The Riots Shouldn't Be Stopped - They should continue on a larger scale.

You're promoting anti-materialism by asking people to support materialists and materialism?

Uhhhhhh...

Originally posted by seedofchucky
yaay lets destroy everything we worked so hard to build!!



then once were done rebuilding it after all these riots we will have new politicians to dictate our lives


they will stay in office untill power starts to corrupt them


i know then we start more riots to throw them out

and continue the pointless cycle over and over again ...


if you want to change the world we must first change our selfs ..


These riots in the UK are hurting the cause not helping it .


I do not support anarchy for short financial gain.

If you want to prove a point go attack parliment where the politicians are

leave the innocent alone!

Im going to go point by point..

"yaay lets destroy everything we worked so hard to build!!"
- If we don't, they will.

"then once were done rebuilding it after all these riots we will have new politicians to dictate our lives"
- That's why we restructure, allow 100% government transparency, make it a crime to have secrecy.

"they will stay in office untill power starts to corrupt them"
- once again, make a PROPER checks and balance system where corruption is impossible, significantly cut back government power, then on a further note provide a life in prison sentience for any corrupt act.

"i know then we start more riots to throw them out"
"and continue the pointless cycle over and over again ... "
- that's why we restructure.

"if you want to change the world we must first change our selfs .."
- I entirely agree, but you need to break some eggs to make an omelet. Nobody want #ty shells in their great food, just as we don't need #ty people in our great world.

"These riots in the UK are hurting the cause not helping it . "
- The outcome is the same, concentrate power and rage of the riots toward a central goal, give the riots direction and purpose. we are only delaying the inevitable by not acting, and in turn making it harder for us to make it through, we are consuming supplies that will be essential, once the supplies are gone.. they are gone.. act now and have fuel for the revolution.

"I do not support anarchy for short financial gain."
- I agree, but with guidance it can have great results.


"If you want to prove a point go attack parliament where the politicians are"
"leave the innocent alone!"
- AGREE!!

- Its all about direction, sometimes you need to fight fire with fire.. we have a significant upper hand.

I happened upon this thread by mistake, and started reading, becoming amused by the arguments on both sides. Wouldn't you know it though, I couldn't stop reading it.

However, one thing I find to be common here is that everyone keeps acting like the OP is all about the violence, looting and killing. He has said numerous times that he does NOT condone that type of misdirected behavior. I found myself getting sick and tired of seeing that reoccurring statement. "Haha you're dumb and immature. Violence, looting and killing are bad!" ...yeah. The OP knows that. He said that about a hundred times. Stop saying it. Please, for the love of better reading, STOP BRINGING THAT UP. That being said...

The OP has mentioned putting REAL people in power once the corrupt politicians are out. Fathers, teachers, farmers, scientists, etc. This is a fine idea. However, who is going to keep those individuals from becoming corrupt when they are in positions of power? Will they not gain followers who will stand behind them? They will feel like the 'celebrities' the prior corrupt politicians once were. Will they not want to attain wealth and material objects like the politicians before them? What would be stopping them with all of their supporters (who may also want to get a piece of that pie)?

I am in no way opposing your ideas OP, but I would like to know what the plan is. I feel I have a right to know, since you claim that you will start a revolution by 2013 if no-one else already has by that point. How will you get enough people to join your riot to make a difference? How will you get them to overcome their fears of possibly losing their belongings, jobs, normalcy, possibly loved ones? How will you lead this riot to parliament? What will you do once you are there? Why not just organize a peaceful protest, as one of the other posters suggested? If everyone in America stopped going to work, stopped contributing to society, and just plain said 'no', the country would crumble, but I assume the government would have to meet some demands and make changes before they would let that happen. Even then, how would enough people be convinced to give up their electricity (because no-one would be around to keep the grid operational) and give up their running water? Even if a massive peaceful protest is not the plan, what is it? If your plan is reasonable, you may have a supporter. If it is not...well... you get the idea. Thanks for an interesting read so far, ATS.

Cheers.

reply to post by ConspiraCity


I was going to edit my prior post, since it was being created while yours got posted.
I asked some of the questions you just provided your answers to. I now have questions regarding your answers.

Original statement: "then once were done rebuilding it after all these riots we will have new politicians to dictate our lives"
Your Answer: "That's why we restructure, allow 100% government transparency, make it a crime to have secrecy."
My Q: How would we restructure? What is the exact plan to make 100% government transparency work? How will you root out secrecy without being invasive yourself? There needs to be a plan. What is it?

Original statement: "they will stay in office untill power starts to corrupt them"
Your Answer: "once again, make a PROPER checks and balance system where corruption is impossible, significantly cut back government power, then on a further note provide a life in prison sentience for any corrupt act."
My Q: What are 'proper' checks and balances? Secrecy and corruption always find a way when they want to. How will you stop it?

Original statement: "if you want to change the world we must first change our selfs .."
Your Answer: "I entirely agree, but you need to break some eggs to make an omelet. Nobody want #ty shells in their great food, just as we don't need #ty people in our great world."
My Q: The omelet in question is MASSIVE... How will you convince enough 'eggs' to allow themselves to be broken? What incentives do all the currently happy 'eggs' have to break themselves to help the plan that may not work?

Again, I am not opposing or siding with the FOR's or the AGAINST's here. I am simply curious.

Thanks!

Cheers.

Originally posted by Qemyst
reply to post by ConspiraCity

 

I was going to edit my prior post, since it was being created while yours got posted.
I asked some of the questions you just provided your answers to. I now have questions regarding your answers.

Original statement: "then once were done rebuilding it after all these riots we will have new politicians to dictate our lives"
Your Answer: "That's why we restructure, allow 100% government transparency, make it a crime to have secrecy."
My Q: How would we restructure? What is the exact plan to make 100% government transparency work? How will you root out secrecy without being invasive yourself? There needs to be a plan. What is it?

Original statement: "they will stay in office untill power starts to corrupt them"
Your Answer: "once again, make a PROPER checks and balance system where corruption is impossible, significantly cut back government power, then on a further note provide a life in prison sentience for any corrupt act."
My Q: What are 'proper' checks and balances? Secrecy and corruption always find a way when they want to. How will you stop it?

Original statement: "if you want to change the world we must first change our selfs .."
Your Answer: "I entirely agree, but you need to break some eggs to make an omelet. Nobody want #ty shells in their great food, just as we don't need #ty people in our great world."
My Q: The omelet in question is MASSIVE... How will you convince enough 'eggs' to allow themselves to be broken? What incentives do all the currently happy 'eggs' have to break themselves to help the plan that may not work?

Again, I am not opposing or siding with the FOR's or the AGAINST's here. I am simply curious.

Thanks!

Cheers.

edit on 12-8-2011 by Qemyst because: (no reason given)

Well for the most part I can answer all 3 questions in one reply.

We would really need to shake the roots of civilization and make them wake up to the corruption and establish a good core group of people who can put our heads together and establish a fail proof system. every time a system is re created in history, corruption is more difficult to achieve. the forefathers of USA where very close on this last one, but it needs even more thought and collaboration this time. If people see the evils at hand and the outcome of the corruption, i'm sure very few will have an issue with a new beginning.

as far as the egg question, the incentive is knowledge, the people that are happy are living in a blissful unknowing state of mind. Most are entirely unaware of the things going on thanks to corruption in media.

Knowledge is power, the pen is mightier then a sword, a spread idea can not be killed.

~ Peace + Love

Originally posted by ConspiraCity

Well for the most part I can answer all 3 questions in one reply.

We would really need to shake the roots of civilization and make them wake up to the corruption and establish a good core group of people who can put our heads together and establish a fail proof system. every time a system is re created in history, corruption is more difficult to achieve. the forefathers of USA where very close on this last one, but it needs even more thought and collaboration this time. If people see the evils at hand and the outcome of the corruption, i'm sure very few will have an issue with a new beginning.

as far as the egg question, the incentive is knowledge, the people that are happy are living in a blissful unknowing state of mind. Most are entirely unaware of the things going on thanks to corruption in media.

Knowledge is power, the pen is mightier then a sword, a spread idea can not be killed.

~ Peace + Love

edit on 12-8-2011 by ConspiraCity because: (no reason given)

The roots of CIVILIZATION? As in not just America? I've said before in other places that I am all for a one world, one nation type of civilization (if done correctly, which is probably the largest and most difficult task the world could ever try to tackle). So I do like this idea. However, more questions arise.

How would we shake the roots of civilization? How would we prove corruption to those unaware of it in order to get them to revolt? What, specifically, would we do to make the thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people aware of corruption before the revolt begins, in order to get them to agree to revolt in the first place, and would it even be enough to get them to agree?

Who would be allowed to decide who the good core group of people would be? How would they be selected? Would they be selected before the revolt began? Would they be selected after the revolution was successful in kicking the old politicians out?

If the incentive is knowledge to the happy blissful folks unaware of corruption, would it matter if they knew of the corruption, since they are already happy and blissful in the world that corruption has helped create? A very great many people fear change, even if what they currently have isn't the best.

I guess what I am looking for are specifics on how this would all be planned out, arranged, how the masses of people would be acquired as followers for the revolution, etc, etc.

Cheers.

Seems to me that democracy has reached its twilight years and no one knows whats next.
Massive paradigm shift taking place with no clear direction, outcome or leadership.
Most everyone wants change but no one can agree on the whats or hows.
many people like their possessions and don't want to lose them, others see this as greed and avarice.
I think maybe both viewpoints have merit.
We want wealth and comfort but also security and freedom. We want to end corruption and end wealth gaps in society.

The things we can agree on are clear enough.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Well OPs

I will believe you are being serious the moment you join in also...burn your house down, and find some girl to beat up...yay for random riots changing things...and indeed they will change things.

What is this riot about?

It started with protest over a shooting, then quickly became a opportunistic drive at getting stuff and breaking things for the sake of getting stuff and breaking things.

Not every punch given on earth is for some noble cause, sometimes people in packs (especially youth) are doing it for the lulz. This isn't the arab spring where they are crying out against a dictator, its not them trying to topple their elected officals to install some dictator or some such as in cuba, this is, for the most part, unfocused "fun" anarchy...

The final result will be a much stronger presence of cops and guards around London, perhaps some quick censorship ability (already passed), and a lot of people with criminal records for looting, assult, and vandalism.

I have no problem with a unified movement by the people...this is not that.

This is the Corpoatocracy asserting the next level of fascist control. They are instigating the riots to justify, no - to get people to beg - for more State control. Some morons have even been crying out for martial law. Kids have been reporting that they were offered money to start riots. Will the establishment look into that? NO, because they know exactly what's going on and they are part of the plan.

Originally posted by seedofchucky
reply to post by gwydionblack

 

"As I stated in another reply, I have no connection to my material things in this world. Everything material can be replaced in a free society"


But of course you could careless at the raping the earth takes when we steal more resources from her to rebuild right?


Its the earth who cares its for the taking....


Every single thing you see around has come from earth in one form or another. All this destruction just means more resources we are taking away from future generations to rebuild something we destroyed intentionally


i puke at your logic

Mate, doesn't your logic apply infinitely more to the utter destruction being carried out in 2/3 of the world by the coalition and the corporatocracy?

Are a handful of misguided rioters responsible for the mass murder going on in Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan?

Are misguided youth responsible for covering the Middle East with Depleted Uranium which will continue to poison the earth and the people for hundreds of years?

Are misguided youth responsible for destroying the Amazon?

Are the misguided youth responsible for polluting our land, our rivers and our air?

Are the misguided youth responsible for the massive banking heist which has just taken place to fund all of the above, and transferred the cost of that to to you, me, these same young people and young people for generations to come?

I'm not going to spit on your logic, I'll save that for those to whom it truly belongs.... But I deplore your logic and your blind, ignorant refusal to look at who is really pillaging Mother Earth and 99% of the people who live on this planet.

Im sure no one condones the level of violence, arson and looting!! But lets be clear that most if not all of that is undertaken by unruly ill-disciplined and opportunistic youth that no longer respect the realms of Law!

The deeper question is why are we having riots? well do we have them every 6 months or every year or every 5 or 10 years! NO we dont!

But when we do have them there is always underlying economic and social issues! Do we have them now? Did we have them in the 80's. Yes!!!

Why do we have them, well

1. The banks and bankers have screwed the planet and the worlds economy. And who owns the banks?
2. Tax payers money has been used to bail out the banks
3. The debt mountain has to be paid for by the very people who pay the taxes or receive government aid i,.e benefits.
4. Benefits have been cut
5. Student fees have been tripled
6. Pensions are being delayed
7. People have lost their jobs
8. People cant get a job or go to University because its now too expensive
9. People are losing their homes
10. There are too many immigrants, too many muslims and we have add bombings perpetrated by them
11. Peoples brothers and sisters are dying in Iraq & Afganistan
12. Prices in the shops are sky rocketing, yet people have less money to spend or live on. Has anybody seen the prices in Tesco over the last 5 years. They have doubled!!!!!!!!!
13. Gas and Electric prices have gone up 25%. More corporate greed!

You have to look at the root cause if you want to understand the effect and its implications in order to try to address the underlying issues.

Personally I think that we had the students protesting, now we have had some riots, just the beginning! Peoples everywhere have had enough of the bull#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did anyone see the news shot on TV where it caught a young smart well dressed coloured guy speak with that Idiot Boris Johnston the London Mayer. He says "all my friends want to go to University but now they cant"!!

Said it all for me. And he was coloured and smart and presumably had a job already!

Of course I didnt catch a reply.

What is the difference between "rioters" burning my store and the gov. taking my business because they raised my interest by 10% in the last 3 months. . .?
Basically, it's people who have nada to lose vs. ppl who assume what they have, is worth it. . .Like a garden,a store(thats probally won't be used for the nxt yr because of the "rep") in other words -different ideology but within the same group/class- it won't turn out right!

Point is I too(just like the OP) would assume people would react to get At Least their own Point Across using "this route" more peacefully of course

I guess/maybe next riot, the "concerns" will be acknowledged n measures will be taken ( n what I mean is ppl will -hopefully- exhaust this option in a productive way, . .
Because the thing the gov can not stand is- a regime that would not FOLLOW it's orders

The riots in the UK have nothing to do with the government,bankers etc but its mindless thuggery because they had an excuse to riot after the death of Mark Duggan.I don't know how burning people out of their homes or businesses should be urged to carry on and this will only make things worse in the long run.

I can understand we need to make the government see that we aren't going to take their cr*p anymore but rioting in this manner and with these fools on the frontline is not the way to do it.

Why do I get the feeling that these riots and protests are being forced on us? Don't get me wrong, I do want the status quo to change. However, these "Arab springs" and "London riots" all seem to be part of a concerted plan by the people already in power. I want change, but it's becoming obvious to me that the entire world is being put into a vice by design. I refuse to play the game that past generations have played. Your OP was brilliant, and I agree that we shouldn't play within the system anymore, but I also think we can cause change without violence.

They want us to be violent so that we can be oppressed further. Order from chaos. Don't buy into it.

reply to post by Viking9019


Agree to some degree. But its always the idiots and thugs that turn out first but all these people have families and friends and come from communities who are all suffering . Although they are opportunists they have ears and are quick to jump on the anger bandwagon of others!

I suspect that the whole situation will escalate and more protests will follow but they will be better lead!

The social unrest and riots were all part of the plan as has been written about for decades related to the establishment of the New World Order. Most of these "uprisings" have been encouraged by the Elite in the background and used to install central banks and vassal states. Don't kid yourselves. The anger of the people is real but the people are misdirecting it at each other instead of where it counts. When these riots travel to the wealthy areas and march into the capitol buildings and foundations of government then we might be seeing something productive and real. Again, the planned financial collapse and social upheaval has all long been part of the plan and unfortunately everything is marching along exactly as it was intended to thus far.

Where were the peaceful protests by those people before they decided to riot?

Yes. No one listened. peaceful protest

We need to understand why our society produces the "mob". Our young people are being told that the way out of poverty is a university education. An education which will allow you to leave university with an average debt of 30K. Then, our young people are being told that Success= "owning" a home, which puts them in debt for a 200K.

We have a crappy idea of what "success" and "happiness" means It's tied to useless stuff, it's tied to debt. We have whole heartedly embraced this idea and now we have to pay the piper, because guess what, "hard work" doesn't automatically mean "success" anymore.

The energy could be used to for good, instead of destroying, building communities which put value to hard work to provide for you families. Communities that are self sufficient. Communities which value families ( in their many combinations). Communities in which stuff does not = happiness.

I do not condone the violence, but I can understand the under lying frustration. Some people in our society are excluded from the conventional definition of success.

Until we, as a society throw off the shackles of materialism we shall continue to produce angry, volatile generations of people. And one day, they won't stop.

For the OP - I agree in principal, though I am loath to do so, I hate seeing people's lives destroyed. People died. people's lives are ruined and by that I mean the rioters too, the climb to having a life will be even harder now. And sadly, OP, I dont' have much hope that people WILL free themselves and thus, the only hope the "rioters" have is to conform, which of course will now be even harder.

I wouldn't join a riot. I wouldn't hurl bricks. I wouldn't steal a TV. The questions is, what will I do to help make this world a better place by assisting my friends, families, neighbours to free themselves from the yoke of oppression that is our corporate run governments?

I just don't know.

just for clarification:

Riot:
1. A wild or turbulent disturbance created by a large number of people.
2. Law A VIOLENT disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons assembled for a common purpose

So, I ask, based upon that definition, how are riots a good thing? Organised protest, with a cause... yes. Wanton destruction of peoples property and livelihoods is in NO way noble or just. These little scrotes that have been running around are nothing more than thieves... to encourage their behaviour is... guess what? encitement to riot!!!

I am all for a change in the system, and beleive that PROTEST is a valid means to obtain that change. To 'run riot' in a city centre, smashing property and stealing, using the excuse of 'fed up of being arrested for nuffin, police can't touch us today!'(Real quote, search skynews), is not a form of protest, it is theft and vandalism. ANYBODY involved in this should be, in my humble opinion, hanged(waiting for the people who think they are clever to try and correct that), drawn and quartered, it is nothing more than a form of terrorism brought about by a lax society without values or morals, where are the parents through this? oh yeah. One family photographed loading up a car outside a looted lidl's store. WELCOME TO ENGLAND!!!
We need morals before we change anything, or is it a good thing that people should take over the country that think it is ok to steal and TAKE what they want. Hard work is what should get us our goals, not bullying and violence. Posts like this that open calling for more violence should be reported to the authorities in the country concerned, not lauded and applauded. To call for violence against our brothers is sick. Lets fix ourselves first, then move onto the system!!!

Originally posted by Qemyst
I happened upon this thread by mistake, and started reading, becoming amused by the arguments on both sides. Wouldn't you know it though, I couldn't stop reading it.

However, one thing I find to be common here is that everyone keeps acting like the OP is all about the violence, looting and killing. He has said numerous times that he does NOT condone that type of misdirected behavior. I found myself getting sick and tired of seeing that reoccurring statement. "Haha you're dumb and immature. Violence, looting and killing are bad!" ...yeah. The OP knows that. He said that about a hundred times. Stop saying it. Please, for the love of better reading, STOP BRINGING THAT UP. That being said...

Thank you for making that point. So many people are simply NOT taking the trouble to read what is actually being said, let alone THINK about it. It seems our country has become infected with jingoism, and the unwillingness to take the time to read something thoroughly and think it through.

The OP has mentioned putting REAL people in power once the corrupt politicians are out. Fathers, teachers, farmers, scientists, etc. This is a fine idea. However, who is going to keep those individuals from becoming corrupt when they are in positions of power? Will they not gain followers who will stand behind them? They will feel like the 'celebrities' the prior corrupt politicians once were. Will they not want to attain wealth and material objects like the politicians before them? What would be stopping them with all of their supporters (who may also want to get a piece of that pie)?

I hear what you're saying. I think, however, that it is almost impossible for us to imagine a world where the same greedy, corrupt cabal is not at the top of the pyramid using corruption, bribery, etc to control our pariaments. It is their standard mode of operating, to the point where I believe only those who are fully involved in their mafia, or those who are already compromised and therefore easily blackmailed, actually get into positions of responsibility. The rabbit hole is deep and the grip of the cabal is tight.

MI6 does a thorough search into individuals' backgrounds for certain levels of security clearance, and their family's background - going back at least two generations, before authorising that security clearance. The official reason is to prevent the possibility of taking on staff who have access to sensitive information and who can be blackmailed.

So it seems clear to me that since pretty much everything they say is the opposite of the truth, I now believe that they can use the same vetting process to select those who they know CAN be blackmailed.

Our world has been dominated by this criminal cabal for so long, we can't imagine a world without their corrupt control. Without them, the media would also become a tool for rebuilding our society instead of being one of the main tools for destroying it as it currently is, as would our education system which has become one more tool of the cabal to destroy our youth.

Transparency is key to any new system, and is a great safeguard against corruption. I believe it will be much easier than we think if the conniving, malevolent cabal no longer hold the reigns of power. That means denying them access to their massive haul of stolen wealth - or bringing the banking system down completely - which I believe we could do relatively easily with co-ordinated, non-violent civil and economic disobedience.

I don't believe violence will get the job done. It seems that's what they want because it gives them the excuse to impose full scale military oppression. However, it that's the only option, it needs to be directed at the right targets.

On another forum someone posted a question which I though was spot on: They asked: They have just given us trillions of debt to pay - WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DEMAND IN RETURN?

My question: Where did the money go? It doesn't just disappear. Whose bank accounts have been credited with those trillions? It hasn't gone into rebuilding our society. It's not rocket science. It hasn't gone into the public purse. It has gone into the private sector....where the major shareholders are the recipients of the profits. Who are the major shareholders? This was the biggest bank heist in human history.

I am in no way opposing your ideas OP, but I would like to know what the plan is. I feel I have a right to know, since you claim that you will start a revolution by 2013 if no-one else already has by that point. How will you get enough people to join your riot to make a difference? How will you get them to overcome their fears of possibly losing their belongings, jobs, normalcy, possibly loved ones? How will you lead this riot to parliament? What will you do once you are there? Why not just organize a peaceful protest, as one of the other posters suggested? If everyone in America stopped going to work, stopped contributing to society, and just plain said 'no', the country would crumble, but I assume the government would have to meet some demands and make changes before they would let that happen. Even then, how would enough people be convinced to give up their electricity (because no-one would be around to keep the grid operational) and give up their running water? Even if a massive peaceful protest is not the plan, what is it? If your plan is reasonable, you may have a supporter. If it is not...well... you get the idea. Thanks for an interesting read so far, ATS.

Cheers.

WHAT THE CONTROLLERS REALLY FEAR!

reply to post by gwydionblack


No S&F for you!!! I'v never heard such a load of moronic drivel!
Yes there are problems here but its people like you that inflame these situations. I don't know if you're from the UK but I have a feeling you're not. If you were you would no doubt be aware that the ordinary citizens of this country ( all races and religions etc ) are joining together to fight this lawlessness and to help and protect each other in the name of friendship and peace.

Originally posted by MissConstrood
reply to post by gwydionblack

 

No S&F for you!!! I'v never heard such a load of moronic drivel!
Yes there are problems here but its people like you that inflame these situations. I don't know if you're from the UK but I have a feeling you're not. If you were you would no doubt be aware that the ordinary citizens of this country ( all races and religions etc ) are joining together to fight this lawlessness and to help and protect each other in the name of friendship and peace.

Wrong. You're fighting the lawlessness?. By far the biggest culprits of lawlessness are those in control.
You, me and the rest of the country just got saddled with £billions of the banksters' gambling debts. Show me a law which says the public is responsible for the massive debts irresponsibly and recklessly incurred by the PRIVATE banks. Show me a law which says we, the people, are responsible for the debts of PRIVATE corporations? Doesn't it strike you as ironic that the private shareholders of those same banks (Rothschilds, the Royal Family, etc) have increased their wealth during this same time because we, the people, have been handed THEIR debt?

It seems to me that simply acquiesing in this latest massive bank HEIST on the people is what is moronic, and then, even more moronic, is expecting that same old boys group - including Cameron - give a damn about what we the prople want or think, and even more moronic is asking them to sort out the country's problems when they are the ones who are deliberately bringing us to our knees to better control and exploit us.

I'm sorry that you are so ill informed about what's going on. Your ignorance is part of the problem, not the solution.