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Gibraltar is British

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posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 07:01 AM
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Gibraltar came under Anglo-Dutch control in 1704 when it was taken from the Spanish through a military action. It was then officially handed over through the treaty of Utrecht to Britain nine year later. The treaty stated 'the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar together with the port, fortifications and forts thereunto belonging; and he (Catholic King of Spain) gives up the said propriety to be held and enjoyed with all manner of right forever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever'. I believe the facts are simple, Gibraltar is British, the people have come under British rule for 300 years and will remain so until the time that the people of Gibraltar wish change. Recently Gibraltar voted on whether they wanted British or Spanish rule, 98% of the voting population wanted to remain British, I think that shows that Gibraltar is destined to remain British for a very long time.
Spain is hypocritical because they currently control the cities of Melilla and Ceuta which are on the North African coast. Morocco has demanded the integration of these two into it's own borders on several occasions, but Spain as bluntly refused stating that they are both part of Spain. Talk about double standards.

Why is it the Spanish Government want's control over Gibraltar, against the wishes of the people of Gibraltar?????

North African Spanish Cities


Any Spanish People want to give their thoughts? I'd be interested to know what the Spanish People thought about Gibraltar.

[edit on 18-8-2004 by UK Wizard]




posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 08:36 AM
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The story of the Rock of Gibraltar goes back to the 7 century, when it was name, Jabal Tariq, or Tariq's Mount, and eventually Christian tongues changed it to Gibraltar, he was a slave. The area was taken by muslin during the invasion of Spain and the rock was seen as and honor of their religion. The rock was also the edge of the world as to the muslin beliefs.

Gibraltar was recaptured by the Castilians in 1309 but was regained by the Moors in 1333 and held until 1462, when it finally passed from Moorish possession. In 1502, it was annexed to the Spanish crown. In 1830, Gibraltar became a British crown colony.

Actually the rock the rock was in Spanish possession to begin with and they fought for it against the Moorish invasion two times to lose it again to the British empire, but as anything in that area I agree that the people of Gibraltar should be allowed to decide under wish rule to be.

The rock is an important part of the Spanish history but that does not give the rights to Spain over it.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 08:37 PM
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Well, just from the "distance" standpoint, it looks like Spain has the greater territorial claim to Gibraltar. After all, it's surrounded by Spain on one side. Britain's nowhere near it. Seems to be well within Spain's sphere of influence.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by Flinx
Well, just from the "distance" standpoint, it looks like Spain has the greater territorial claim to Gibraltar. After all, it's surrounded by Spain on one side. Britain's nowhere near it. Seems to be well within Spain's sphere of influence.


The same exact train of thought could have been used on the Falklands, and it was even further from the British Isles.

I think that if the inhabitants of Gibraltar wanted to become a part of the United Kingdom they should be given this right, but these territory disputes are all over Europe.

I mean lets not forget places like Cyprus.

Thank heavens that most European nations are more level headed than Argentina.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by Agent47
The same exact train of thought could have been used on the Falklands, and it was even further from the British Isles.

I think that if the inhabitants of Gibraltar wanted to become a part of the United Kingdom they should be given this right, but these territory disputes are all over Europe.

I mean lets not forget places like Cyprus.

Thank heavens that most European nations are more level headed than Argentina.


I understand that Argentina was a dictatorship and the majority of the Falklands population wanted to remain British, but I'm just saying...in MY reasoning (maybe I've been playing too much Civ 3) the country nearest the disputed territory has a better claim.

Maybe it's just my idea of nation building. I think it's better to have closely-linked territores near one another rather than a bunch of far flung colonies.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 05:46 AM
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Why don't we return to the ages when England conquered a large portion of France, it's just next door, so England has a claim over the land


*last paragraph was riddeled with sarcasism*

If a country wishes to remain under control of another country in this case UK then Spain has no right to Gibraltar



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 03:49 AM
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I think this is more of a question of whether Britain wishes to retain and therefore maintain Gibraltar, and whether they can afford to or not. Well perhaps not whether they CAN afford to, but whether they WANT to. Thisis a cost cutting move by the British governement who wish to downsize their role worldwide if possible, and the Spanish governement is more than happy to step in and take over an area which would be cheaper for them to run and frankly, although England has been there for nearly 300 years, they still share more ties with Spain culturally then England.

If people in Gibraltar wish to apply for a British passport and become British citizens i think they should have that right, but if England wishes to relinquish control over this province or colony or whatever you want to call it, they should also have that right. Just because something has historical precedence dos not mean its right. Just because Britain was there for a long time, doesn't mean they have to remain there. It is the same with American bases being closed in Germany, many Germans will lose work over this and are petitioning the Americans to stay instead of closing down bases there and redeploying troops home. Just because America was there for the last 50 years or so, doesn't mean they should have to stay there because of the benefit they have to a few thousand Germans. It is the same with Gibraltar, which when it was annexed by the British Governement was of invaluable strategic omportance but since the advent of the jet fighter and modern warfare, aswell as the ENORMOUS expenditure of upkeep now, the British government doesn't and should't have to stay.

That is just my opinion though.




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