tatoo, sub dermal microship. Something that prevents you from buying or selling if you do not have it.

I'm sorry, was i born with a generated Hash from a face scan? No. No one was. Look, I've been trying to explain this in a number of exhaustive posts. I think the problem is many people don't understand what i mean when i say a generated HASH/NUMBER/ID. It has to do with converting the picture of your face or hand into an index-able number (really it's a long combo of numbers and characters. In simple terms, your face or hand when scanned will generate a number that represents you and only you. This is how it works. The software does not compare pixel by pixel what it's looking at. All it does is generate a number. That number is yours and is associated to your accounts. Just like a credit card number. The difference is, the hash/id/number is uniquely generated from your face/hand as opposed to randomly or sequentially generated by a computer.

So you do have the choice of excepting this or not. Your choice will be to allow your bank, government, credit card company to generate the hash. Of course they will not explain it to you in this way. Why would they? It's a technical issue that doesn't mean anything unless you look at what the hell it is! So your credit card company will ask you to get a NEW biometric card which will include hand and or face scan generated ID's. For a while they may even continue to issue cards and papers which include the biometric info. But the problem is, once the scan is done you can be identified along with ALL of your info from any picture or video. The convenience of the biometric card will be that you no longer actually need to carry the card.

California has already required animal owners to "tag" their pets with microships. The way things go is we start with animals first to see if its safe (reference to the space program, using animals and seeing if they came back dead and adjusted accordingly).

It's not going to be thumbprint, facial prints/scan or ocular scans. Faiths believe it is going to be in your mind or in your heart, a choice given and a choice being made. Perhaps it could be the literal heart or brain itself, some sort of chip.

Ultimately youre never going to know until that moment comes when "they" come after you. No point scaring yourselves to death in the mean time.

Yes you will know. If you think you can't know it's because of what is going on in your heart and mind. It will manifest spiritually and literally. So yes.. there will be a "mark"

Also, you should re-read revelation. Many translations contend the mark is "FORCED". Also, nowhere does it say the mark is a chip. Most Christians just assume this because this theory made sense at the time because of the technology of the time. Read a bunch of translations.. Main issue is the author envisioned a person presenting their hand and or face to conduct purchases. This has to be the basic understanding.

Also, we are in the BEAST SYSTEM RIGHT NOW! Why do you think you are on ATS? Because so many are looking around and saying HOLY CR@#P look what is going on around here.. this is insane. We are living in a prison, a matrix. So if you are waiting for the army to install chips into everyone's head i think you will be waiting forever. They won't ever need to do it like that. They will do it in a financially and logistically superior way. A way that actually is more convenient, secure and unobtrusive. Because they want it to be used.

There is always a Beast.
There is no time when there is not a Beast.
There is no coming of a Beast as if there wasn't one already there.
What happens through history up to our time is a multiplication of beasts by alliances.
The final conglomeration tries to take the world in a literal sense, rather than the old sense of what the world was.
Many will run to and fro, or whatever the verse is, and knowledge will be increased, like Google Earth, where everything is mapped out. Doomsday is the documentation of every person and every bit of real estate for tax purposes. The ultimate recipient of those taxes is the ultimate Beast.
Every smaller unit below the top of the pyramid pays tribute to the head, the one who sees all, has all the records and nothing will be held back that is not fully accounted for.
Either like the thread title suggests, we are already in it, or there is a spiritual meaning to it.
Satan I think would be the ultimate benefactor and what does he want, for you to be in bondage to him to death from your sins. Free yourself from the bondage of sin to not be the slave with the mark of your owner.
Jesus is the way to freedom and why he left Heaven and became a man and suffered and died for us.