Mandatory Work Meeting, Held In Religious Retreat House Littered With Hate Brochures

You spent some time at an off-site location for a work function, and this location had religious materials in view. Now you're thinking about a lawsuit because you feel "assaulted"? Give me a break and grow a spine and some skin.

When you accepted employment (nobody made you) you became a participant in whatever your employer deemed necessary for your job. This includes training sessions, off-site visits to anywhere, and whatever the heck they decide to do within the confines of the law.You ARE employed to keep secrets or work with them if your employer wishes it.

You read the tracts of your own accord - your employer didn't tell you to do so. You admit as much. Your assumption is that they left the materials there on purpose - but that would totally fall apart in court. From your own writings, your employer did not engage in anything that forced religion on you - you did it to yourself. (ProTip - they probably rented the location for cheap because it was a religious camp.)

Do your employer a favor and quit.

i think you are way over reacting.

first off sessions for "team building" are becoming more popular with companies. they think that if they can get people to work together as a team it will increase productivity of everyone. who knows if it actually works but companies are sure it does so they do it.

why was it held at a religious center?. simply put it was available probably at a reasonable rate unlike at say a hotel. companies are wise to try to save money where they can. it also seems that religious centers are becoming the only places that let you use their property cheap now days. i am part of a group that used to use school buildings for meetings as we don't have cash to throw around (as in free), but schools started either wanting a lot of money or only allowed groups attached to the school or government to use. so we had to start meeting in a church as they were about the only place we could find to let us meet for practically free. a good part of this "low rental fee" is due to the fact that most religious organizations are non-profit in other words they HAVE to charge a low fee since they are not ALLOWED to make huge profits.

as for staff at the "center" being used. how do you KNOW they worked for the center? where they wearing name tags that said they did or did they state they did? even so it wouldn't matter as you have stated there was NO religion apparently discussed in the meeting. if they were part of the religious group that runs the facility i would say it's something they have done to make a bit of money for them and/or their church. nothing wrong there either.

signing the wavers about photography is so that both your company or those running the session are free to take pictures without fear of being sued over it. the people running the session can then use said pictures in advertising and even training. likewise your company could publish them in say a news letter .

the waver for liability likewise covers both the company and the session group as well as the facility owners from frivolous mega laws suits if you were to say slip and fall. again nothing strange here. it is standard operating procedures that HAVE to be used due to all the people filing lawsuits frivolously.

i do understand what you mean about the "advertising" on the stall walls in the washroom. i don't like them either. i have to stare at liquor and beer adverts anytime i'm in a bar washroom. this type of thing is everywhere now, even universities have advertising in their washrooms now. it's annoying sure just do what everyone else does, just ignore it.

i just love how you call the religious tracts "hate literature". from what you said i saw no "hate" involved. where they saying the Chinese should be killed and irradiated? that the Chinese or even their religion is the cause of all the worlds problems? doesn't sound like it to me from what you said. so i wouldn't classify it as "hate literature" as for it being there, of course it will be there as this IS where said religious groups get together so of course they will have things like that around. i would guess that there were also signs like "god love you" everywhere as well (go figure). so there is nothing nefarious there either.

now if you want you could go to your boss and tell them how uncomfortable that place made you feel. but watch out as by saying that you will admit about how you don't have any TOLERANCE for people who believe differently than you do. basically you would be labeled as the anti-religion BIGOT that you came across as in your post. that might not bode so well for you as showing non-tolerance in one area you might also be acting on it like a form of RACEISM against people who seem to be religious. they might also wonder what else you are raciest against.

I kind of agree that you are overreacting.

The atheists in my state fight to have crosses removed where law enforcement have lost their lives. I'm an atheist, and I think this is ridiculous.

You weren't asked to participate in any religious activities. The propaganda you mention in the OP was not tasteful, but was also not presented to you in any way. You picked it up and read it yourself. You've already sought legal advice, and your lawyer will advise you further, but personally I don't see that your company infringed on your rights in any way. I'm not sure that the lawyer would disagree.

reply to post by generik


I have no problem with anyone's religion or race. I do have a problem with religion being forced up;on me at a mandatory work related meeting.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


So I have a problem with over-priced worn out old sports equipment, and I don't appreciate being bombarded by it at every little neighborhood corporate sportsbar, but my employer is not really to blame for that? We can still have our meetings at Applebees and I can't do a thing about it.

I'm just saying, in my HR experience, including a couple of in-depth investigations, employers are only held accountable for their own actions, not the decorations of the venue.

My voting precinct is in a Southern Baptist Church! Think that gives any undue influence on voters? I think it does! You were just about to vote for that Pro-Choice candidate, but Jesus leering over you might change your opinion? But, it is a good central location with the facilities to handle the traffic load.

The venue was certainly chosen for what it could offer, and the price it could offer it at. If you chose to read the literature while you were there, then shame on you.

Originally posted by mustard seed
So we now must have religious Pee tests? Everyone swallowed that bit easily enough for a paycheck that is worth less now than when I graduated high school almost 40 yrs ago. While the wealthy, I mean ¨Job creators¨ incomes soared. So now what is the next boundary they will cross? I mean they already have folks happy to give up THE most intimate details of their very body, so why not your soul now too? You face the choice everyone must face ,only you are realizing the nature of the choice. What of myself will I give for this job? When do they ask too much and compensate too little? Am I willing to suffer hardship for my principles, or will I acquiesce and obey for the paycheck?.

seed

Obviously some are quite willing to give up some fundamental freedoms as a human being to become a wage slave. Notice "wage slave" as all personal determination has been removed from ones contract with an employer. Employment in America has become a paramilitary commitment of time, energy and personal freedom. Henry Ford would be ecstatic over the control that is being exerted in exchange for the dwindling jobs available. Your job now controls the output of your bladder, the allotment of your free time as well as on the clock in the form of company PR "voluntary events" and in some companies in texas and the south you best say your a "christian" and be seen in a church on sunday to succeed.
Swallow your freedom and cue up for the check.
seed

Oh Tater, just give in. You know you want to join the cult. They hve cookies after all

No but really, to address some of the responses to your dilemma:

A person's image IS theirs to control, unless you are in a public place. If you're in the street protesting for Baby Seal Abortion Rights, then anyone can snap a pic of you...fair game, you're putting it out there. If you choose to put your pic on ATS, great. It's your face, you understand the risks of putting it on the interwebz. BUT as for being pressured into releasing your image rights to a private group who are taking your picture (for purposes that you oppose) in a private venue...that's unacceptable and and infringement of your rights. Say you were supermodel material with a smoking hot body, and your local gym made you sign a photo release waiver. You aren't there to be a model, you're there to work out in peace. Would that be OK? At least in this hypothetical there isn't the pressure involved of keeping your hard-won job.

Some have expressed that the employer did nothing wrong since the "teambuilding" didn't directly include religious content. I disagree. The condition for employment (Mandatory Meeting) requires the employees to endure 4 hours at a facility in which indirect indoctrination was occurring. Murals, pictures, and well placed reading materials certainly expressed the intentions of the employer (assuming that this wasn't a fluke situation where the venue misrepresented their goals).

All that being said, I think I agree with DJM8507 (page 1). Be smart. Tolerate this for now, continue to document further abuses and build a sound case should it come to that. The stark reality is that in a bad economy, the employee holds much less power. When so many are out of work it's hard to find a sympathetic ear on these types of issues. Doesn't make you any less justified, mind you...just be smart about it.

For the people that don't see a problem with the situation the OP described, lets look at this a different way.

Say an office manager took his employees, many of them female, to a "teamwork building retreat" Now say, as a venue for this retreat, they chose a porn shop.

Do you think a woman who was forced by her employer to attend a meeting at a porno shop would have any grounds for a lawsuit? I do. Why is this any different? The employer chose the location of the venue, and the employer should have made sure it was an area that wouldn't be controversial or offensive to their employees.

Say one of the OP's coworkers was Muslim. Don't you think it's out of line to force a Muslim employee to view material that is basically degrading to their religion?

I'm not a person that generally supports being all politically correct and over sensitive. But the story the OP told is completely out of line. As an employee you are paid to work, as an employer you should act like a PROFESSIONAL and not FORCE your employees to be exposed to religious extremist literature.

I'll make another comparison. Say an employer took his employees to a teamwork building retreat at a Mosque. Say there was a pretty extreme brand of Islam being taught at this Mosque. They don't say anything about Islam during the meetings, but there are posters and brochures everywhere talking about the evils of America, how Christians are bad. The employer is FORCING people to view extremist Islam literature.

NONE of this is acceptable. It sickens me that employers are taking advantage of the weak economy to treat their employees like animals. It shows a HUGE lack of respect that an employer would FORCE their employees to be exposed to extremist literature of images. The attitude some of you seem to have that the OP should be lucky to have a job is a load of crap. The OP has a skill set that he is offering to an employer, and in turn the employer pays him for that. An employer has NO right to FORCE their employees to be involved with this kind of stuff. This is just downright disgusting. Almost as disgusting as the people that think this is OK just because the economy is bad.

Where has the respect for employees gone? You, as an employee are NOTHING. You are a piece of meat. You have no right to complain. You have no right to not be exposed to extremist religious materials. Yes you do, you are a human being and a worker, people need to realize it's NOT OK to treat employees like crap.

A few years back I worked at a warehouse that had a sales team and management that was 100% deeply religious people. Nobody in the warehouse was religious. The warehouse manager was promoted to a salesman, so he now moved into the office. Every morning, the office people would all do a large prayer circle before starting work. The new salesman, who used to be the warehouse manager, politely refused to take part in the prayer circle. The next day he was demoted to an order selector, not even his old job as warehouse manager that he had been doing for over 3 years. He quit, and he sued the company.

Me and him were good friends so we stayed in touch, he got a VERY LARGE settlement because the company didn't want to go to court. They knew they screwed up. You can't make your employees take part in a prayer circle. The story the OP has told doesn't seem much different. They are making it a requirement for their employees to be involved in religious activities, and that's wrong.

reply to post by mustard seed


If this was a blatant case of "go to church or you won't last long here" I would agree. In this case the OP chose to pick up and read a pamphlet, agreed to sign waivers to release pictures and liability in case of an injury while seeing religious pictures in the bathroom, so some personal responsibility is in order. The secret meeting is definitely strange and seems unusual but the rest may have been because the venue was cheap as other posters stated. If a boss was being coercive or prejudicial about religious beliefs and directly pushing his views while using his position to do so, I might agree, but in this situation that does not appear to be the case. I think tolerance for people who have beliefs you do not agree with is a 2 way street. Being intolerant of them for their apparent intolerance with Chinese culture does not add up to much tolerance for anyone or create a very good starting point for mutual respect possibly leading to some understanding and instead is priming the situation for conflict. As far as a legal case goes the ACLU is a good place to start but I believe 1 instance likely will not constitute harassment and that it has to be fairly pervasive before that it is considered to be the case

Here is a fact sheet from the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission:

hxxp://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/qanda_religion.html

Asking for an accommodation of a religious belief from your employer is always an option if you feel that the employer would not become defensive and retaliate. Reading the above article "Questions and Answers: Religious Discrimination in the Workplace" will at least give you an idea of your rights. Just get as much info as you can and do what feels right, every situation is different and it is hard to know exactly what that is when it is being related through a forum.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by generik

 

I have no problem with anyone's religion or race. I do have a problem with religion being forced upon me at a mandatory work related meeting.

So in the same vein, can an uber-Christian have a problem with non-religion being forced upon them at a mandatory work related meeting?

reply to post by hotbakedtater


You don't have to take this kind of BS from any employer. Call the state Labor Relations Board and fill out a complaint form. Call your attorney and start the cease and desist order with a threat of a class action for ALL the employes; And if they fire you, sue their ass off; Or settle out of court. You have a case!!

archive.eeoc.gov...
employment.findlaw.com... oyee-religion-workplace.html

I'm not an attorney but I play one on TV....really....watch "In Plain Sight" and "Breaking Bad"


edit...don't pay any attention to these authority worshiping members, they just want to fit you in the corporate/bureaucrat box they find themselves in.

Originally posted by James1982
For the people that don't see a problem with the situation the OP described, lets look at this a different way.

Say an office manager took his employees, many of them female, to a "teamwork building retreat" Now say, as a venue for this retreat, they chose a porn shop.

Do you think a woman who was forced by her employer to attend a meeting at a porno shop would have any grounds for a lawsuit? I do. Why is this any different? The employer chose the location of the venue, and the employer should have made sure it was an area that wouldn't be controversial or offensive to their employees.

would be a bad location just because they would likely be too busy making snide comments about the stuff to actually pay attention.

I'll make another comparison. Say an employer took his employees to a teamwork building retreat at a Mosque. Say there was a pretty extreme brand of Islam being taught at this Mosque. They don't say anything about Islam during the meetings, but there are posters and brochures everywhere talking about the evils of America, how Christians are bad. The employer is FORCING people to view extremist Islam literature.

i'd enjoy the chance to see it thanks. it might give me the chance to see how they see us.

in fact i think my favorite school trip was the one where we went to different religious buildings. lets see a Greek orthodox church, a catholic church, a Buddhist temple, both a non orthodox and orthodox Jewish temple, a mosque (which amusingly shred a parking lot with the non orthodox Jewish temple. there were others as well. i liked to see what others believe in especially as at each place the religious leaders would tell us about their faith. of course most religious buildings had pamphlets and such around for us to look at if we so CHOSE to. in fact the only problem that day was when we walked into the Buddhist temple and some of the Jewish kids freaked out at all the "swastikas" adorning almost every surface. but it gave the monk a good chance to explain that for them the hooked cross was a symbol of peace and harmony, and had nothing to do with the Germans. a lesson i am sure many of those kids learned that a symbol can mean something different depending on who is looking at it.

A few years back I worked at a warehouse that had a sales team and management that was 100% deeply religious people. Nobody in the warehouse was religious. The warehouse manager was promoted to a salesman, so he now moved into the office. Every morning, the office people would all do a large prayer circle before starting work. The new salesman, who used to be the warehouse manager, politely refused to take part in the prayer circle. The next day he was demoted to an order selector, not even his old job as warehouse manager that he had been doing for over 3 years. He quit, and he sued the company.

Me and him were good friends so we stayed in touch, he got a VERY LARGE settlement because the company didn't want to go to court. They knew they screwed up. You can't make your employees take part in a prayer circle. The story the OP has told doesn't seem much different. They are making it a requirement for their employees to be involved in religious activities, and that's wrong.

now THAT does sound like religious discrimination. and shouldn't be tolerated if that WAS the REAL reason behind the demotion. but alas even if it wasn't the company really had no choice but to settle as there was at least the APPEARANCE of persecution. sometimes perception can be stronger than the TRUTH.

reply to post by James1982


Sadly we have several Muslims that have to attend this travesty.

Here is what the government pamphlet on religious discrimination says.
4. What constitutes religious harassment under Title VII?

Religious harassment in violation of Title VII occurs when employees are: (1) required or coerced to abandon, alter, or adopt a religious practice as a condition of employment (this type of “quid pro quo” harassment may also give rise to a disparate treatment or denial of accommodation claim in some circumstances); or (2) subjected to unwelcome statements or conduct that is based on religion and is so severe or pervasive that the individual being harassed reasonably finds the work environment to be hostile or abusive, and there is a basis for holding the employer liable.

If I were in your shoes, I would wait until my probationary period was up before I did anything.
Then if I were required to attend another meeting, I would politely ask if it was being held in a religious facility. If they say it is, then I would point out that I was offended by some of the literature that was at the last retreat and would prefer that the religious material be picked up before you have the event.

I don't think that you were assaulted. You chose to read the pamphlet. At any point in time you could have put it down.

I don't think that the constitution of the US guarantees you freedom from religion, it guarantees freedom of religion. If you are so sensitive that you cannot read literature or see a picture, then I think that you need professional help.

reply to post by Wildbob77


My personal sensitivity level is not the issue, I am only sensitive to my civil rights and freedoms being trampled. I should be be able to work my job f4ree from being forced to attend mandatory meetings in religious places. That is not being sensitive that is being offended that I am forced into a house of religion as a stipulation of my employment, and I am offended my photo will be used for something I did not choose for it to be used as, religious propaganda.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Greetings to you, hotbakedtater. If that avatar is you, you are very pretty.
I am appalled by this post! I cannot see a violation of Constitution, but isn't a company expected to respect the 1st Amendment, Freedom of Religious and practice thereof? But to do this to a company employee, especially one who is offended by this, as I myself would have been, is something else. This just goes to show how Christianity is attempting to take over America, and make us all join their cult. I am on your side here, you may pick my Constitutional/Common Law oriented brain all you like.

My place of work has all the staff attend a mandatory teamwork meeting. I ask around about this meeting, and am told it is a Secret, even the location, as it is being held off worksite.

That right there tells you something sinister is up, mandatory, secret, and off corporate property, at a religious site. I believe you have grounds for a lawsuit, based on assault. An assault on the mind is no better, or worse that a physical assault, is is still an assault. Also, if it offends your religion, whatever it may be, you may have some grounds there too. I would also check into Civil rights violation. Here are some case law, and ideas for you.
Here is a Hate Crime angle. I have bolded the pertinent key words:

Key Federal Hate Crime Statutes:
Federally Protected Activities, 18 U.S.C. § 245.

The portion of Section 245 of Title 18 which is primarily enforced by the Criminal Section of the Civil Rights Division makes it unlawful to willfully injure, intimidate or interfere with any person, or to attempt to do so, by force or threat of force, BECAUSE OF that other person’s race, color, religion or national origin AND BECAUSE he or she is, or has been, engaging in one of six specifically-enumerated activities:

-Enrolling in or attending a public school or public college;
Participating in or enjoying a benefit, service, privilege, program, facility or activity provided or administered by a state or local government; -Applying for or enjoying employment, or any perquisite thereof, by a private or state employer; -Serving as a juror or prospective juror in state court; -Traveling in or using any facility of interstate commerce or transportation; -Enjoying the services of a place of public accommodation, including a hotel, motels, restaurant, bar, gas station, theater, concert hall, sports arena, or other place of entertainment.

A violation of this statute is a misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in prison, unless the offense involves an aggravating circumstance. If the crime results in bodily injury or involves a dangerous weapon or fire, the crime is punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment; if the offense results in death or involves kidnapping or aggravated sexual abuse, the crime is punishable by any term up to life, or by the death penalty.

source

Check this: Religious Freedom as Defined by Congress:

SEC. 2.
FINDINGS; POLICY. [22 USC 6401.]
(a) Findings.‑‑Congress makes the following findings:

(1) The right to freedom of religion undergirds the very origin and existence of the United States. Many of our Nation's founders fled religious persecution abroad, cherishing in their hearts and minds the ideal of religious freedom. They established in law, as a fundamental right and as a pillar of our Nation, the right to freedom of religion. From its birth to this day, the United States has prized this legacy of religious freedom and honored this heritage by standing for religious freedom and offering refuge to those suffering religious persecution.

(2) Freedom of religious belief and practice is a universal human right and fundamental freedom articulated in numerous international instruments, including the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the Helsinki Accords, the Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief, the United Nations Charter, and the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms.

(3) Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights recognizes that ``Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. This right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance.''.

Article 18(1) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights recognizes that ``Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice, and teaching''. Governments have the responsibility to protect the fundamental rights of their citizens and to pursue justice for all. Religious freedom is a fundamental right of every individual, regardless of race, sex, country, creed, or nationality, and should never be arbitrarily abridged by any government.

source

To me, a Secular person, inflicting one's religious beliefs on others in the workplace should not be protected under any circumstances. Employers should be allowed to fire someone for criticizing gay or unmarried cohabitating co-workers, other religion people, Atheists, or for evangelizing to employees. These behaviors are not the free exercise of religion, but an attempt to deprive others of their free exercise of religion.

More importantly, employers should have to, by law, accommodate an employee’s refusal to perform the “essential religious functions”

I am really upset this morning, this experience has left me with negative feelings. I am considering speaking with one of my coworkers about this issue, I hope I don't get fired for speaking up, but if I don't say anything at all it might fester. It may not have been technically illegal (not convinced it was totally legal either, maybe a grey area), but it was a Teamwork exercise, and as a supposed member of the Team, I came away with extremely negative feelings, and feel as a good member of the Team I do need to share my feedback for the future projects. I hope they appreciate the couratge it will take me to speak up and appreciate the feedback, and not just gossip about me, I am going to go to number one, so if gossip spreads I will know the character of my leader.

Thanks for all the responses, appreciate the feedback.

For me, I am sure this will always be a struggle, the struggle of when to speak up and when to stay silent. Too many people remain silent all the time. I feel people like me are important, those of us who speak up over perceived injustice, our voice may be the one speaking for others too timid to do so themselves. And important to keep the freedom of speech active! I am an uneducated unskilled bottom wage slave worker, my jobs are a dime a dozen. I have experience no one can take away from me, I can find another job. My wonder is, after this experience and the nightmare at my last job (being locked in a closet with a male superior yelling at me!!) is there any place any business that truly respects its employees? I feel this entire Team work experience was hypocritical from management standards, because they chose a controversial place to hoild the meeting. I consider this place a cult, and did not appreciate being forced into a religious center for anything. They did not take into consideration not all of us are Christian and not all of us are comfortable around cults and cult members (I consider organized religion to be a cult).

Again, thanks for all of the replies and thoughts.

reply to post by autowrench


Thank you so much for this wonderful information, aw!

reply to post by hotbakedtater


I hope you read this before you talk to anyone.

but it was a Teamwork exercise, and as a supposed member of the Team, I came away with extremely negative feelings, and feel as a good member of the Team I do need to share my feedback for the future projects. I hope they appreciate the couratge it will take me to speak up and appreciate the feedback,

That is a good and valid concern, but here is some VERY IMPORTANT advice.

#1. Never talk to a co-worker about something such as this. Talk to a supervisor. Talking to a co-worker is gossip. It spreads negativity and poisons the environment, and if someone in my unit had a concern and handled it this way, it would shorten their career in my unit.

#2. When you talk to your supervisor. Approach it exactly as you did in the quote above. This was a "team building" exercise, but the venue was distracting and possibly even offensive, and you were left with negative feelings that were counter-productive to the goal of the exercise.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their own feelings and opinions, and in a good organization they are expected to share those feelings and opinions. Most decent supervisors realize there is a wide range of sensitivity, and we do our best to meet the needs of the whole unit.

In all dealings with supervisors, come with solutions in hand, not complaints and whining. Approach it positively. Example: "I know your objective with the team builder was to get us out of our typical work day, have some fun, and build some cameraderie, but the venue was a distraction. I would suggest a more neutral venue in the future, and I would be happy to participate and help coordinate the next team builder so it can be even more successful."

It isn't "brown-nosing" it is helping to solve a problem, find a solution, be proactive, etc., etc.

Good Luck!!