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The role of Free Will

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posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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As a Christian I see many of attacks of God on the internet. When the NWO comes and we are persecuted I will never give up my faith, and I am sorry folks, but it is going to happen, and probably within the next 20 years.

The world has accepted public persecution of Christians, for now just in entertainment, but it will follow into the real world soon enough. Life imitates and follows art.

Most of the attacks I see on Christ are on Youtube. The one I see most frequently is:

1) More people have died in the name of God than anyone else.

I always message and correct this flawed logic.

God has granted us something called Free Will.

That means we can choose to do whatever action we want. Love or hate anyone we want. Build or destroy anything we want. Choose life or choose death. Choose Christ or not.

I state that God has killed no one in wars. It is man's perverted interpretation of God's word and man's perverted actions which killed his fellow man.

The number 6 commandment YOU SHALL NOT MURDER.


This means that any Christian who enters the military is not a true Christian. YOU SHALL NOT KILL.
You may have a religious affiliation, but you are not living the word of God. When you enter the military
and kill "for your country", you have in fact betrayed God.

You cannot have it both ways. Start living the Word. Stop killing your fellow man. If everyone did this, the word would be a lot better place.




posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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Please provide me with scriptural proof that man has a "free will", or the ability to make "uncaused choices". In every case, scripture shows that it is God Who is behind the scene of all circumstances that influence and cause a man to make the one and only choice possible under any given circumstance.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Jdawg9909
The one I see most frequently is:

1) More people have died in the name of God than anyone else.

I always message and correct this flawed logic.


You should not bother to waste your time by disputing this on logical grounds. MPAI. And sincerely speaking, most people couldn't follow a logical argument if it lashed and dragged them kicking and screaming. Moreso, despite the vacuous claims of rationality of the anti-theist crowd, they will gladly schew rationality if it happens to deafeat their argument and resort to appeals to emotion, instead. This very argument is in itself an appeal to emotion.

You are better merely disputing it on historical grounds. Point out that the Encyclopedia of Wars lists that less than 9% of the wars that ever happened are in any way related to religion, and only 2 wars are considered to be because of religion by historians.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:32 PM
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first let me say that my family is mostly christian and are good people...
with that being said i dont even know why christians would fix their mouth to ever dare call murder a sin, for christianity it has been more like a calling card from crusades to witch hunts or the christian genocide in canada and those are just a few from a pool of examples of murder being the standard operating procedure, the church should just save itself a lot of apologies and grief and just take a big red "void" stamp and pound that sin out of the books



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by Jdawg9909
 



I state that God has killed no one in wars. It is man's perverted interpretation of God's word and man's perverted actions which killed his fellow man.

The number 6 commandment YOU SHALL NOT MURDER.


Well said my friend...

Though honestly i prefer... Thou shall not Harm

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.


edit on 11-8-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by aero56
 


John 10:18

No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.


Specifically if you looks the last part, this is what my Father has commanded. This means that God has granted us free will. You can type into Google "Bible verses, free will" You will get countless verses to pop up.

We have the power to build or destroy. Let us start building again.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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I agree with your point on doing what you want. Even though someone is a part of something doesnt mean they absolutely have to do, well, anything. To further your example, lets say someone is a christian, and they spend their time trying to convert nonchristians to their way of thinking. That person may feel as though they have to, because 'its only through Jesus that a persons saved', when in fact they dont have try to convert anyone.

A person can do whatever he or she wishes, but there will be consequences for whatever action a person takes. That, I think, is why people feel they have to do something, because they dont want to face the consequences of not doing what is easier for them to do.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Jdawg9909

Most of the attacks I see on Christ are on Youtube. The one I see most frequently is:

1) More people have died in the name of God than anyone else.

I always message and correct this flawed logic.


Whether you want to accept it or not, they are correct. More people have died IN THE NAME of "god" than anyone else. It doesn't specifically say that "god" made man kill anyone, nor do most people say that "god" killed anyone directly. It is correct to say however that "IN THE NAME OF GOD" implies that people use it as a tool to force their views (often through violent means) upon others. Crusades anyone?

Convert or die I believe was the slogan back then.....




God has granted us something called Free Will.

That means we can choose to do whatever action we want. Love or hate anyone we want. Build or destroy anything we want. Choose life or choose death. Choose Christ or not.


What about "god's" will? It is always a convenient cop-out by the theist to praise anything that goes in their favor as a prayer answered, but anything that is negative, such as disease, the overwhelming majority of prayers that are not answered, cancer in children and various other atrocities are chalked up to "god's" will. So where is the free will if "god's" will overrides yours?

If "god's" will and his "plan" are always in motion, then your free will is an illusion isn't it? Every decision you think you make, every thought and every action you take is supposed to follow "god's" will, that is of course only if it doesn't work out in your favor, if it does, then it must have been you right?

Irony or hypocricy?



I state that God has killed no one in wars. It is man's perverted interpretation of God's word and man's perverted actions which killed his fellow man.


It seems to me that no one else is claiming "god" killed anyone directly either, and in that case the second half of your statement is absolutely true. Scary isn't it how religion can be used to control, oppress and violently overthrow your fellow man eh?


This means that any Christian who enters the military is not a true Christian. YOU SHALL NOT KILL.
You may have a religious affiliation, but you are not living the word of God. When you enter the military
and kill "for your country", you have in fact betrayed God.


Newsflash, not all members of the military kill people. There are other jobs besides infantry or spec ops. Lumping all military personnell together into one group is the same as me grouping all theists as fundamentalist christians.


You cannot have it both ways. Start living the Word. Stop killing your fellow man. If everyone did this, the word would be a lot better place.


Killing is wrong yes, but it would also be much better off without a religious system that teaches hate, bigotry, hypocracy and the suppression of knowledge.

King



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by aero56
Please provide me with scriptural proof that man has a "free will", or the ability to make "uncaused choices". In every case, scripture shows that it is God Who is behind the scene of all circumstances that influence and cause a man to make the one and only choice possible under any given circumstance.


Jeremiah 7:31

Your turn. Where is the scriptural proof that God is behind the scene of all circunstances and cause a man to make one and only one possible choice under any given circunstance?



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by Kingalbrect79
 


You are missing the point. If man followed Jesus' law they WOULD NOT KILL THEIR FELLOW MAN, period.


THE WARS HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY MAN AND HIS PERVERSIONS OF THE PHILOSOPHY OF JESUS. IF THEY ACCEPT JESUS THE WOULD NOT KILL.

What is so hard to accept about that? All these humanists, Gnostics and Luciferians refuse to accept their flaw and thus this is why men are lead to slaughter in war.

ANYONE WHO KILLS IN THE NAME OF COUNTRY IS NOT A TRUE CHRISTIAN. GOD COMES BEFORE THIS MATERIAL WORLD. OPEN YOUR EYES. YOUR FIRST LOYALTY IS TO GOD, NO COUNTRY.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Kingalbrect79
Whether you want to accept it or not, they are correct. More people have died IN THE NAME of "god" than anyone else. It doesn't specifically say that "god" made man kill anyone, nor do most people say that "god" killed anyone directly. It is correct to say however that "IN THE NAME OF GOD" implies that people use it as a tool to force their views (often through violent means) upon others. Crusades anyone?


No, it is not correct. Scroll up for my previous reply and learn a bit of history. The Crusades have never been about religion. The Crusades were about stopping the Muslim invasion of Europe, and reconquering the lost land.


Originally posted by Kingalbrect79
So where is the free will if "god's" will overrides yours?


It exists whenever your actions are irrelevant for God's purpose.


Originally posted by Kingalbrect79
Every decision you think you make, every thought and every action you take is supposed to follow "god's" will,


This is an incorrect premise. The Bible does not teach such.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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Most every single christian denomination does not even understand what Christ was even talking about, if they did...they would not have organized it into a business. That relationship is a personal one and is between that human and GOD Himself, no other.
edit on 11-8-2011 by OrionsRage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Jdawg9909
 


This scripture proves free will? The "father commanded"...................it was the father's will, not anyone else s.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Jdawg9909
 


Jdawg9909 over the years it has become quite fashionable to piss all over people of faith on the internet. it is more confirmation of how well evil has taken control over mankind when one person feels they have to attack another over a matter of personal thought, belief or opinion.

with personal belief in a faith i feel the hurt runs much deeper. those that were raised without being exposed to praise and worship rituals have not walked in the shoes of those who have. IMHO such a person can only imagine what the experience is like but i don't know if they even try.

there are many people who have been exposed to people of extreme belief or deep persuasion that rubbed them the wrong way. sadly, some people then judge all others by the few they have known in their little world.

i wish i knew how to explain to others what it is like to be raised in a religion by someone who themself was the product of generations of practicing certain beliefs. these waters run deeper than many can conceive, and often have a lifelong affect upon a person whether or not they continue to practice that faith or those ideals.

IMHO children should be exposed to all sorts of beliefs and cultures as part of their education. it would make them more well rounded as people. they may be able to grasp the concept of how much faith means to some people.

some say 'ignorance is bliss'. on the internet i've found ignorance is more often crude, rude, closed minded, offensive, intolerant and a poor reflection upon a person, as well as upon those who raised them.

Jdawg9909 i don't know if you've witnessed this yourself, but i found long before the internet came into play that many institutions of higher learning in america seem to spin students heads in a knot regarding religion. instead of producing thinkers capable of greater understanding and wisdom they often lead students to blinders-on, my mind is made up student mindset. kind of the reverse of what education should be. over the years i've seen so many young people reject the faith they were raised in and abandon all notion of seeking a wider understanding of theology. that bums me out because i know it is going to affect the children they one day may raise.

i can't agree more with your sentiments regarding killing and wartime. this in particular has bothered me greatly since i've been very young. how people who well know killing is wrong, who have been exposed to the word and comprehend it's meaning, how that person can then volunteer for military duty just boggles my mind.

the Roman Catholic Church as i was raised in has done incredible damage to itself and to its followers, this we cannot deny. the past ten years have produced shocking and saddening newspaper headlines. once again, it is weak mortals that cause so much damage. we have read online in many articles and threads about the disturbing history of the RCC; there is no denying facts. i still have faith and love in my heart & praise and worship on my tongue for our Lord, but i doubt i will ever set foot in a RC Church again, nor will i tithe them even a penny. there are plenty of houses of worship, and countless needs and causes well worthy of my support.

in closing: please hang in there and pray for those who will spew venom at your beliefs. their souls need more help than they may ever know.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by Jdawg9909
 


There is a difference between "murder" and defending yourself against an enemy. Big difference.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Jdawg9909
 


You wrote:

["As a Christian I see many of attacks of God on the internet. When the NWO comes and we are persecuted I will never give up my faith,....)

The missionary parts of the christianities have tried to create their own NWO for 1500 years, and now when the tables are turned, it's whining and persecution complexes from christians. And btw, you are treated better now, than what you did with those under christian dominance earlier.

Quote: ["but it is going to happen, and probably within the next 20 years."]

That has also been said from day one. What about waiting and see instead of trying to 'score points' on prophecies.

Quote: ["1) More people have died in the name of God than anyone else."]

Which isn't true, but religion certainly has played a big role in genocides etc.

Quote: ["God has granted us something called Free Will."]

And see what happened (according to the mythology), when A & E tried to actually USE free will. Your mythology says we still 'pay' for that.

Quote: [" I state that God has killed no one in wars."]

Either because he doesn't exist, because he let's christian soldiers do the dirty work or because he doesn't care about his failed creation anymore.

Quote: ["It is man's perverted interpretation of God's word and man's perverted actions which killed his fellow man."]

Gosh, ANOTHER 'true' christian.

Quote: ["The number 6 commandment YOU SHALL NOT MURDER."]

Cherry-picking. What about the rest of the atrocities in OT?

Quote: ["This means that any Christian who enters the military is not a true Christian. YOU SHALL NOT KILL. You may have a religious affiliation, but you are not living the word of God. When you enter the military and kill "for your country", you have in fact betrayed God. You cannot have it both ways. Start living the Word. Stop killing your fellow man. If everyone did this, the word would be a lot better place."]

I'm a conscentious objecter, a pacifist myself, but I can't see any special christian reasons for being so, unless the bible is cherry-picked and interpretated in one of those special 34.000 different ways christians have created.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by Leahn
 


You wrote:

["No, it is not correct. Scroll up for my previous reply and learn a bit of history. The Crusades have never been about religion. The Crusades were about stopping the Muslim invasion of Europe, and reconquering the lost land."]

The cathar crusades? The northern crusades?



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by LargeFries
 


Thank you for your great commentary. Your points about the RCC are well noted. But please research the matter furthur.

The Church is programmed to self destruct - it is listed in the Bible. After all, Jesus cannot return until after the Church has been flawed. This time is all too near. You can see that the Church has been infiltrated by Luciferians.

Heck the Pope has denounced in his writings the infallibility of Jesus. He has stated that the Jewish view of Jesus could also be correct. It is proposterous.

This is what Jesus warned us of. The infiltration of politics into Christianity.

It will all crumble soon enough, and please be ready and accept it. Only then can our King return and build his one true Church.

But also, remember and beware that Antichrist will first rise up. Remember, no matter what, that the first Messiah will be a false one! God bless and take care.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by Jdawg9909
I state that God has killed no one in wars.


Who helped Joshua at the battle of Jericho then?

Could it have been Satan?



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by aero56
Please provide me with scriptural proof that man has a "free will", or the ability to make "uncaused choices". In every case, scripture shows that it is God Who is behind the scene of all circumstances that influence and cause a man to make the one and only choice possible under any given circumstance.


Mat 23
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


Luke 18
22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!





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