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Mother bear kills cub then self at Chinese bile farm

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posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


So is reading about some of the things I am reading lately. There is no comparison and the US is guilty of a lot. When we find something like this and even civilian murder in Iraq for that matter we are horrified outraged and change the situation so it cannot happen again. It is not OK by any sense of the word.

We don't have people approving of it. Marketing it.

Don't give your affront to me when Japan and China are killing dolphins, dogs and whales along with their human populations. That is just stupid. I am on board with the boycott.




posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 04:39 AM
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Well I actually did do some research and read a fair few articles, one which is quite well known and published in Time Magazine. I wouldn't say it was uneducated and again I express my distaste to animal cruelty.

On another note, your spelling in the last post was far from educated.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Jay-morris
 


So is reading about some of the things I am reading lately. There is no comparison and the US is guilty of a lot. When we find something like this and even civilian murder in Iraq for that matter we are horrified outraged and change the situation so it cannot happen again. It is not OK by any sense of the word.

We don't have people approving of it. Marketing it.

Don't give your affront to me when Japan and China are killing dolphins, dogs and whales along with their human populations. That is just stupid. I am on board with the boycott.


I have not once said that killing these animals is right, not once. What i don't approve of are the people coming onto this thread and blaming all the Chinese. Why is this ok to do when it comes to the Chinese, but with your own country, you blame people as individuals? why is that?

What would you say if i said that all american soldiers are evil rapists and murderers, just because a small minority of these soldiers did do terrible things? Off course, you will say i am wrong.

We are all guilty of driving animals to extintion, but thats ok for to you as long as we don't torture them. Take Orangutans as an example. They may become extinct in the next 50 years, dues to our use of palm oil for using as fuel and as an ingredient in lots of foods.

This is just one example of many. We are all to blame. Do you by newspapers, xmas and birthday cards? If so, then you are to blame too, considering we can can get all the news we want online and buy e-cards, e-books etc We are all guilty to some degree.

As for eating dog. Some people in India think its disgusting that people eat cow. Will that stop people eating cow, no.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





Me, too. I can hardly stand to read any story that involves cruelty or suffering of animals. I cringe every time I see roadkill.
I suppose it's weird, but I feel more sickened about that than people suffering. Wonder what that's all about.
This story reinforces my opinion that the Chinese are truly a sick society.

(And any member who decides to call me "ignorant" or "soulless" or "psycho" and flame me because of these feelings need not bother. I won't respond beyond saying that I am an educated, curious, and studious person with decades of research, thought, and consideration - with an open mind - of many different subjects.)


Rather than sending me pm's why don't you debate with me on the thread, so everyone can see. You say Chinese are truely a sick society. Do you know every chinese person living in China? Do you honestly think that people there are people in China that do this, that means they all do it.

People during the london riots done some truely terrible things. Does that mean that all English people are thugs?
Some muslims are terrorists, dos that mean all muslims are terrorists?

The list goes on and on. You say you are educated. With the comments you have made, i don't think so



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 





You say Chinese are truely a sick society. Do you know every chinese person living in China? Do you honestly think that people there are people in China that do this, that means they all do it.


The needle is stuck on your record -- not sure if you are old enough to understand that saying, but you are repeating yourself.

Most people understand that not every single person in China is the same any more than are Americans or any other nationality or race. There are, however, cultural norms, that can be generalized across members of the culture. Sure there will still be exceptions, but most people would follow the culture.

We sometimes find aspects of other people's cultures disturbing. The lack of conscience regarding the sanctity of animal life is one of those things that does seem to be normative in Asian societies that is more than just disturbing. This extreme example of that is what people are aghast at; me included. No, not every person in China is in agreement with this any more than every American agrees with warmongering.

The fact remains that America is a war mongering country and China is rife with animal abuse.
edit on 8/12/2011 by wayno because: missing word



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by wayno
 





The needle is stuck on your record -- not sure if you are old enough to understand that saying, but you are repeating yourself.


Er ok





Most people understand that not every single person in China is the same any more than are Americans or any other nationality or race. There are, however, cultural norms, that can be generalized across members of the culture. Sure there will still be exceptions, but most people would follow the culture.


I lived in China for two years, and you would be suprised how westernised China has become. People become ill, they go to the doctors, people have an accident, they go to the hospital. My wife is from a small town, and everytime she was ill, she went to the doctors, just like everyone else to take meds. Im not saying that people don't take chinese medicine, because they do. In fact, in the uk, there is a chinese medicine shop in every town because they are very popular, so its not just the chinese taking these medicines.




We sometimes find aspects of other people's cultures disturbing. The lack of conscience regarding the sanctity of animal life is one of those things that does seem to be normative in Asian societies that is more than just disturbing. This extreme example of that is what people are aghast at; me included. No, not every person in China is in agreement with this any more than every American agrees with warmongering.

The fact remains that America is a war mongering country and China is rife with animal abuse.


Have you read some of the horrible things people have been saying on this thread. On person saying we should nuke them? All these people know nothing about China, and never been there. Well, i have been there, and know many Chinese people. If you think its ok for people to spread BS, and say horrible stuff that is not true, then thats up to you. Me, considering my wife is chinese, my daughter is half chinese, then of course i will say my piece.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 



Not one of them have replied to me, which tells you alot about these kind of people!

DUDE! I did reply to you! I chose to do it via u2u because you are clearly wanting a poo-throwing competition.
People are ignoring you because you are flaming them, NOT because "you are right."

I asked you in the u2u to enlighten us. You and other posters on here seem to get all vicious at Westerners who think Chinese are in some ways barbaric....yet you NEVER offer evidence to the contrary.

So you're married to a Chinese lady. Like I wrote to you earlier (and YOU refused to respond), I'm sure she's a lovely person. And she had your baby. But YOU ALL LIVE IN ENGLAND.Why is that?

If China is such an exemplary and fantastic place, why don't you live THERE? Was your wife born and raised there? Or is she an English citizen born of Asian people who left? Does she go to buy bear bile at all the shops in the high streets? No? Why not? If so, WHY? Good deities above, it's utterly barbaric. If the Chinese are such techno-whizzes, and can make things so cheaply, why don't they make a synthetic "bear bile" equivalent and leave these innocent creatures alone?

It's fine if you want to defend that not ALL Chinese people behave in the way that some do -- and --as I stated clearly in my u2u -- ALL societies in the "civilized" world are sick to some extent. The entire industrial/tech WORLD is sick. Including, and certainly not the least: the USA and England.

So stop shouting at people and EDUCATE them about why Chinese/China's society are misunderstood.
This forum calls for civility and decorum. Getting on here and calling people ignorant and bashing them is NOT debating. If you have valid reasons to discredit the revulsion that people feel at this story, then by all means, tell us why we should change our minds.

You wanted me to bring it public?
Here ya go.
Now I challenge you to educate, inform, and diffuse the "ignorance" that you claim people who feel sickened by Chinese practices such as this one feel here. But don't expect ME at least, to say, "Oh, okay. It's okay to torture bears, then. Carry on. As you were."

It is SICK. And I quote the same as the poster many pages ago:

Mankind's true moral test, its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from view), consists of its attitude towards those who are at its
mercy: animals.~Milan Kundera (1929-) ,The Unbearable Lightness of Being (1984) pt 7 ch.2


Do a search for the phrase, and you'll see it's been uttered in one form or another (swap out "animals" for weakest member, youngest, oldest, sick, poor, animals, etc.) by numerous people including Ghandi, the Pope, and everyone in between.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 07:28 AM
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Im a six ft five skinhead and this made me cry.

Fkin brutal.

Speechless




posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


Well, now that I've gone back and read from where I left off yesterday (which I did AFTER replying to you here in public), I see that you just keep making the same points over and over and over...and over...oh and again.

We get it. Your married to a Chinese person. You fathered a child with her. She's an animal lover. Great. That's fanfreakingtastic. Now -- what is she -- and the POPULACE of China doing to STOP THIS SICK BEHAVIOR? Anything?

And btw, China is NOT going to be the "next superpower." ... do some research. ... and educate yourself.

I fully relate to wanting to defend the decent members of ANY culture. In fact, I have worked with undocumented Spanish-speaking people living here in the US for many years. MOST of them are kind, loving, hardworking, and want only to make their children's lives better -- or to earn enough money to put the roof on their house. They are not here to steal jobs, run drugs, or practice tax evasion. So I defend them when I hear people bashing all "Mexicans". I have spent time there, as well. I have become involved with their families, their worries, their cares, their fears. They are people. Most of them are loving and simple people. SOME OF THEM are psychos.

Does that mean the Mexican society is healthy? NO IT DOES NOT.

Try to read what people are saying without just repeating the same refrain over and over. It's tiresome.
And stop calling people names. It makes you look juvenile.

EDIT TO ADD: and this is an important point I want to make...

If people are sickened by this story, by the photos, are brought to tears, are made angry and feel the need to lash out at this brutal inhumane and superstitious barbarism, THAT IS A GOOD THING. It is NORMAL for people to feel nauseated, depressed, sickened, sad, and angry about this type of brutality.

We are repulsed by things which are WRONG. Being desensitized happens to people when they are immersed in something for so long that they become inured to its evil. It doesn't make evil any less evil.

Jeez, dude.

Let your wife read for herself...or are you her master? Does she have to have permission to read things? Are censoring her information sources? If she's such an animal lover, she too will be revolted by this news. And maybe just enough that she can go and raise some hell about it in her own language in her native country.

You can't protect her and/or your daughter forever. If the shadow of SOME Chinese practices is following them, just like so many people "hate" Americans, they are going to have to learn how to combat it. If she's unaware that this is going on, she can't do anything about it. If she is a Chinese citizen, maybe she can. The Chinese IN CHINA who are ALLOWING this savagery certainly don't give a $/IT about what the West thinks of them.

edit on 12-8-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-8-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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I say let the good times roll I hope the bears all get wise and fight back I am a firm believer in through pain comes discipline I think these people should have their bile streaked across a lab floor while a hungry cub eats their face off. Nature always finds a way to balance itself out I feel horrible about this and alot of other injustice to animals and people, even though it is usually people that make everything effed up anyways.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


We are going to see these things differently and yes I know about the cows. There is another set of people we share the planet with and they have no such aversion to death. I would like to kill them but I have an aversion to murder and even more of an aversion to keeping a thing alive, without permitting it a life that does not include harvesting organs or product from them but we don't do that and if we do it is such a dreadful secret that most of the country is unaware. You think I pick and choose who lives and who dies just because I protest against this but it isn't the truth. I am not my planet. These are apples and oranges. You can't compare them.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by EvanB
Im a six ft five skinhead and this made me cry.

Fkin brutal.

Speechless



Seriously?

So I suppose you are also a vegen?

You realize that same bear would have no problem tearing into the stomach of a caged animal and beginning to eat it while it was still alive. Even if the animal's mother was watching in terror and couldn't do a thing about it.

You realize in the wild, animals often pick on the young and/or weak and infirmed.

You realize in the wild, there are parasitic relationships where one animal will live off the other one for days or weeks or years until the host finally becomes so weak that it will die.

Sure, the story is a sad one, but I bet it doesn't cross you mind while you are eating a mechanically seperated meat hot dog sometime today, or having lambchops on the barbeque grill this weekend. I bet that bear wouldn't have any problem eating your child in front of you.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Plus, on another note. China's media is state-run. Why would they release this story? Something stinks about this. China never releases a story that makes them look bad in any way. What is the motivation for releasing this heart-wrenching story that may or may not even be true? There is always an angle.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 08:47 AM
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I can't believe that's your response to this guy and to top that off your a mod here,your a disgrace.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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I am not sure who gave me this link. I know it was a fellow ATS poster but I was just reading it and think this line of thinking is desperately needed. Religion has not served to make us humane. I wonder what if anything short of a direct ascension and evolutionary JUMP will succeed in changing anything. I know we have to get out of this SPIRITUAL PIT we are in. This may help somebody.
Transcending the Matrix

Knowledge is the key to unlocking our potential. It gives us the self-​determination, responsibility, and power necessary to cast off the chains of covert oppression. Knowledge is therefore the greatest protector, for it also gives us foresight to impeccably handle the challenges of life and, most importantly, to sidestep the traps on the path to awakening. The more you know of higher truths and apply what you know, the more you begin operating under higher laws that transcend the limitations of the lower. montalk.net...



Among topics covered are ...

* alternative science, from orgonomy to quantum physics

* current events and the New World Order

* the role of extraterrestrial and hyperdimensional aliens

And...arrgghhh!

* how you are being farmed for your spiritual energies

edit on 12-8-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by gibbajabba
I can't believe that's your response to this guy and to top that off your a mod here,your a disgrace.


Me being a Mod is irrelavent, and I don't see you disputing anything in my post? I can't believe your response to my post is to point out that I am a Mod, but not offer any type of on-topic rebuttal?

The guy claims to be a 6 ft 5in, skinhead that cried over this story. Please.


Do you disagree with what I posted? Please elaborate. I posted something very similar early on in this thread, and it got a couple of intelligent rebuttals, instead of just the typical "but your a mod" response. Show us what you got.


edit on 12-8-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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The main difference between this and what we do in america is that we eat them for their nutrition. We need the fatty acid chains and there're vital b vitamins as well that we cannot exist without. So we have no choice. Eating their bile IS A CHOICE. That's what makes it wrong. It's condemnable. It's disgusting. I wish PETA would get off our backs and go to china to set things right again. We need cool heads to prevail these days - it's complicated world.

I am a spiritual person. I love animals. I think mother nature speaks to us through them. When I do eat their flesh, I am always mindful of their spirit and I only buy organic and from local farmers. I never buy from factory farms. Those are evil places. Meat from factory farms is tainted by the soul of a haunted creature. It's poisonous to us and I know to stay away from it.

I cannot understand why people would eat bile. It's wrong. I can sense something evil about it.
edit on 12-8-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by gibbajabba
I can't believe that's your response to this guy and to top that off your a mod here,your a disgrace.


Me being a Mod is irrelavent, and I don't see you disputing anything in my post? I can't believe your response to my post is to point out that I am a Mod, but not offer any type of on-topic rebuttal?

The guy claims to be a 6 ft 5in, skinhead that cried over this story. Please.


Do you disagree with what I posted? Please elaborate. I posted something very similar early on in this thread, and it got a couple of intelligent rebuttals, instead of just the typical "but your a mod" response. Show us what you got.


edit on 12-8-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

From what you've already said your really not someone i wish to converse with in any way,that's as much of my time as your having.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by jaxnmarko
 

It's still inexcusable. Just as we have to go to Afghanistan because terrorists will use it to their advantage, we must also condemn china for their activities. By ignoring it it will not go away.

We must act because there's no other choice. If we do nothing then we're just as bad. If we do something then we're a moral authority. It's about having the moral high ground in a matter.
edit on 12-8-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I don’t agree with your rationalization. What is being done to those bears is so far from humane it’s not even funny. Its torture! Humans are held to a higher standard of behavior than animals. That’s what separates us from wild beasts.

Compassion and respect for life has gone out the window in this situation.



posted on Aug, 12 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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You realize that same bear would have no problem tearing into the stomach of a caged animal and beginning to eat it while it was still alive. Even if the animal's mother was watching in terror and couldn't do a thing about it.


Yes some animals also eat their own babies, does that mean a person can justifiably do it too?

What does animal behavior have to do with judgments on human morality issues? Is your stand point that anything an animal does can also be justified human behavior?
Humans have the ability of empathy (well some of them don't apparently) but the ones that do can put themselves in the position of feeling another creatures or animals pain and feel bad about it.

Yes people eat meat, which also causes animals pain, but
A) Cattle etc have been bread for thousands of years specifically to be farm animals and
B) Farming is highly regulated to try and ensure that the animals suffer as little as possible in the process.
Is the farming process perfect? Of course not, Is there still suffering caused, Yes. But using one form of suffering to justify another is just a rather silly "two wrongs do make a right" argument

If you cant see that killing a cow as fast as you can to eat it and wear its skin is not morally equivalent to keeping a bear alive in constant pain and suffering for years on end to extract its bile then I dont really see how I could possible explain it.

As for someone being incredulous that a 6'5" person could cry at an animals suffering, Im sure you know yourself why thats ridiculous, unless you would like to link us to a study indicating an association between height and being a sociopath .
edit on 12-8-2011 by davespanners because: spelling



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