There Are Some MAJOR Discrepancies in the Orbit Projections of ELEnin

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by Violater1

 

Nope, don't like it. Not one bit

34,257,942 km divided by 1.609344 equals 21,286,898.264 miles. That's even worse... a 21.3 million mile change.

I stand corrected.

That is a huge difference when you put it in kilometers like that. But, that's just 0.229 AU - a 49.46% change. That's a perfectly reasonable change in orbital calculations for a comet that had only been observed for 3 months as of March.

reply to post by CLPrime


Maybe so, the point is, how can anyone at NASA, or anyone else say with certainty that it will not hit Earth?

Or is the closest predicted position to Earth, much further than the current 0.229 AU deviation?

If not, how can anyone say for sure?

The images in trueperspective’s OP post show severe artifacts when exposure was adjusted. The image SatoriTheory's post shows no such artifacts, even with the exposure curved to a higher degree.

The images in Violater1’s post also show no artifacts, with greater adjustment.

What does this say? Well, if you want to start talking image processing Violater1’s images were gif files, the most compressed files on the web, SatoriTheory's image is a png file, and trueperspective’s were jpegs.

I can post the adjustments I made to show you with the settings used so you can see. I’m not calling trueperspective a purposeful deception, maybe his source is. It’s two against one so far.

Also creation dates would be helpful, the longer data is collected the more accurate one can use it for trajectory calculations, that’s why things change.

reply to post by CaptainInstaban


How can anyone say for sure the sun is going to rise tomorrow?

I can play that game too!

reply to post by CaptainInstaban


That deviation was caused by the previous calculation being made when we had only been watching Elenin for 3 months. We can accurately predict orbits enough to slingshot spacecraft around multiple planets with enough precision to send them past objects at specific times and orientation, and even to asteroids, which is like hitting a bulls-eye on a dartboard from 3000 miles away. This is the precision with which we can model orbital elements and gravitational effects... and it's this precision that allows us to give such a precise prediction for Elenin's "close approach," once we've observed its orbit for more than just 3 months. Currently, we've been observing its motion for 8 months. This is more than enough time to extrapolate its orbit with absolute certainty.

reply to post by trueperspective


As others have pointed out there are a large number of problems with your original screenshot. The artifacts are apparent even without adjusting levels or zooming in. The format is not consistent with the JPL Orbit Diagram simulator. Furthermore, we have screenshots of the orbit going back that far and they do not match up with what you have posted. Whether or not this is your hoax I will be alerting the mods that this topic should be moved.

reply to post by trueperspective


you zoomed out a little and the pixel shifted.

Its obvious.

Originally posted by captiva
Ive been following the Elenin threads and so many people are just so sure that there is no need for concern. Those same people quote reference to Nasa and many other sources when they argue their point. Now we are starting to see errors in that very same information that is used to push the " nothing to see here" side of the argument and what do we get with it?...ah, just ignore that, they tweaked it a bit, that diagram is wrong and it still wont cause any damage.

Seems to me when the evidence suits its infallable , when it dosnt suit its " Just ignore that"

respects

Here's the thing, 35 MILLION km of "tweaking" is no small thing, even for astronomical standards. Also, notice the projection changed that much between March of this year and now. How much more can it change? How accurate are they? how do we know that they won't change it again?

reply to post by trueperspective


Read your thread over. I think you'll find all of those questions have been answered.

Originally posted by Illustronic
The images in trueperspective’s OP post show severe artifacts when exposure was adjusted. The image SatoriTheory's post shows no such artifacts, even with the exposure curved to a higher degree.

The images in Violater1’s post also show no artifacts, with greater adjustment.

What does this say? Well, if you want to start talking image processing Violater1’s images were gif files, the most compressed files on the web, SatoriTheory's image is a png file, and trueperspective’s were jpegs.

I can post the adjustments I made to show you with the settings used so you can see. I’m not calling trueperspective a purposeful deception, maybe his source is. It’s two against one so far.

Also creation dates would be helpful, the longer data is collected the more accurate one can use it for trajectory calculations, that’s why things change.

The jpeg is the only way I know how do it. It is a screen shot straight from the site. I found the other pic on the Elenin.com site. No deception here my friend.

reply to post by trueperspective


There is no elenin.com, but I did find your images on elenin.org and the Flash link blocked site also blocks image downloads, but I find it very revealing what this site is all about and why they block links.

This is after a lengthy discussion about some Hopi Indians crap.





Imagine now a laughing smiley that you can't see or link.

elenin.org...

This ATS thread may interest you also.


What does one have to use to embed applets? I image one has to be a site administrator.

Again..Will this be as visible in the sky as hale bop, or is it to early to tell? And how do they comppare in size?
Thanks!

Originally posted by trueperspective
Hey so first take a look at these. Notice the dates, both Oct. 17, 2011 and the position of Elenin. As you can see it is the same viewpoint and zoom.

[ats=640x640][atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c741a68c5dbf.jpg[/atsimg][/ats]

[ats=640x640][atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7c6cd42d69ee.jpg[/atsimg][/ats]

Note the Massive Difference.

Oh and before I hear the old, "they just tweeked the orbit based on new information." note the distances. One says 0.463 and one says 0.234. that is a difference of 34,257,942 km. That is hardly "tweeking." That is a MASSIVE difference.

I don't see much difference.

The top image shows that Elenin hasn't even reached the Earth's orbit yet. If you fast forward that orbit projection to the time where it reaches the Earth's orbit, as in the 2nd view, the distance will be much closer to what the 2nd view projects. So it looks more like a timing issue than a distance issue. If you want to compare apples and apples, make a comparison where Elenin crosses the Earth's orbit. You haven't done that, the second image does, but not the first, so it's an apples and oranges comparison.

reply to post by Illustronic


ok, I was at work so I did a screen shot. Ya know ctrl+print. Then I opened it in Microsoft paint, then cropped it.

It's that easy folks.

One was a projection as of March and the other from today. The difference is stark... I really don't understand why you are questioning my methods so much?

I am not that skilled to deceive anyone by manipulating pictures. Go look for yourself.

Now, back on track. Has NASA changed other orbiting projections by this wide a margin before?

There is something odd about your images.
In the first one, "March 30,2011", the distances are in the format:
- Earth: 0.463 AU - Sun 1.073 AU
(Repeated three times).

In the second one the format is
Earth Distance: 0.234 AU
Sun Distance: 0.957 AU

As had been shown, there are examples on ATS of earlier images from the orbit diagram (one from March 30). None of them show a close approach distance of 0.463 and none of them show the distance format in your first image.

Something's screwy.

And no, the orbit calculations have not changed that much.

Originally posted by megabytz

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by trueperspective

 

Interesting, but was the first one dated 2010? Why did you cut the year in the photo?

No one should make fun of you as ghost said, at least no reasonable mature person should.

Comet Elenin wasn't discovered in October of 2010.

Thanks I agree why not just answer people even if it seems stupid to you not that i am in fear of being made fun of....anyway I read somewhere there were previous reports of this comet from earlier before it was reported found by Elenin...true my post was silly and i didn't think it through just noted i could not see the full date.

is this what your looking for?
i have the whole set.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by Backslider
How can these results be from the same day when the last Elenin observation was 8/02?

I thought they just found it last December 10?

Comet C/2010 X1 (Elenin) is a long-period comet discovered by amateur Russian astronomer Leonid Elenin on December 10, 2010,

Originally posted by violet
I have no thoughts because I'm not an expert.
Are you?

But I'm sure others like me - who have no clue, will S& F your thread

edit on 11-8-2011 by violet because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-8-2011 by violet because: (no reason given)

I would like to comment on the following of 'experts'. Experts and professionals are what put us where we are today. And to what end? I'm sick of following the experts.