Danger in the Sky-the Chemtrail Phenomenon VID-Evergreen Aviation Admits to USAF Chemtrail Contracts

Originally posted by OuttaTime
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Yeah, but however they try, I know exactly what I experienced. I know what I saw. But even if I videotaped the entire incident, they would call it CGId or something else, since the EPA, CDC, OSHA, and WHO have our health held with puppy hugs.

Not really. It's just highly suspect that this stuck around for two weeks, and freaked you out so much. And yet, in the 14 days - that's right, 336 hours - that you had the opportunity to take the photos, you didn't. Hmm.

What part of Florida? We get bad pollen here in Central Florida.

reply to post by OuttaTime


Consider how fast powder falls, maybe one foot per second? So if the powder fell for 30 minutes to reach you, then the plane would be at 1,800 feet?

And when you say "it wasn't pollen", what exactly are you basing that on? Can you find an image on the internet that looks at all like what you saw?

It really sounds like pollen. Does it look like ANY of these images?

www.google.com...

Or these:

www.flickr.com...

This one is not dull or splotchy:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c7db76b3ba05.jpg[/atsimg]

Nor is this

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a0144d0787b0.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by SeekerLou


Hi, SeekerLou,

LOL! You are NOT going to use Jesse Ventura and comparisons of chemtrails to flatulence and poop to discuss this topic with THESE guys, are you? Trust me, it's not the best plan of action with these chemtrail debunkers.

reply to post by NightGypsy

LOL.. Glad someone appreciated that.
I got tickled typing it.
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Thanks to everyone for the replies. Enjoying and studying here , .
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Outtatime,
I would think the same thing as you, that there were chemicals sprayed after seeing that plane and substance with all of you getting sick. I can see how you assume it was from the plane. I'd definitely be believing that too if I had been in your shoes.

-----------------------------------------------
To everyone else, Imo, I think Outtatime knows what pollen looks like, I can give him more credit than that, he seems pretty intelligent to me. I would think he could tell the difference between pollen and an unknown. So please give 'em a break, you guys. or more credit than that.. now, come on. He and they really had a bad experience there.

I realize some of you are skeptical but OUttatime speaks with feeling and belief and Ido not believe they are trying to pull our leg in any way whatsoever....

1st Scientific Report on Chemtrails

Dr.ir. Coen Vermeeren @ Chemtrail Symposium - University of Ghent 29th may 2010. Dr. Vermeeren is an aeronautic specialist from the 'Technische Universiteit Delft', in the Netherlands

reply to post by SeekerLou


Calling something scientific does not make it so.

It's an anonymous report. It just regurgitates the same stuff. There's nothing new there. There's nothing there that has not been debunked.

It's also somewhat amusing in places. For example, they show some maps from "Kevin Martin, a meteorologist working for the Ontario Weather Service in 2008" , which sounds impressive, as Ontario is a huge province of Canada with 13 million people.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a9d896995d70.jpg[/atsimg]

Except actually it's Ontario, California, a city near Los Angeles of 170,000 people. And the OWS is just Kevin Martin's old personal web site. Kevin even briefly posted here on ATS

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And if you look at his posts, he's actually a chemtrail DEBUNKER, and put up the charts to show that persistent contrail formation is affected by the weather. They totally missed the subtleties of this, and assumed these were some kind of "plans" for which regions were going to be "sprayed". Now how is this scientific again?

Here's a quote from Kevin Martin:

Studies from the SCWXA.org have been made over the past several years on people that believe in chemtrails vs. contrails. These studies produced the chemtrail forecast section in which forecasts for visibility of these trails were given on a daily basis.

During this time, forecasts were generated based on the amount of moisture in the upper levels and how cold it was. During times of no moisture above 20,000 feet these reports were not being received, however during moist upper level days the people would report the trails.

It is a misconception and business. Chemtrails are not real, and were developed like a comic book industry, to make money. The developers of this bogus theory are making off with your cash on T-shirts, Photos, Forums, and much more.

Believing in chemtrails is the same as joining a Star Wars convention. You join a club of people that share the same belief, and others around you know it is fake.

If they can be predicted by a weather person knowing how to forecast contrail visibility then they simply do not exist the way believers think.

And yet they use him to support their case? As one of their best pieces of evidence?

I do have a bit of a soft spot for them however, as they said about contrailscience.com:

Last but not least there are a number of websites that deny the existence of 'chemtrails' in a quite cynical but scientific way. An example of this is contrailscience.com... Its Webmaster, known as 'Unicus', does actually hide his real identity - adding fresh meat for the conspiracy theory grinder that it might be a government agency. However it is significant that this website deals with any of the websites mentioned above, reducing the argumentation of 'chemtrail' protagonists to a piece of rubble.

reply to post by OuttaTime


One fact you have to realize is this:

If something is being sprayed from 20,000-30,000+ ft above you, the particulates will not land directly underneath it and right on top of you. In reality, the particulates will be blown hundreds of miles from the "ground zero" aiming point, if not farther due to the winds. Upper air winds blow strong and constant, and they change direction and speed in different areas. For example, you can have 20mph winds blowing NE at 5,000ft, while at 15,000ft you can have 75mph winds blowing SW. If you were to pour out a 50lb bag of sand 10,000ft up, do you really think it will land right below where you dropped it? Try it off a bridge or a tall structure. Take something like sand, powdered sugar, or something like that, and see what happens. Also you must realize the volume of air we are talking about. Whatever is going to be sprayed or dropped will be dispersed and diluted to the point of ineffective. You would require a very absurd amount of aircraft and the "drop agents" to saturate an area to the extent of seeing it on the ground affecting you, especially if dropped from contrail-producing heights right over you.

You said that there were large amounts of the "yellow powder" everywhere that came out of nowhere. Ok, I will not doubt you did. But if that were to have come from 30,000ft, then the amounts required to be dropped would have been very very large and very noticeable, even falling through the air.

Most times people see persistent, or "heavy spray days" , is when there is an active weather front approaching, usually a warm or cold front. The air is primed for cloud formation and persistence and an airplane's exhaust can start the contrail to form into a cloud. Usually on bright sunny days, with high pressure and low humidity, there are no contrails to be seen, and if there are, they dont last long. Other days when the weather is changing, you can have the sky crisscrossed. I have lived the Chicago area for years, and I see it all the time.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Pervius

You can read about the B-2 bomber that sprays an acid into it's exhaust so you CAN'T see a contrail.

Where? I though they discontinued those systems as they don't really work, and instead use a rear-view mirror.

Lots of stuff gets sprayed into the atmosphere. The U-2 flies so high they have to put antifreeze in the jetfuel to keep it from freezing. And that antifreeze comes out its tailpipe into your lungs or raining down into the crops/water.

Really, do you have a source on that? The temperature is generally constant at around -70F above 36,000 feet. It actually starts to rise above 70,000 feet.

Anyway, those things don't sound like deliberate spraying that looks like contrails either. Just one example of pollution.

Antifreeze and Acid sprayed into the atmosphere a 'pollution'....wow talk about a disinfo agent post.

I do not know what height they were flying. I have no altimer sensing devices or doppler to establish how high they were flying. And even if it was pollen, does that also mean that it could have been 'processed' pollen? They are very good carriers of spores, microbes, and bacteria. Either way, I do NOT retract my experience. If people want to debunk chemtrails, that's fine. Then debunk the huge variety of quickly ensuing physical deterioration of a few hundred people and explain why one person is hospitalized for a rapid onset of pneumonia, while someone working with him is out for 2 weeks because of a nasty flu, or the helper who was out for a week from intestinal infections coupled with explosive diaharrea and projectile vomiting. Or the ones that left early that day with severe cold chills and a sudden drop in body temperature and severe lethargy. Maybe the guy who spent a week or 2 in ICU from some mysterious onset of immune degradation. So, the implications of it being 'allergies' or 'hayfever' are preposterous. West Nile is calmer than this. It far too easy to isolate planes and pollen than it is to associate the two. It's a popular courtroom practice. Even if the witness has true testimony, if the prosecutor can warp the defendants credibility, it diminishes the validity of the truth, even though the incident still occurred. But even if an official came to your door with testimonies and videos, would you still doubt him?
But on the same subject of these 'contrails', if atmospheric temperature and density are not a factor, but dumping fuel is, then how safe is the intentional dumping of jet fuel healthy? And what effects does it have in the atmosphere? We are in the age of technology that allows us to manufacture extremely efficient and clean jet engines. Then why all the smoke and such?
It is known that decades ago, benzene was used in aviation fuel. It was an exhaust product that was released in vapor form and drifter around in the atmosphere. 'Officially' it has been banned, but is it really? I cannot answer that, but we are in the age of fuel additives. So even if we weren't chemtrailing, then the byproduct of air travel is still a key player in global environmental issues.

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by OuttaTime
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Yeah, but however they try, I know exactly what I experienced. I know what I saw. But even if I videotaped the entire incident, they would call it CGId or something else, since the EPA, CDC, OSHA, and WHO have our health held with puppy hugs.

Not really. It's just highly suspect that this stuck around for two weeks, and freaked you out so much. And yet, in the 14 days - that's right, 336 hours - that you had the opportunity to take the photos, you didn't. Hmm.

What part of Florida? We get bad pollen here in Central Florida.

Here we got with the 'pics or it didn't happen' angle. I was sick as a dog and I also missed work. When you don't even have the srength to get up and eat, doing investigative work is not high on the list. The effects and illnesses lasted for weeks. Our foreman missed about 10 days of work. It was in Pasco county.
So I see everyone is going after the 'allergies' story. It's sad really. Just plain sad that skeptics are quick to wave CDC and EPA documents around like it was the bible or something. (They're part of the corruption that was the BP oil disaster and the bird flu fearmongering debacles). I did not conduct a statewide investigation and knock on every door and take soil and air samples, nor did I call a meeting with the mayors and governor. I was effected along with hundreds of people around me, including family and relatives.
No matter how hard folks try to insinuate that everyone just had the sniffles and that I'm over reacting, I stand by my experience. I only wish you skeptics were there so you could have been just as miserable as the many folks this happened to. I'm sure projectile vomiting and severe respiratory infections just happen in an hour or so because of pollen.

reply to post by OuttaTime


I don't think people doubt that you were sick. People are just questioning the connection to the pollen, or the contrails, or the connection of the pollen to the contrails.

You said for the rest of the county, it was just like a regular flu season? The sever symptoms seemed localized to your work site. So maybe it was something else, like food poisoning, or some other local toxic release of something? Maybe something actually toxic at the site.

Like has been said, if something was dropped from a plane overhead, it would likely come down a hundred miles away.

And the interesting thing about contrails spreading out to cover to the sky: they are not falling. Contrails stay in the sky.

Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by OuttaTime

 

I don't think people doubt that you were sick. People are just questioning the connection to the pollen, or the contrails, or the connection of the pollen to the contrails.

You said for the rest of the county, it was just like a regular flu season? The sever symptoms seemed localized to your work site. So maybe it was something else, like food poisoning, or some other local toxic release of something? Maybe something actually toxic at the site.

Like has been said, if something was dropped from a plane overhead, it would likely come down a hundred miles away.

And the interesting thing about contrails spreading out to cover to the sky: they are not falling. Contrails stay in the sky.

edit on 13-8-2011 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)

Whaever happened that day was a rapid onset. And in trying to put the puzzle together is something that involves my hindsight. I saw a dozen trails overhead that spread out overhead. Shortly after that a dust/pollen fell to the ground. There was no wind to speak of (or the day before as I remember talking to others about how muggy it was) and the trails did not drift either. They just spread where they were. It partially blocked the sun like a haze. Nobody thought much about it until people started getting sick. We had seen dozens of planes flying over all the time and only a handfull of them left a trail. Some of the planes were nothing but a reflection in the sky. They left no trail at all, nothing. I've seen plenty of planes leaving a contrail and I knew it was simply the evaporation of moisture condensating in the cooler atmosphere, but they usually were gone within 30 seconds or so.
Usually since I worked near the coast, we would get seabreezes. The days the event unfolded, there was no breeze at all to speak of. You could have held a lit match straight up and it would not have blown out. Cigarette smoke went straight up. So I'm guessing it wasn't anything blowing in, but something that settled down. There may have been upper level steering currents, but poof clouds, plane trails, moved very little. I do remember seeing a stray cloud that lingered in the same place for a good while.

I spoke with some guys who returned back to work after seeing their doctor or after being released from the hospital, and they were in conversations with nurses and employees there that were talking about a big surge in clinics and hospitals in the areas, near to the point of being overwhelmed with a sudden influx of patients. I cannot verify this as I didn't go to a doctor. I had no health insurance, or could afford the tamiflu they were prescribing.

Originally posted by OuttaTime
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Yeah, but however they try, I know exactly what I experienced. I know what I saw. But even if I videotaped the entire incident, they would call it CGId or something else, since the EPA, CDC, OSHA, and WHO have our health held with puppy hugs.

Yes, I know. One of the characteristics of the 'game' is to make us disbelieve what we see, what we know. I'm glad you're not letting that happen. Me neither.

I'm not doubting what you saw. It's just the connections that are being drawn. It just seems odd that you simultaneously say the contrail stayed up in the sky, and that 30 minutes later their contents reached the ground.

That pretty much means that if there was something falling, then it was invisible - until it reached the ground and suddenly became this thick yellow dust? It does not really make any sense.

Again, I don't doubt what you saw. But you didn't see yellow dust fall from the planes. You saw clouds formed by the planes spread out six miles above you. They didn't fall, did they?

And the contrail were white, not yellow.

reply to post by OuttaTime


So many sick people, and yet not a single person who was indoors (and should have been affected) took pictures. For two weeks. All of these sick people. And no one thought to question what happened or take pictures as evidence. Weak. BTW, contrails can persist the same way clouds do. They are made of the same thing. Why do you think it is unusual for a contrail to persist?

Originally posted by OuttaTime
reply to post by SeekerLou

 

I heard both sides of the chemrail story also, and this pic kinda helped cement my thoughts, besides a really nasty experience at an old jobsite.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e2cd2306af24.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/75b4083123b3.jpg[/atsimg]

edit on 11-8-2011 by OuttaTime because: (no reason given)

also, I would just like to point out the deception being done by those pushing chemtrails, using that one particular picture. The "Hazmat" lettering just to the right of the chair with the vest was obviously added in later on. This is the original:



Just want to make sure credibility is upheld. Your photo is hoaxed! I know it wasnt you by the way. Just be careful of what you see and read online. This is how I see through the "chemtrail" nonsense, when people try to BS me in such ways. (Again, not saying you did it, just in general! )

edit to add:

Also this page explains and debunks quite a bit, including your other "spray" boom:
contrailscience.com...

reply to post by GenRadek


A couple people pointed out the hazmat thing. I didn't much pay attention to that. I was looking more at the tanks, valves, and computers. Appreciate the correction.

reply to post by adeclerk


Well, not everyone is a skeptic or a theorist. They live their lives. Things happen, and they get through it. Many people don't have a documentary mentality. I'm sure if there were oriental people there we would have photos of everything.

reply to post by OuttaTime


Gotcha. Apparently every UFO nut with a camera phone gets pictures of blurry dots, but a chemtrailer like yourself didn't take photos of supposedly "falling" chemtrails. Or the chemtrailers in your town, for that matter. Every community has it's share of nuts, but apparently yours has none with a camera phone even?

Originally posted by OuttaTime
reply to post by GenRadek

 

A couple people pointed out the hazmat thing. I didn't much pay attention to that. I was looking more at the tanks, valves, and computers. Appreciate the correction.

All of those components hold water, for flight testing. They simulate different weight distributions (I believe you can even find it on Airbus's website).

...And yet chemtrail promoters still push that photo as "proof". Disgusting.