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England Riots! We The People Will Fight Back!

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posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil
Have you contacted your local supplier, I would be interested to hear what they said?

Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs:
map showing fluoride concentrations in water supplies of England and Wales

I know it's a little off-topic, but just to chime in - I contacted mine, Thames Water (I'm in Marlow, Buckinghamshire) and they told me they don't add any fluoride that's not already naturally in the water. I wonder if they were lying.




posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Dude i'm still payin for my education now......and i have a moderate job.....

Just what chance would you give the younger generation??

I'll tell ya one thing......

I'm glad i grew up when i did ......

Cause right now.... as i look out across Brum.....

There future is bleak.....

As i said i don't agree with how there going about things....

But whats happen'n is just a sympton ......

not the cause.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by lifttheveil
 


Ha, love the irony..

"Click on my name and see my posts, don't make assumptions..."

Well, that's rich coming from someone chucking the accusations and false assumptions around first, isn't it?

I don't have to assasinate your character anyway, you're doing a bang up job yourself.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by SecretFace
 


i'm from .... it don't matter.... lets just say i've done my time.....

and yeah, like your self worked my way out......

But lets not be under any illusion here.... these ent just kids " chavs " doing this.....

www.mirror.co.uk...

i don't care where ya from or what ya do......

my old dear taught me right from wrong ......

seems some people hear the message and others don't.... or just choose to ignore it.....



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by lifttheveil
 


Rubbish. Only 10% of the UK actually has flourideated water. The only Water regions that actively put flouride in the water are:

Anglian Water Services Ltd
Northumbrian Water Ltd
South Staffordshire Water plc
Severn Trent plc
United Utilities Water plc

Affecting 6 million people, only 10% of the UK. Thames Water, the UK's largest by far, does not although natural flourides such as calcium flouride may be present.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by truetrigger
 


Yeah, student loans take a while to pay off, but it's hardly breaking the bank is it?

I think the timescale for paying them off is in the order of 15-20 years.

Bottom line is, using the fee's as an excuse for a lack of opportunity shows simply a lack of understanding. No one has to pay for their education at Uni up front but certain sections of the media and politicians have deliberately made it seem the other way.

Don't forget, it was Blair who gave use Tuition fees in 2005 after promising not to in that years election and it is the Labour governments 13 years of unchecked spending that has forced the necessary budgetary decisions now.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


I'm not giving any excuses for the behaviour seen on our streets.

What i am saying is all the measures (like raising fees etc) that have been implemented to curb the debt bomb that the older generations have created, have caused a society with a 'lost' younger generation who have little or no propects, esp for the poorer.

They didn't create the mess we find ourselves in, but yet it is them who will have to deal with it in the long run.
Just how long will it take to pay back the money we owe?
Will my grandchild ( if i have one ) still be paying it back?

They are inheriting the problems we created...... or labour created as you say.....lol

I feel sorry for the younger generation.....

on a side note........

"Things got a bit out of hand & we'd had a few drinks. We smashed the place up and Boris set fire to the toilets" David Cameron,Oxford,1986

bloody minded young thug........ lol

did he face trial i wonder???
edit on 11-8-2011 by truetrigger because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-8-2011 by truetrigger because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by truetrigger
 


Dude, raising Uni fees would have had no effect on most of the cretins on the streets these past days, because I am willing to bet most of them can't even spell GCSE, let alone attain the A-levels needed to get into Uni.

As for paying back the national debt, we've has a national debt for about 400 years, we're always payign something back and the money we borrowed is on fixed term bonds of say 5 or 10 years.

If the budget can actually be made to go into surplus, then the entire debt will be paid off in a couple of decades, but I can guarantee that in the meantime, Labour will get back in recklessly spend again, continuing the cycle we have seen since the 60's.

Tory's in, fix budget, get blame for hardship, Labour get in, promise the world, spend all the money, get booted out when the hosue of cards collapse..

Wash, rinse and repeat...

At any rate, none of these idiots will ever be taking part in the "paying it back" because they'll either be on the dole for life or have such a low paying job due to apoor education they won't pay tax. It's the likes of you and me who actually did well at school and made something of ourselves that pays it back.

As for the little bit at the end about Cameron getting pissed, it's not really the same thing. I think everyone does somethign stupid as a kid, but I don't think anyone ever stepped up to the point of riot. At any rate, I believe they actually made good on the damages caused. Not that I am a Tory or Cameron fanboy, I am an English Democrats voter, but the Tories are the best of a bad bunch at this current time.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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ATTENTION

Just a friendly reminder to refrain from personal attacks or references in this thread. Please stick to discussing the topic at hand.


edit on 11-8-2011 by nyk537 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Lucifer84

Originally posted by The Revenant

Originally posted by Lucifer84
EDL are not fascist, I am constantly asked to be a member and I am not white.. Though the idiots that are shown on TV dont help


I'm sorry, but I know the EDL personally, I know what their members are capable of, and just how many of the EDL are members of the BNP, the EDP, the National Front.

They are racist. Clearly, unilaterally, and utterly. If you're of a non-white ethnic background and you're thinking of joining them, you're incredibly deluded. Or telling lies.

The Revenant.


I am not lying what benefit would that be to me?

2 people I know very well go to the protests, have you ever been? If so you would see the mix of people but only white idiots get on the TV...see whats happening there?

I do think they are still some idiots spoiling the image, all they want to stop is British traditions getting lost and replaced by foreign influence. - That may seem racist but its not.
I am indian and think Britain should stay British

Anyway back on topic I think the worst is over now, hopefully





I have to agree with this last post, the EDL is not racist they stand for British values and British traditions nothing more, there are members from the black communities & the Asian communities, one of the top guys in it is a Sikh,

I personally know a couple of member and one of them is an Indian, and none of them are racist, they just strongly disagree with Extremist Islamic's in the UK,

In my opinion that is not racist, but yes there are some who have high jacked this and there are some racist members within, very very few its not hard to understand why they have really,

Anyway, yes it does appear to have calmed down now i'm betting its as good as over now thanks to thos who come out and started the ANTI RIOT marches, these kids really didn't want to tangle with this lot so they have gone home, good job an all



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by BRITWARRIOR
 


This is true, the EDL has been protrayed as out and out racist, there are members within that are racist without a doubt, but generally the EDL are a group against the expansion of Islam in Britain, which they see as the biggest threat to British society and culture, as well as it's future. This is why many other religions are in it. The media won't say this, if they did, the membership numbers would shoot through the roof overnight, but this is well known on the streets. I live in South East London and at least around here that it is well known and I know a few mixed race lads that are members, although I wouldn't class them as anything but English, but that's what the EDL is.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by BRITWARRIOR
 


i will say this to you my friend...the thing that calmed the riots down....was the Rain....it was not anti riot squads....or the police....it was the rain......and the calm has allowed the mainstream time to regroup.....it is a strange phenomenom but it it does hold true...the weather does do strange things to stop people from coming out in mass numbers.

now these so called anti riots squads are not the answer...taking matters into our own hands...it would just heightened things where neighbor turns on neighbor....and in that case yet again gives even more powers to TPTB.

as had been said over and over throughout this thread if people care to listen...the riots are a symtom of the breakdown of society.

it is a showdown between the haves and have nots.

The haves call in the politicians and the police to sort things out...where the haves nots call upon each other to sort things out.

we the people fight back.....if the people really want to fight back they would go after the real perpetrators of this symtom.....

the perpetrators who think that when hard times hit....they should take away social programs that are there to help out during hard times...why would you fund these programs during goodtimes.....

the dole is there for when times get hard and people suffer hardship....so the great intellectuals decide....lets make the nuumbers count....let shift people from the dole.....onto jobseekers allowance and that why....guess what....it looks like we are a success as we have gotten so many people off the dole....."what a joke"

so go ahead and turn on the people whom are acting out because they see no real prospects or opportunity.

are the riotors right to do what theya re doing...NO.

but are they actually just reacting to a greater problem in society...YES.

I work very hard for my living and to support my family but i see less and less going to them as the corporates rake in fortunes off my working back,

Am i frustrated with how things are...yes as i watch my pension fund being depleted and i see board members upping their golden pots off my back.

heck maybe if i was a young lad and didn't have a family i might be out there running ramped on the streets myself.

now i hear that they want to also go after the parents of some of these kids.....when parents have had their hands tied behind their backs for years due to government interference in the family.

but hey......go ahead....fight back.....go after the disillusioned youth of today....take it out on them....make them pay yet again for our complacent mistakes of allowing ourselves to be brainwashed by those in charge.

go ahead and go for the throats of those whom we have been taking everydoor open to them and slamming it shut by allowing cutbacks of a ridiculous proportion.....blaming the poor who may rip off the dole for a few million here and there,,,,,,while the rich rip us off for Trillions on a regualr basis.

yep blame tha bloke who took the opportunity to take a lousy £400 tele while they may watch their mother die because they decide not to support a new cancer drug.

am i being a little duped......I think not.....the ones being duped are the ones who are listening to the rubbish comming out of the house of commons today about how they will exert more and more controls on the citizens of this country....way to go people.....you have bowed down and laid your souls right into their hands....hope you are proud of missing the point.

as was shown in this thread some of the people being charged are your fellow workers,friends, and neighbors.

why would these people stupe to such lows you might try to ask yourself that......could it be because they are hurting and they saw in an moment of distress a chance to get something for their families that they could never be able to afford working 9-5 at an asda or a tesco's.

could it be a moral breakdown of society on a whole as people lose control of the rights to raise their families in a proper and decent way because they have no right of disipline.

It is a sad day when people value their property more over the fate of people......I would say let all things burn if it would bring people to the understanding that life is not about how much you can accumulate in useless crap but more about how we learn to get along as people in a given society.....think deeply now....these people are looting for what.....useless stuff,,,,,,trying to get a bit of what the haves in society own....trying to get that little bit of the jones in their home.....trying to steal that piece or item they cannot afford(even through work).

and back again to the word work....WHAT WORK.

If all these people were working had some kind of fairly decent job....didn't have to work every hour god sends just to give it all away to the energy companies...taxes....the high price of food...Do you really honestly think we would even being seeing this kind of rioting.....I will change that...not rioting....looting.

pffffft......people of England fight back....pffffft.....the media yet again wins in duping the stupid public into believing what they want you to believe.

edit on 123131p://f44Thursday by plube because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Have any of you even thought of this.

That the "rioters" are just going to dissolve back into the community when theres pressure against them?

Personally,if i was a "rioter",thats what i would do.

Then id be the person with the "anti-rioters" saying "where are all the rioters gone"
Whilst being well aware of where they all are,back in the community.
Quite simple tactic really.

Seeming alot of people claim these "riots" are different from previous ones,dont you think of the chance that maybe these are people paid to do this?

Think about it,who in their right mind would attack their own community when they are no better off than themselves?

Just think about it,there may be more to this than we all think.




edit on 11-8-2011 by BillyBoBBizWorth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by BillyBoBBizWorth
 


Certain government agencies infiltrate various groups, and have been known to incite violence and riots, for a variety of reasons.

Put it another way - even before the met announced that officers had been brought in from other forces around the country, those area's started kicking off.

Where do you think that intel came from?

I'd bet a large amount of money that the mets dirty tricks squad, and SIS had a hand in this somewhere.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by BRITWARRIOR
 


Personally i hope they do snare some yobs.
The ordinary people have rights too, not just the "Chav"
a



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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I realize I am not a UK citizen and as such, my understanding of how the local culture dynamics work may be sub par as I have only spent two weeks in Manchester, but I'm old enough and have enough life experience enough to know that this haves and have nots' is pure BS.

If the Have nots' want what the haves' have, they need to get off their lazy arse and stop accepting hand outs and work towards their idea of what their life should be. I was a have not for the first 3 decades of my life and I got SICK of not being able to take my family where I wanted when I wanted. Did I riot, loot and pillage my city? Hell no! I mapped a life plan and stuck to it and I am right on the line of the haves now.

This seems to me to boil down to people wanting more free crap instead of putting in the blood, sweat and tears to EARN what they want.



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by plube
 



The rain contributed, but the public had enough, either way, thos rioters would have got there just deserves, with out a shadow of a doubt

edit on 11-8-2011 by BRITWARRIOR because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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The author of this thread "BRITWARRIOR" is obviously going to get arrested as being just another side of the violence. Violence to stop violence only means more violence. Violence is violence no matter what side of the political fence it is coming in from. Vigilantism is not going to be tolerated in the UK and is a form of terrorist activity.

I know that you might think this to be me just making some opportunistic propaganda, but is there a link between this kind of obviously mindless violence and the WW2 blitz against London by the German NAZI movement ? Same no doubt drug or alcohol induced autistic psychopathic insanity ? From what we can make of it all, it becomes clearer and clearer that the rioting morons are probably inspired by the same trotskyite anarchist revolutionary crap going on in other countries. As far as I understand there is far too much crime in London. From the BBC news reportage it would appear that on Thursday 4 August 2011 as the police in Tottenham intercepted a suspect, "Mark Duggan", on suspicion of possessing a fire arm, the suspect resisted arrest by pulling out the gun with which he then shot the police, which then resulted in the suspect being shot to death by the police. Gun and drugs crime in London. We must not fall into the trap of thinking that the associated riots in Tottenham and around about London are anything whatsoever to do with any legitimate political struggle for social justice. Anyone possessing a fire arm or blade is no longer a civilian, but becomes a militant combatant, terrorist, and as such are no longer protected by International Human Rights Law that protects only those who are civilians. Anyone holding in their possession a fire arm or blade should immediately hand in their weapons to the police. Petrol Bombs are a classification of fire arm. Rocks and stones although primative are none the less a weapon system. Thus these rioters are "enemy combatant" terrorist activity and might end up being fired on by Her Majesty's Royal Army. The rule of Law and Order must not be defeated. I advise that the government institute a nightime curfew. Anyone violating the curfew should be immediately shot dead ? That should put a stop to the idiotic youth who are terrorising the City of London with their nightime crime activities.

The law that I live by and which is holding us all bonded is called PRAECEPTAE CAELENIUM (tm). I did not read it in a book. You will not find it in any book. It was revealed to me by audio clairvoyance during the celebrations of the New Millennium in 2000. Summed up it basically means no sex and no drugs and no violence. (1) From eternity to eternity, infinity to infinity, there be the One Absolute. The One True God there be no other God. Her names are many but she be the one true God. The one judge there be no other judge. (2) La Deus Nostra, Notre Dame, Our Lady, The Holy Spirit, the cause the maker Cosmica. (3) Angelic [celestial immortal] powers of truth and beauty and righteousness be sure to be loving Her Holiness Above with all your mind and with all your heart and with all your strength. (4) So as to be pleasing to Her Holiness Above therefore do not be serving the masculine. (5) Do not be and do not allow masculinity into positions of government. (6) Honour and respect the virgin pureness of the christae. (7) Honour and respect the Immaculate Conception [parthenogenesis] reproductive process of the christae. (8) Do not fornicate or adulterate or sodomize. (9) Do not bully or torture or murder. (10) Do not lie. (11) Do not steal. (12) Do not be covetous. (13) Do not be jealous. Copyright (c) NGL 2000.

He who trusts in violence to be his security cannot speak that he trusts in God to be his security.



There has been much speculation about who the rioters are. This is a snapshot of the suspected rioters who were due to appear at one London magistrates' court in the course of one day.

As of 11 August, there have been more than 1,500 arrests across England and those who have been charged are being fast-tracked through the criminal justice system.

They are appearing at magistrates' court within hours and police are often only submitting a charge sheet for a case to be referred to court. Many of the courts are sitting through the night to process the defendants.

A full statistical picture is not yet available.

The graphs above represent the 56 people listed to appear at Camberwell Green Magistrates' Court in south London on Tuesday 10 August on disorder-related charges.

Not all the offences are public disorder. Many have been charged with non-domestic burglary in the vicinity of disorder and the stores targeted included Currys, Carphone Warehouse and H Samuel.

The defendants are broken down into gender, age, nature of the charge and location of the crime in relation to where they live. The crimes were all committed on Monday 8 August and Tuesday 9 August.

The court was open for longer than usual between 9am and 7pm. Defendants not listed may have been seen and the police or legal teams may have chosen to prioritise one case over another.

In addition to the fast-tracked riot defendants, the court also had to deal with the cases previously scheduled for that day.

Many theories have been posited about the underlying causes of the riots in England - from moral decay to excessive consumerism. Here two criminologists give their views on some of the arguments.

Welfare dependence

Sir Max Hastings, in an article for the Daily Mail, focused on "a perverted social ethos, which elevates personal freedom to an absolute, and denies the underclass the discipline - tough love - which alone might enable some of its members to escape from the swamp of dependency in which they live".

There is a culture of entitlement in the UK, says David Wilson, professor of criminology at Birmingham City University and a former prison governor.

"But it's not just about the underclass - it's about politicians, it's about bankers, it's about footballers.

"It's not just about a particular class, it permeates all levels of society. When we see politicians claiming for flat-screen TVs and getting jailed for fiddling their expenses, it's clear that young people of all classes aren't being given appropriate leadership."

Social exclusion

Writing in the Independent, Kids Company charity founder Camila Batmanghelidjh blamed a society in which the "established community is perceived to provide nothing... It's not one occasional attack on dignity, it's a repeated humiliation, being continuously dispossessed in a society rich with possession".

Studies do suggest that living in areas of social deprivation could be a factor, says Marian FitzGerald, visiting professor of criminology at the University of Kent.

"But the socially excluded are not always the ones who are rioting - in fact they are often the ones who are most vulnerable to riots. We need a better thought-out approach rather than just using social exclusion as an excuse."

Lack of fathers

According to Cristina Odone of the Daily Telegraph, the riots could be traced back to a lack of male role models: "Like the overwhelming majority of youth offenders behind bars, these gang members have one thing in common: no father at home."

"I brought up two boys on my own," says Prof FitzGerald. "Yes, there are some issues about where boys get a positive sense of masculinity from when they don't have anyone in the home to give it. But if you have a stable family set-up then these kids can still be very high-achieving."

Spending cuts

Speaking on the BBC's Newsnight, Labour's candidate for London Mayor, Ken Livingstone, suggested that austerity measures were responsible: "If you're making massive cuts, there's always the potential for this sort of revolt against that."

It's too soon to say this, Prof FitzGerald says. "The full implementation of the cuts to local authority services that will have the biggest impact on these areas will not be fully felt until next year.

"However, it may be that because there's been so much talk about police spending cuts, the rioters may have internalised the message that they're less likely to be caught."

Weak policing

In a leader, the Sun newspaper said it was "crazy" that water cannon was not available to officers, and that parliament "must not be squeamish" about the use of tear gas and baton rounds.

There has also been discussion about the impact of the fall-out from criticism of policing during the G20 protests in London in 2009. Some commentators have suggested officers might be afraid of taking on the rioters directly for fear of legal action.

It may have made some difference if the rioters had been more immediately engaged with a more robust form of policing, says Prof Wilson.

"Several of the rioters who were interviewed clearly enjoyed the feeling of being powerful. They were encouraged to feel that the cities in which they were misbehaving belonged to them.

"However, I don't think that has anything to do with political correctness. What has characterised British justice over the past 25-30 years is the large numbers of young people we have sent to prison compared with our European neighbours."

Racism

Violence began in Tottenham on Saturday after the fatal shooting by police of Mark Duggan, a 29-year-old black man. Christina Patterson of the Independent said the race factor could not be overlooked: "Too many black men have been killed by the police. Too many black men and women have been treated like criminals when they're not. This is not the cause of these riots, but it's there in the mix."

Police shootings are very rare, Prof FitzGerald notes.

"According to IPCC reports in the last three years there have only been seven and all of those - including the shooting of Raoul Moat - were of white people.

"The Met police has seen huge changes in attitude since the Macpherson report. That said, its use of section 60 stop-and-search powers disproportionately brought normally law-abiding young black people in particular into potentially confrontational encounters with the police.

"However, this is not true of many of the other police forces who are now facing similar threats to public order - so it cannot be used as any sort of excuse."

Gangsta rap and culture

Paul Routledge of the Daily Mirror blamed "the pernicious culture of hatred around rap music, which glorifies violence and loathing of authority (especially the police but including parents), exalts trashy materialism and raves about drugs".

It's certainly clear that gang culture is a real phenomenon, says Prof Wilson.

"I once interviewed a boy who said 'just because I like the music doesn't mean I agree with the lyrics', which is true," says Prof FitzGerald. "But it may be a factor when it comes to those who may be particularly susceptible."

Consumerism

"These are shopping riots, characterised by their consumer choices," insisted Zoe Williams of the Guardian. She added: "This is what happens when people don't have anything, when they have their noses constantly rubbed in stuff they can't afford, and they have no reason ever to believe that they will be able to afford it."

In studies of street crime, this has been shown to be a factor, says Prof FitzGerald.

"But with the recent riots, I'm not so sure - in the context of looting, it's about taking what you can. As well as mobile phones and clothes, there were plenty stealing petty things like sweets and cans of beer."

Opportunism

"As more and more people became embroiled in the riots, others have been tempted to join them, confident that one unexceptional individual in a sea of hundreds is unlikely to be caught or to face retribution," according to Carolina Bracken writing in the Irish Times.

This is credible, says Prof Wilson. "Opportunism, mixed with a sense of being in a big gang, will have enticed many who wouldn't necessarily do something like this normally.

"Also significant is the feeling of invulnerability because they are part of something so big. Also linked to this is the feeling of doing something transgressive and feeling powerful in a culture where they don't have much power.

Technology and social networking

"Social media and other methods have been used to organise these levels of greed and criminality," Steve Kavanagh, the deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan police, told reporters.

This is an under-explored phenomenon, suggests Prof Wilson.

"For years we've been aware of gangs and football hooligans have been using technology to get together and fight. I think the police have been quite slow to respond to this.

"But as we know, mobile phones can also be used to counteract criminality and to an extent I think that's something the police prefer to downplay."

AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS
edit on 11/8/2011 by CAELENIUM because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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Is the rioting still going on over their in England?
edit on 11-8-2011 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Certain government agencies infiltrate various groups, and have been known to incite violence and riots, for a variety of reasons. Put it another way - even before the met announced that officers had been brought in from other forces around the country, those area's started kicking off. Where do you think that intel came from? I'd bet a large amount of money that the mets dirty tricks squad, and SIS had a hand in this somewhere.


Yer exactly,thats the kind of information that makes me think of what i said even more.

I wouldnt be surprised if one day we find out,thats exactly what it was,hopefully sooner than later would be nice for once though.

Cheers




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