ATS's flawed flagging stystem and ATS's "spamming" of own users

Which is why the flag system as it stands is utterly pointless. Flags are not a sign of a thread's quality anymore like they should be.

reply to post by Nosred


But why say this then,

No, we want to put the decision of which threads are important and which threads aren't into the member's hands, that's what the flag system was originally for in the first place.

What changed in the function of the flag system then? Why do you feel the need to show wich threads are not important?

Let´s just point out threads that most find important.

Then why do you want the flagging system in the first place? That's all it is, mob rule over which threads are important. Either ditch flags altogether, or give an anti-flag option to balance it out.

The majority is favorited yes, but the consequence is not the directly decrease of any thread´s viability, the unflag feature would directly decrease a thread´s viability.

Unilag doesn´t balance things at all.

Where do you get the notion there needs to be some protection against what isn't on the main page? Anti-flagging something wouldn't make it invisible, it would just stop these "OMG UFO WE ALL GONNA' DIE" threads from popping up all over the place. Hell, half the reason people even make sensationalist threads like those is to get flags.

Because, again, unflag is a tool to directly decrease a thread´s lifetime. Again, you guys purely want this because of personal motives, you clearly have a problem with some threads, and don´t want them to get exposure.

it´s negative energy.

Learn to live with it.

And why would they make accounts to anti-flag threads? Anti-flagging something wouldn't make it invisible or stop people from seeing it.

Then why do you want it, what is the advantage that makes you want it? You said it balances things out, so if flagging brings threads to attention, doesn´t unflagging bring them less attention?

That's how the flag system already works today. People flag threads they agree with, the rest get forgotten. Either dispose of flags or balance it out with anti-flags. A lot of quality threads get buried because some doomsday flag is getting hundreds of flags and put on the front page while the quality thread gets buried and forgotten.

Maybe the problem is more with the membership than the flag system.

Your unflag idea, does not give those buried threads more flags, so even if you unflag some threads, the unflagged threads still remain unflagged.

What you want is a way to repair a membership that is flagging the wrong things, according to you.

You don't find it tyrannical that ATS only considers the opinions of those that agree with something? If you disagree with something you have no right to say so?

The most exposure is given to the most popular topics, it´s not the fault of the system, wich topics are chosen, it´s the membership.

In a democracy, do you get to unvote the candidate you are not supporting, or do you vote for the one you support?

I'm a tyrant because I want to give people more options in voicing their opinions of which threads they think are important or quality?

You want to give people more options to voice what is not important and not quality, it´s not the same, it´s negative energy, with negative implications.

Then why have a flagging system at all? That's what it's for anyways, to voice what you think is important and what you think people should read. Good threads go unnoticed because people are focused on sensationalist threads that contribute nothing but get tons of flags, is that what you want?

In a perfect world, the majority of this society should be able to pick the quality topics. If this is not the case, the problem lies with the membership, not the flagging sytem.

Your proposal to fix this with unflagging, will not work, as I have pointed out, it still would not get other threads more flags, because it doesn´t change the membership´s interests.

sadly, the problem isn't the system
the problem is the people using it

if you changed it, you'd see the same thing repeated - any adjustment of the system will still only represent the majority - and I believe the majority is lacking..

the only solution I see, is get rid of rating systems altogether


in fact, I see a lot of the more quality members say that, they don't even bother to give out stars anymore

so yeah - pick a label (trolls/sheeple/etc) - they still "flock" together - any rating system will only represent the flock - everyone else will get buried

reply to post by Nosred


I want to apologize for calling you guys fascists, I guess you probably are only concerned with the quality of ATS, still your proposal will not change that.

Originally posted by Nosred
The flag system is designed to bring important threads to the attention of the users. However, as it's being used today all we get are "OMG THE WORLDS GONNA ENDZ!!!!1!!!!!1" type threads clogging up the front page and thus the flagging system has lost all meaning in telling us whether a thread is a good contribution to the site or not.

Seems to me this should be telling you something. People flag and star threads and posts why? Because they find them interesting or perhaps they agree with them. Oh, there are a few contrarians calling attention to themselves if they don't treat it that way, but that's the general idea. In other words, these threads you don't like reflect the interests of the membership as a whole. Not you, of course. But by and large those threads are what floats the boats of many people here.

You've chosen to "enter this bar" and keep this company. The real question is, why are you treating yourself so badly? Are you a masochist and secretly enjoy this torture? Do you come here to make fun of everyone else? Seriously, if it's so bad why are you spending time here? This is not a democracy. You don't get to change the decor if you don't like it. Your sole and only power here is to decide whether to be here or not. I don't tend to frequent bars where I don't like the company. Seems to me you need to make a similar decision.

This topic comes up all too often. I see people complaining about quality threads not going anywhere and worthless threads piled with flags, or the stupid smart a** comments with a hundred stars and the logical well thought posts with no stars at all. Yes, I see it, and it frustrates me to no end as I usually am not one to be a smart a** and think about what I post.
In my opinion, it is not the fault of ATS, nor is it the fault of the system used. It is not even the quality of the site. Its the members and their quality.

I see a couple of good examples as to why the site is straying, as it is, within this very thread. As I see them:

1. Each time this topic is brought up, it is directed at the system not the people using it("the system needs to change not the members" seems to be the common comment)
2. Older members don't use the feature anymore. They are the ones who should be doing it the most for two reasons:
a. to set an example
b. Playing an active roll in the direction of the quality of the site.

As I see it what people are asking for with a form of negative flag is the ability to negate another posters opinion. Please don't get me wrong, as I am one who enjoys getting flags and stars and I give them when they are due, but I try to make my posts worth while to earn them. I do see the Blatant disregard of the hard research some of us do by the lack of stars and flags, while others with nothing to add rack them up, but it is the members not the system.

The real question is;

How do we get members to understand and reward for serious posts, move away from the smart a** comments, and to stop drawing attention to uneducated, non researched, basic posts that are not a serious question in order to learn?

As I see it, the answer is; Educate and Ignore.

If you choose to engage a comment, it should be polite with instruction about the seriousness of a post and then let go there is no reason to continue the argument except to derail or destroy a thread. A "Troll" will engage in conflict for conflicts sake. Those that disagree with a post should give opinions as to why, not just attack with a simple statement of degrade. ATS is what we, the members, make it, not how the administrators program it.

BE THE CHANGE


Edit to say: As for the "Mass U2Us" I feel, I get the site for free, I get to use U2Us for free, I get to use the Chat system for free, I get to listen to radio programs for free, I get to express my opinion on any subject for free, I get to learn for free, I get to educate for free, I get a slew of moderators keeping this site clean for free, I get to meet people from all over the planet for free, I get my news and in some cases an inside track for free, I even get to be reprimanded for free. So, I personally don't mind an occasional U2U on a poll I might be interested in because, it could help the administrators to better the site, it could add a topic to Chat or ATS Radio, it could expand on a major topic of current events, or it could show how the "Family" is split on topics effecting us as a whole. To be honest, why shouldn't someone who provides all of this not be able to inform you of site activities?
Just my simple opinion.

reply to post by Agarta

isn't that what I just said?

can you change the blue font? its difficult to read - I had to highlight it to read it

I do appreciate your agreeing with me - but didn't star me - completely makes my point yeah?


I just wanted to add - I've never been U2U spammed...
aside from the poll topics.. I've never been spammed at all and I don't consider that spam - I consider it "site activity notification"

makes me wonder what kind of spam you and the OP are getting

reply to post by Forevever


Hi Forevever,

Sorry for the blue, I was just trying a little used function.(As you know I can't edit it now)
Yes, We do agree, for the most part. I did not star your post because of your proposed solution(that is how I saw it)

the only solution I see, is get rid of rating systems altogether

I am not for getting rid of them just a change in their usage back to what they were designed for.

reply to post by Agarta


I agree there needs to be something in place to compensate for the original function - I just don't know how to work it

its difficult to get the "masses" to comply with proper usage.... it'll just turn into a conspiracy theory against ATS As the system stands, and the problem being the people.... just leads into a whole other mess of issues.


in hindsight I hoped you wouldn't take my message negatively, I really was implying that you're a quality member by not staring me I'm glad you understood ♥