Because The State Loves You

reply to post by yrwehere1


Poppycock! Abuse of power is never ok! Just look to the UK and Israel. Even though no one is talking about it there are 100,000+ marching on Tel Aviv as we speak.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


How is it subversion when you only seek a redress of legitimate grievances?

There is a swath of trampling upon the Constitutional principals at this point. This much is obvious.

How is it "wrong" to seek for actual real life criminals who commit mass fraud or incite wars over totally criminal reasons, or to create mass racketeering and ponzi schemes and then force them unto the public, to be investigated with legitimate means and then charged with corresponding crimes and placed into custody pending their trials.

How is it "bad" to seek out treason and have it stopped?

Treason against who? The People? You and I? Aren't we suppose to be the government in the first place? Self-responsible citizens capable of exercising their rights responsibly and respecting the rights of other human beings. Civilized?

There is no way in hell that could be 'subversive' because by definition, we want the subversive forces that are subverting the people's right to govern themselves by using force to implement control over us to stop.

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by yrwehere1

 

Poppycock! Abuse of power is never ok! Just look to the UK and Israel. Even though no one is talking about it there are 100,000+ marching on Tel Aviv as we speak.

edit on 10-8-2011 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

I haven't heard about that. Interesting.

Thanks I'll go look it up.

Also the comment above was not directed against you but against your sarcastic comment, which I assume is most certainly sarcasm. So I know I wasn't arguing against you but had to take the opportunity to make a killer point.

This is actually awesome.

People are actually realizing they want to be free worldwide.

You have no idea how pleased I am with the massive effects that education are having by communicating with each other and sharing these ideas. Look how it's spreading. Wildfire.

Freedom is hot, it always is. But you gotta fan the flames all the time. It goes out so quickly if we don't maintain it.

It all boils down to science, we all have a survival mechanism that guides us.

The math adds up, freedom grants higher survival odds. Less wars, less corruption, less oppression, less crime.

Once educated properly in the philosophical concepts of Freedom, anyone will see the Truth. They want to improve their own situation economically, spiritually, mentally, physically, and the situation of their children, by reclaiming their inherent right to self-determination and liberty that we have allowed governments and corporations to usurp.

You know what this means right? The bad guys only have one option left.
To incite war. That's their last card.

We don't have to play this game anymore though. Don't let them play that card.

reply to post by muzzleflash


They estimate another 100,000 are on the streets of Jerusalem. All of Israel is in protest.

reply to post by mnemeth1


Actually it is the system of capitalism that is really robbing you. We've had this discussion before.

Capitalists takes the majority wealth created by your labour for themselves, creating an imbalance in wealth that leads to poverty and all the social problems that causes.

The state is the inevitable result of capitalism. Capitalism itself creates a hierarchical system, which is in itself a state system. The state is any system that allows one class of people to lord over another.

Capitalists will always require protection for their capital. Without it there is nothing stopping workers from taking over their work places. The state is designed to protect the privileged of capitalist ownership of the means of production.

I already proved to you in this thread...www.abovetopsecret.com...
that your idea of what capitalism, and anarchism are, is based on a lot of misconceptions. Capitalism is not free-markets etc. It is not the only system that can make that claim. The only unique thing to capitalism is the 'private ownership of the means of production'. Which means our ability to provide for ourselves is at the mercy of the few privileged owners.

Don't let this guy fool you folks, go get a sense of history, and what has really happened politically since the industrial revolution. We will never have a state free society until we have a capitalist free society. A society where everyone has access to the machinery, tools, land etc., needed for survival.

We have the ability right now to feed everyone on this planet but we don't, why? Because capitalism cares only for itself. Money is an illusion for power and control, and poverty is a lack of resources.

In the developing world, more than 1.2 billion people currently live below the international poverty line, earning less than $1 per day.

Hunger persists in the U.S: (Source)
38.2 million people—including 14 million children—live in households that experience hunger or the risk of hunger. This represents more than one in ten households in the United States (11.9 percent). This is an increase of 1.9 million, from 36.3, million in 2003.

millionsofmouths.com...

“There is more than enough water in the world for domestic purposes, for agriculture and for industry. The problem is that some people – notably the poor – are systematically excluded from access by their poverty, by their limited legal rights or by public policies that limit access to the infrastructures that provide water for life and for livelihoods.”

-Page 3 of the Human Development Report 2006, Beyond Scarcity: Power, Poverty and the Global Water Crisis at

hdr.undp.org...

mysite.verizon.net...

“Our planet produces enough food to feed its entire population. Yet, tonight, 854 million women, men and children will be going to sleep on an empty stomach.”

-Address by Dr Jacques Diouf, the Director-General of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) at the World Food Day Ceremony in Rome on October 16, 2007, at /3yfszk on page 2.

mysite.verizon.net...

It's capitalism that has caused this, the lack of availability of the means of production, because it is owned by the few who monopolize it for their own benefit, the state is just a result of that. Give people what they need to survive, and they will survive. No need for handouts, no need for us the people to finance the solution to the problems capitalism causes.

reply to post by mnemeth1


I say we f**kin kill the state

reply to post by longstalker


You gotta have the state or you would be speaking Chinese or Russian in no time at all. All in all we have a pretty just state. We just need to end the corruption and possibly redesign our political systems.

reply to post by ANOK


LOL

No.

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by longstalker

 

You gotta have the state or you would be speaking Chinese or Russian in no time at all. All and all we have pretty just state. We just need to end the corruption and possibly redesign our political systems.

Political systems imply that other people can chose someone to run your life.

This is unacceptable in a free society.

You don't need political systems to have property rights protection.

Bouncers at night clubs and armored car delivery men don't need a State to ensure they do their job of protecting private property.

Originally posted by longstalker
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

I say we f**kin kill the state

Let us try our best to avoid continuing this circle of tyranny and violence.

All human beings have rights. The state doesn't exist it's an idea you can either reject or accept, however the deluded individuals who claim to represent that ideal are still human beings just like all of us. They have rights just like we do.

We cannot just trample their rights, because that will make us the new despots.

We have to respect the rights of all beings, and they deserve due process and a fair trial. However, there are very serious charges here so all of the parties involved should probably be held in custody pending their trials, for obvious reasons.

If the legitimate procedures had been taken in the first place, none of this would have been possible. However they subverted the system and used fraud and deception to gain an upper hand and implant this treachery.

OH the world would be so peace and calm, if only i had a hydrogen bomb

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by longstalker

 

You gotta have the state or you would be speaking Chinese or Russian in no time at all. All in all we have a pretty just state. We just need to end the corruption and possibly redesign our political systems.

edit on 10-8-2011 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

No, because the only possible mechanism to force me to speak Chinese or Russian is the "state".

So without the "state" , there is a exceptionally low probability I would ever have the opportunity to be forced into speaking those languages.

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by longstalker

 

You gotta have the state or you would be speaking Chinese or Russian in no time at all. All and all we have pretty just state. We just need to end the corruption and possibly redesign our political systems.

The problem is we have politics controlling economy, because the government/state is ran by and for capitalists.

If the people owned the means of production, and resources were not kept artificially scarce in order to keep prices high, then we wouldn't need protection from other nations, and we wouldn't need the state or government operating under the illusion of 'protecting' us. Of course in reality it does not protect us, it protects privilege.

The state is violent, but that violence is a result of the institutions that make up the state, capitalism and it's protection, not the state itself. Replace capitalism with a more fair system, and the present state system will also be replaced with a more fair system.

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by longstalker

 

You gotta have the state or you would be speaking Chinese or Russian in no time at all. All and all we have pretty just state. We just need to end the corruption and possibly redesign our political systems.

Political systems imply that other people can chose someone to run your life.

This is unacceptable in a free society.

You don't need political systems to have property rights protection.

Bouncers at night clubs and armored car delivery men don't need a State to ensure they do their job of protecting private property.

The best form of security for the human species is to spread information and educate each other about respecting each other's property rights in the first place, then there would be no need to sink precious resources into merely protecting ourselves from ourselves.

Think of all of the resources we would save, and all of the heart-ache and problems that would be avoided.

If only we were educated enough to understand how to respect each other's liberty.

reply to post by ANOK


How about let's replace it with no system?

How about every individual work out their own personal system in life, and respect everyone's right to choose their own path?

Yeah, that's what I would call "fair".

Also, I would call it civilized.

reply to post by mnemeth1


We need the social programs, welfare etc as well. They are all that have garnered the way of life we enjoy. Without them one would expect to see Americans living more like those in Lagos or similar. Shanty towns would be the norm in place of the well kept yards you are used to.

We need subsidies to keep our crops competitive in the global market and to ensure that no American starves. We need the EPA to keep our lands safe from greed and big business.

The problem is not the state, but rather corruption and public manipulation. I know you wont watch it, but just in case this is the best documentary about manipulation I have ever seen.
veehd.com...

You need an account to watch Veehd movies.

In all actuality, wealth is an illusion. At some point in the past, someone decided that a piece of gold colored metal they found on the ground was worth something. Another person saw it, and just had to have it. From that point on we have waged war after war in our quest to stockpile as much of it as we could. We have substituted that gold colored metal for printed paper, and deemed it to be worth something, and we once again sought to collect as much as we could.

The reality is that money exists because we let it exist. If people went back to a barter system there would be no need for money, gold or anything else. A simple, I make this that you need, and you make that which I need. A simple trade for needs. So I have a bigger TV than you. You make trades until you can trade up for the bigger one. The more you have to trade, the more you get. Simple.

But no, we have to bastardize anything we touch and make it perverted. If there were no gold, then land would be the money of choice. Why? Because we all know that the land provides sustenance for our survival. If you have a lot of land, you ensure you can provide for you and yours fairly easily. This is why we have real estate in the first place. To keep others from taking what you work for your survival. Although since we bastardized everything, most land does not provide anymore. It is a way to make dollars or gold.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


The FDA works for Monsanto, if you would like I could post an endless list of articles such as:

reason.com...

The EPA works for Dow Chemical, if you would like I could post an endless list of articles such as:

this

And since taking wealth from some people and giving it to other people doesn't actually create any new wealth, society would be richer if wealth was left in the hands of those who actually produce.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


There is no need for any programs. If people were not taxed to fund those pointless programs, they wouldn't be so broke they would need the programs in the first place.

In a free fair market , every individual reaps what they sew. So people sew a lot, in hopes to reap a lot of rewards. With no mafia to come give you a shake-down, you do not get robbed. This would translate as your standard of living increasing by large factors.

In a free fair market, people are educated and responsible, and do not support corporations that commit heinous acts against the public, those corporations fail because we vote with our $$$ and choose not to support their practices.

This again increases the standards of living by reducing pollution and reducing other negative acts corporations commit on local peoples globally.

But in a market that is controlled, anything bad can happen and you can't do anything to stop it.

In a free market you and I have ultimate control because we can choose where 100% of the fruits of our labor go to.

Public works will occur due to demand features in a free market, there is no need for a government apparatus to create incentive for this at all. The benefit of the works are all of the incentive that is required.

We would surely advance and prosper as a society with freedom. And you would definitely have more buying power and you would probably have a better job as well, one you actually like.