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Man claims PAN AM flight logs show baby Obama flew with parents from Kenya to Hawaii

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posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


Yeah, it has buddy, you just dont want to accept that. I leave you with your misguided thoughts. Bye bye.




posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by SavageThoughts

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by spinkyboo
 


Funny how this integrity never came into play with all the white presidents.


Funny how none of the white presidents raised this many questions or worked this hard to hide things too isn't it?


Who's fire do you think you are stoking with a post like this?
Thanks for the support.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by mjfromga
Oh, here we go again...the race card. Maybe he is a pretender. Show a non-forged BC, for God's sake and be done with it. White presidents have had plenty of skeletons in their closets - Nixon. Was Obama forced to resign? How about Clinton w/ his hanky panky, his questionable stock trades, etc? Reagan and the Contra affair. We could go on for quite awhile here...


And still with all of their bad behavior no one questioned there legitimacy to be President in the first place. That is the point trying to be made here. No one said that no other Presidents behavior has ever been questioned. But no other President has been raked over the coals over his birth status or his legitimacy to be President. Never.
If it's happened before then freaking prove it !



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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My confusion on Visas and Passports grows.

2 different government programs/offices deal with visas:
www.capriotti.com...

And there's legality issues of whether or not you can hold more than one Visa. Some places apparantly don't care.

And apparantly you can travel on a temp. passport if yours was "lost or stolen", so stamps don;t have to be all in one book.
en.wikipedia.org...

(I really hate throwing this confusion to y'all, but ah, well.)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by karen61057
 


Actually, the eligibility of several presidential candidates has been challenged, including McCain in both 2000 and in 2008. It was a very big deal in 2000, and a big enough deal in 2008 that the Senate passed a non-binding resolution to declare McCain eligible (sponsors included both Obama and Hillary Clinton). John McCain also presented his birth certificate for full disclosure.

Also challenged was Barry Goldwater, who was born in Arizona while it was still a territory... and Mitt Romney's father, George Romney, who I believe was born in Mexico to American citizen parents. There are still claims that Chester Arthur was not eligible either, born to non-citizen Irish parents.

The difference is that Obama refused to release his birth records, has fought every effort in court to prove his eligibility, has been accused of falsifying and forging documents, as well as using a fraudulent Social Security number, and Obama did, in fact, assume the presidency. There are still those on both the left and right who claim McCain is not eligible to be president because he was born in Panama (where his father was stationed in the Navy); if McCain had assumed the presidency, I have no doubt it would still be an issue -- just as Obama's eligibility is still an issue.

In terms of race, one lawsuit challenging Obama's eligibility was filed on behalf of Alan Keyes, a Black candidate on the Constitution Party ticket in 08 (iirc). No one has challenged the eligibility of Herman Cain, a Black candidate on the Republican ticket running for 2012. And I don't remember anyone challenging Shirley Chisholm's candidacy (a Black woman) back in the day. Nor do I remember anyone challenging Jesse Jackson's eligibility the many times he ran for president.

Incidentally, Obama's eligibility questions were not raised by the right. The first questions I saw were raised by astrologers, looking for birth info for Obama to calculate his natal chart. The first lawsuit challenging Obama was filed by a Democrat (Phil Berg), and another by an independent (Leo Donofrio).

No doubt there are racists who just don't want a Black man president and would use any excuse to run him out of office... just as there are racists who just want a Black man as president and would make any excuses to keep him in office. But there is also a legitimate issue of Constitutional eligibility, fraud and forgery, and pointing racist fingers in any direction doesn't change that.

Blessings to you.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


I don't buy what this man is selling:


"........ Pan Am kept flight logs and in the 5 To 10 months that pretty much were a window for his birth only a certain number of flights from Asia(emphasis mine) were recorded and passenger manifests will show people who arrived foreign passports and a black man and white woman. ........"


It is hard for me to believe that Asia is a typo. If this man thinks that Kenya is in Asia his story is suspect. If his flight logs show Kenya in Asia his flight logs are suspect. Either way, if he can't get his facts straight it's hard for me to believe him. Also, if it happens to be a typo and his information is correct it would still harm his credibility.

About the birther movement in general I don't really care. Many people have mentioned it dating to his candidacy and up to and including today nothing has been done for whatever reason. So, I took a step back and tried to view it differently.

I'm sure everyone has heard about the supreme court allowing heightened contributions from corporations. Combine this with the precedent that our current president could set. If this birther stuff is true and it came out after he left office; it theoretically could open the wedge toward the goal of allowing international control into the executive branch. I am no expert on law but I do know that precedents have been important since Roman times.
I hope I'm wrong.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by wcitizen
 


Yeah, it has buddy, you just dont want to accept that. I leave you with your misguided thoughts. Bye bye.


"Yeah, it has buddy" isn't really the kind of evidence I can rely on... I'm happy to move on. Have a nice day.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by Boadicea
 


Which one of those gentlemen were President again? Oh yeah, none of them.
Their issues were settled. McCain, was born in Panama but since his parents are American he is too. Why would this not also apply to Mr Obama ? If he was in fact born outside the USA, which I do not believe but...


The issue here seems to be the birth certificate. You dont think its real. I know it is. End of story. You're not convincing me and obviously I am not convincing you.
edit on 13-8-2011 by karen61057 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by karen61057
 


Um, yes, Chester Arthur was President (1881-1885, assuming office when Garfield was assassinated), and not only was it an issue in his day, it is still an issue today, 130 years later. I provided several examples of White candidates having their eligibility questioned, and examples of Black candidates never having their eligibility questioned; but apparently you want to confine the parameters to only those who actually assumed the presidency. That's fine; but given Obama's Irish heritage, then we can only conclude that only Irish presidents are hounded about their eligibility... but not all Irish presidents, as demonstrated by JFK, whose eligibility was never established.

You have, however, proven my point; simply by virtue of the fact that none of the other questionable candidates assumed the presidency, questions became moot and therefore the issue was dropped -- not because suddenly everyone agreed, but rather because it no longer mattered. Obama did assume the presidency, Obama refuses to allow discovery and put the issue to rest, therefore the issue remains alive.

I never stated an opinion and I have not tried to convince you of anything. These are the facts. You can and no doubt will interpret them as you choose. As will I. And everyone who reads our words. I am not a document expert, and I have no way of knowing whether the docs are legit or not. What I do know is that people who are document experts say they are manipulated frauds.

And despite your assertions to the contrary, unless you were present at Obama's birth, and you personally recorded Obama's birth in the Hawaiian archives, then no, you don't know any more than I do.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by Boadicea
I am not a document expert, and I have no way of knowing whether the docs are legit or not. What I do know is that people who are document experts say they are manipulated frauds.


Who?
I want names and qualifications.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Boadicea
Obama refuses to allow discovery and put the issue to rest, therefore the issue remains alive.


Except he did allow discovery, he has both versions of his birth certificate online, which previous president did that?

the issue only remains alive because birthers refuse to accept a black man is the legal President.


What I do know is that people who are document experts say they are manipulated frauds.


Who are these "document experts"? Which legal cases have they represented or appeared at, and who decided that they were "document experts", or are they self declared "experts"? What qualifications do they have to declare them "experts"?
edit on 13-8-2011 by spoor because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by spoor
 


To Spoor and Kitilani:

Really? You never noticed any of the birther threads here on ATS that discussed any of the experts? It seems you two have some research to do... which I would never presume to do for you. But I'm happy to help you get started:

Sandra Ramsey Lines: Filed sworn affidavit in Keyes case; former federal examiner and law enforcement officer; began training as a forensic document examiner in 1991; Certified Diplomat of Forensic Sciences; member of the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners; member of the Southwestern Association of Forensic Document Examiners; member of the Questioned Document Subcommittee of the American Society of Testing and Materials.

Douglas Vogt: Filed sworn affidavit in Hornbeck v Salazar; expert in documents, typesetting, imaging, scanners and document imaging programs; has filed criminal complaint with the FBI charging Obama’s birth doc is forged.

Ivan Zatkovich: 28 years experience in computer science and document management; 10 years experience as expert witness providing testimony in federal court (both criminal and civil litigation).



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by spoor

the issue only remains alive because birthers refuse to accept a black man is the legal President.




Ummmm....Barry Soetoro is half white and half black. Why r u being racist? He's everyone's President.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by Boadicea
 


It;s ok, they are extreme leftist proven many times over numerous threads. Any time you try to have a debate on barracks lineage, they play the race card, no suprise there, they will not even consider it, it is really sad how well the elite's plan is working on their minds
edit on 13-8-2011 by bo12au because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by bo12au
 


You believe that? Race cards need not be played. The reason the race card comes out I think is because it's the only thing that makes sense when every theiry is proven to be a lie. When that theory is debunked, they move on to the next, then the next etc........

Every birther claim is proven wrong or just a blatant lie. So when the goalpost gets moved, then moved, and moved yet again, one has to wonder why. That is all. It's not the topic itself which attracts the 'race card' as much as it is the blatant disregard for facts and the relentless witch hunt based on lies.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by spinalremain
 


Thank you for the respectful reply, very rare on ATS. I can speak only for myself and I think he is a citizen. It is HIGHLY unlikely that the United States Government would allow this to happen. I too believe that the extreme right is reaching. Now, I do not agree with his economic policies for this country, but to be fair I did not agree with W's either. I think everyone just needs to stop pointing fingers, take a deep breath and come together as ONE to get our country back to were it belongs.Peace



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by Boadicea
reply to post by spoor
 


To Spoor and Kitilani:

Really? You never noticed any of the birther threads here on ATS that discussed any of the experts? It seems you two have some research to do... which I would never presume to do for you. But I'm happy to help you get started:

Sandra Ramsey Lines: Filed sworn affidavit in Keyes case; former federal examiner and law enforcement officer; began training as a forensic document examiner in 1991; Certified Diplomat of Forensic Sciences; member of the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners; member of the Southwestern Association of Forensic Document Examiners; member of the Questioned Document Subcommittee of the American Society of Testing and Materials.

Douglas Vogt: Filed sworn affidavit in Hornbeck v Salazar; expert in documents, typesetting, imaging, scanners and document imaging programs; has filed criminal complaint with the FBI charging Obama’s birth doc is forged.

Ivan Zatkovich: 28 years experience in computer science and document management; 10 years experience as expert witness providing testimony in federal court (both criminal and civil litigation).




Still waiting for their qualifications as the experts you claim they are. Anyone can claim to be an expert in their field. That does not make them an expert by anyone's standards but yours and theirs. Would also love ANYTHING that actually applies relevance to their apparent expertise and their claims.

How about you back it up with something?
edit on 13-8-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 

hahahahaha, thanks for the chuckle

since this is the first i've seen this "evidence", that's a super easy one to debunk ...

first ... no official stamps
second ... no official letterhead
third ... this is about as ambivalent as the newspaper 'notices' because the submission date of 8/31 on the extension request was 3 wks post the visa expiration date and his school advisor was already questioning his marital intent which would have prevented INS approval of any extension.

got anything better ??? like a copy of their marriage license ... which i believe has yet to be discovered even though it's supposed to be public information.

remarkably, on his extension requests for each year 61, 62 & 63, Obama Sr does not even mention his marriage or child. plus, let's all forget that he was ALREADY married in Kenya so his American marriage would have been a fraud and legally contested.

and, if you have access to any pages showing the passage stamps, please share ... that would be 'evidence'.
edit on 13-8-2011 by Honor93 because: correct sentence stucture



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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when the 2012 elections begin everyone including obama must disclose proof of eligibility or they cant run for the presidency...its only fair to all the runners and the American voters



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 03:37 AM
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reply to post by Kitilani
 

then read the previous posts in this thread. the info has been posted.
please, do your diligence before asking someone to provide it to you.



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