The Riots Shouldn't Be Stopped - They should continue on a larger scale.

Originally posted by Facemelter
woah this thread showed some of the true colours of ATS.
i understand what what Gwyd is saying, and i agree with him.

Gwyd lives in a fantasy world. The system isent perfect and yes its not looking too good right now but mobs cant be told what to do, and they destroy indescreminently. They are mostly made up of young adults that are confused, high, drunk and in a rebellious stage in life to begin with. They yell things like REVOLUTION! and FREEDOM! while carrying a dvd player under one arm and an iphone in the other hand.

Having riots are not a way to gain control and make change. The people you are fighting against are sitting safely in their castles and watching you destroy each other. Everybody coming together peacefully and just standing in front of your government offices and bringing the world to a stand still would work better than burning down your neighbors livelihood. Think about it. After this is all over the shop owners wont be self sufficient anymore and will need GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE!

reply to post by Flyer


Live their life "correctly"? I wasn't aware you were the spokes person for the ways of "correct living". I'll assume that by living "correctly" you refer to the same paradigm that governments try to enforce on their people - the whole "Work, Buy, Consume, Die" principle?

Grand.


reply to post by Digital_Reality


You stereotype tell. There is no "entitlement generation". Their are people out looking for entitlements in the entire age bracket from 12-99 and even more. Are you against entitlements for the elderly? What about the rich politicians and banksters who profit off of your hard work, never lifting a finger yet owning 99% of the world's wealth? Are you sick of them too?

The whole "what if it happened to YOU" argument wouldn't really apply to me. Let me tell you why... again.

First of all, I do have my own home and my own business. If riots starting on my streets and they seemed without direction, the first thing I would do is grab a megaphone and join in with them. When the time was right and before any massive damage was done, I would direct their attention to me, and I would at the very least attempt to rally them in the direction of the real problem.

Now, if I was too late and these thugs were coming to my properties to burn them down, I would have no problem opening fire upon them. I carry a weapon on me at all times, I have a weapon at my office, and I have many weapons at my home. No, I wouldn't shoot to kill to start, but I would certainly let them know of the consequences of any further action. Once I got their attention their, I would once again grab the megaphone and attempt to rally them in the direction of the real problem.

In the event that I am not at my business or home, and it gets destroyed in my absence, I will be thankful that I have insurance on both. And I will continue on with life and rebuild. If insurance decided to tell me that they would not cover it and I was left with nothing - I would still be fine, because I don't have that much to begin with and I have no problem losing what I have. In fact I am prepared to do so in the future.


reply to post by Facemelter


I thank you for the support. I realize that there are many people that do support my stance here, but that many are the silent minority. The flags and stars have to come from somewhere.


reply to post by seedofchucky


People are easily persuaded. The rioters weren't out for change, but they could have easily been persuaded to seek it. They needed only to be reassured of the they possessed and needed a target to go against that could change everything. You will not change my opinion on this.



reply to post by JonoEnglish


I still believe it would have only taken a bit of clear leadership and vocal initiative to turn the riots into a movement, quell much of the violence, and direct the rage and anger towards a more productive source. The people were already there and ready. Upon knowing the meaning behind it, more would have joined.

All it takes is for someone to be the first to give the little nudge in the right direction. Could you imagine the impact if one of the rioters just had a moment of clarity and yelled, "Hey guys! Let's hit them where it hurts! Let's head down to Parliament!"

I am sure that clearer heads would not have prevailed in such a situation.


reply to post by seedofchucky


This is the last I am going to comment on the Earth in this thread. You do realize that the Earth was his by massive bodies of space rock in the past, and that those massive bodies completed irradiated nearly all the species on the planet, plants and animals alike. It also is said to have burnt up the Earth's atmosphere and make it completely inhabitable for thousands, maybe millions of years.

But look at it today. Lush, green, fertile... and we are worried about a hole in the ozone killing the Earth. LOL. We aren't worried about killing the Earth, we are worried about killing OURSELVES. The Earth is going to be absolutely fine after humans, just as it was long before humans. All the nukes on the planet wouldn't equal the force of one the extinction level events of the past, and that is just fact. Humans are not more powerful than the Earth, and we are DEFINITELY not more powerful than the universe.

reply to post by Digital_Reality


How many mobs and riots have you taken part in?

Fantasy world. Haha. A fantasy world is the world in which advocates of change live in where they hope, pray, and type away wildly in an attempt to change the world, refusing to acknowledge the annuls of history and the real pathways to change. That is the fantasy world that many people live in today.

Mobs and riots are made up of people. People are easily persuaded, brainwashed, and directed. Do you deny it?

These people are just people and given the right motivation and direction, given morale to achieve something greater - just like any other human being when provoked - can and will do it.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Thats better than murder, steal and destroy everything.

They werent even targeting the government or the police. Just normal people like the injured guy who was mugged or the people that had their houses burned down.

Youre just as bad as them by defending it.

reply to post by gwydionblack

All it takes is for someone to be the first to give the little nudge in the right direction. Could you imagine the impact if one of the rioters just had a moment of clarity and yelled, "Hey guys! Let's hit them where it hurts! Let's head down to Parliament!"

Great, more sheeple blindly following the goals of one man's agenda. Great revolution!

reply to post by gwydionblack


You've got it all figured out. You are delusional. There are other ways to go about getting change to happen. Individually people are smart and can make informed decisions. In well planned out situations in mass they can act intelligently if the goal is peaceful and all involved understand and adhere to the plan. Collectively in a drunken state of self entitlement they are stupid.

I was not talking about old age grandma entitlement or help for the disabled. That's a whole different conversation all together. I was talking about young, new to life kids thinking the world owes them everything for free.

Big difference.

reply to post by Flyer


Once again, not defending the looting and attacking of the innocent civilians, but ok.


reply to post by JonoEnglish


You are ridiculous. Suggesting they divert their anger to those responsible is following blindly now? They don't fashion their own opinions?

Someone, somewhere was first to say that these riots were a bad thing. Based on your assumptions, you are just a blind sheeple following him/her.

And frankly, you are now grasping at straws with furious exaggerated one liners to derail the topic.



reply to post by Digital_Reality


I do indeed have it figured out. I've spent a good many years figuring it out. That isn't to say that other people haven't figured it all out as well, or that other methods are not approachable, I am just a realist. I don't live in an ideal world like most people like to pretend that this is.

Change does not come through peace alone, especially when you don't hold anything to barter with. Honestly, if 10 million people marched on Washington and just stood there, how much do you think that would accomplish? I don't care about all the planning and preparations that went into it - life would go on as usual. At most, to make people go home, government would agree to some half-assed half-way satisfying result that they won't follow through with or will ignore anyway.

But guess what? If 10 million people marched on Washington, all holding firearms and threatened a violent takeover of the government - people would act. Agreements would be formed and you would see your change.

Do not think that it was Martin Luther King Jr. alone that won the Civil Rights Movements, because peace was fighting a losing battle.

But even since then, times have changed. At least government had an ear to speak to the farther back in time you go, but today it is nothing more than a blind turn away from the people. Did marches on Washington end the Iraq war? Did countless protests change the outcome of the health care bill? Did people marching on the streets prevent the UK from planting cameras up each of their arses?

No, I think not.

You are delusional, no insane. You know, doing something over and over again and expecting a different result. Old, I know, but it fits. I realize the futility of the situation and the fact that the ways people HOPE to achieve change just aren't going to work, and I am prepared to take further steps to achieve it.

reply to post by gwydionblack

You are ridiculous. Suggesting they divert their anger to those responsible is following blindly now? They don't fashion their own opinions? Someone, somewhere was first to say that these riots were a bad thing. Based on your assumptions, you are just a blind sheeple following him/her. And frankly, you are now grasping at straws with furious exaggerated one liners to derail the topic.

You agree there is no movement or cause for this rioting. Then you state one of the rioters should have shouted out to move onto parliament. That IS following blindly. You call me ridiculous!

Maybe they can make up and discuss reasons for trashing parliament once they've finished.

Movements need answers to the problems people are protesting against!

reply to post by gwydionblack


Good luck in life friend. I wish you all the best. If the SHTF in America ill look for you and your bullhorn. Hopefully you wont get hit in the head with a beer bottle.

Out..

reply to post by JonoEnglish


So let me get this straight.

You feel that there is no reason to bring down Parliament? That the UK government is just peaches and ice cream then?

Because if that is the case, since you seem to feel the rioters wouldn't have a reason to target the UK government, then your replies make much more sense. You love the status quo as it is and feel that there is nothing wrong. Jolly good then.

reply to post by gwydionblack

You feel that there is no reason to bring down Parliament?

...and replace it with what?

That the UK government is just peaches and ice cream then?

I never said that.

Because if that is the case, since you seem to feel the rioters wouldn't have a reason to target the UK government, then your replies make much more sense. You love the status quo as it is and feel that there is nothing wrong. Jolly good then.

For a start they didn't attack Pariament. If they did under your scenario, they'd have no clue why apart from trashing the place. Again, I doubt if you asked one of those rioters what they want or wish to replace that system, they wouldn't have a clue or give a dam.

I love Britain even though it has it's problems.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Hey gwyn.

The question of leadership in a revolution is important. Were there to have been people such as you suggest, to lead these disgruntled folk in a more directed manner, towards targets of importance then the actions might have been more revolutionary. However they were not.

Riot can be a tool of revolution. Riot can also be just riot, which to what I have been able to grasp of the situation in London is more the case.

I agree with a lot of your analysis of the system and reasoning as to why it is as it is and why we have not in the past been successful in bringing it to its knees. Part of this inability is due to there being so many different visions of what future paradigms will be based upon and different visions of how the transformation will come about. Certainly you have noticed this in your travels and activism. The disagreements amongst the revolutionary leaders?

I have stood before the barricade. There is a mindlessness there. There are some who only want confrontation and immediate release of emotion. There are others who are living off of decades long theory and repetitive thought patterns developed in their youth.

Who will they listen to? The one who calls "To the Bastille"? Will they listen to the one who calls "take it somewhere else". I think not. A mob is a mob and will only listen to the mob and to force trying to contain it.

I send these thoughts along to you not to ridicule. And not for a moment did I suspect you of defending mob violence. Only brother, to offer counterpoint in our revolutionary development.
On to the Bastille.

HI all ,new member to ATS ,some good comments listed, makes good reading I believe the uk is at the forefront of NWO propaganda and believe we are observing another false flag attack using the people against the people, yes these are criminals, yes they need to be jailed and yes the local communities have all rights in protecting themselves against these scum bags . I hear minibuses where rallying thugs to trouble hot spots but by who ? (gladio units MI6 ?) www.dailymail.co.uk...
What we are witnessing is another case of Problem ,Reaction Solution . Here in the uk 99.9 % of population want our loving government to come down harder on them (us!) Be carefull what you wish for ! as they will happilly accomodate your restrictions.

reply to post by JonoEnglish


My hope would be that if there was someone smart enough to lead them towards Parliament, they would be smart enough to announce why. I don't know if you've ever heard a speech before a battle, about why the people are there, what they are fighting for, and who the enemy is, but I'd imagine it going a little bit like that. An inspirational speech does a lot to encourage people to give it their all.


reply to post by TerryMcGuire


The question of leadership, I believe, is the most important question. What bothers me is that nobody in the UK made an attempt to take leadership or to direct the outburst in a positive manner. This leads me to believe quite possibly a couple of things:

1. There is nobody willing to stand for what they believe in the UK.
2. There are people willing to stand, but they were not smart enough to try to gain control of the situation.
3. There are people willing to stand, but in the face of fear and possible harm, they are cowards.
4. There are people who claim to stand up for their rights, but really don't care in the slightest.

Either way, the outlook does not look good. It points towards the complacency of a society. America is terrible in that department, but it seems that with the exception of the youth, the UK isn't far behind.

And yes I do notice the differences among revolutionary leaders, much like the differences of the founding fathers of the United States. But it is not something that cannot be overcome. I hold the stance of absolute freedom so long as you don't interfere with my life. This belief has positives for EVERY person and almost everyone can agree with freedom, however, some people seem to be stuck on notions of forcing people to live and act according to their beliefs and ways. This needs to change and people need to be more accepting of differences.

I believe that a mob can be controlled, or at the very least, urged in a particular direction. However, you would have to be one of the mob in order to do so. There is no other way around it.

With hope, I will have the chance to test my theory one day.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Have you seen what's happening in the aftermath of the UK riots? Some of Those who were not smart enough to cover their faces before committing criminal acts have been identified via the UK extensive use of surveillance cameras. Now the the police are televising raids on the homes of these "suspects".

Riots like these will never accomplish anything because the true meaning and message gets lost the minute the first fire is set or ma and pa shop gets looted.

The British authority will now clamp down tighter than ever. Was that the intent of these ridiculous thugs who were just hoping to vent some rage and walk home with a new stereo.

We have just seen the result of a full generation born and bred on govt. entitlements. FAILED experiment.

If were going to fight lets fight for something worth fighting for, Not each other and most certainly not for an x-box and a 42 inch flat screen telly.

reply to post by jibeho


Well guess what genius? If there was no government to crack down on them, then they wouldn't have to worry about it would they? If they had someone to lead them away from looting random civilians, they wouldn't really be prosecuted for it would they? If people had the balls to stand up to the atrocity that is CCTV and demand accountability from their government before now, they would have to worry about any of it would they?

I could care less about what actually happened, I am pointing out what SHOULD have happened if anyone would decide to wake up and take a stand for themselves instead of complacently allowing big brother to do its regular old job.

It certainly is convenient for people when big bad looters are abound.

This thread rates at 1 million on the moronic scale

Ok then we will all riot just to placate the tin foil hat brigade of 6 people.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Well, what are you going to say when the 'big' riot happens in your street? Your home is torched? your family robbed? your family beaten up? you wake up in hospital not knowing who you are?
Remember, no society=no food, no society=no doctor, no society=no roof.

reply to post by pikestaff


Well if there is no roof or no doctor, why would I wake up in a hospital not knowing who I am?

Robbery and torched homes, as I have said before in this topic - mean nothing. Regardless, unless I was incapacitated, if people were making for me with no signs of stopping or listening, I would shoot them, probably in the legs. That usually makes the others stop and listen for a moment.

However, I highly doubt a looting situation would happen on "my street" anyway. I daresay if a riot situation occurs, I would have to go out of my way to find it in order to attempt to speak some sense into the rioters. There isn't much to loot in the middle of the woods.