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E-cat: Rossi breaks with Greek Defkalion

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posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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E-cat: Rossi breaks with Greek Defkalion


www.nyteknik.se

Andrea Rossi, inventor of the ‘E-cat’, has terminated his agreement with the Greek pilot customer Defkalion. The planned launch of a one megawatt heat plant in October is now supposed to take place in the United States.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Interesting, so the USA just couldn´t let someone else have it. I guess this is for real then.
Another interestng bit from the article is that already over 200 companies from 47 different countries are prepared to pay rossi the 40.5 million euros each to have exlusive distribution rights in their respective country.

What about all the poor people working with alternative energy generation today, such as wind power, nuclear, geothermal, dams etc. My guess is they will all soon be out of a job, or at the very least suffer severe payment reductions. Also the price of nickel should rise, rather steeply in the coming months.

Interesting times,indeed.

www.nyteknik.se
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by NeoVain
 


Just in time to rebalance the scales of power? Or perhaps we talked him into it with a cheesesteak.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by NeoVain


Interesting, so the USA just couldn´t let someone else have it. I guess this is for real then.
Another interestng bit from the article is that already over 200 companies from 47 different countries are prepared to pay rossi the 40.5 million euros each to have exlusive distribution rights in their respective country.

What about all the poor people working with alternative energy generation today, such as wind power, nuclear, geothermal, dams etc. My guess is they will all soon be out of a job, or at the very least suffer severe payment reductions. Also the price of nickel should rise, rather steeply in the coming months.

Interesting times,indeed.

www.nyteknik.se
(visit the link for the full news article)

wow, sensationalize much?
the US didn't abscond, claim, take, steal or hoard anything ... as you imply.
If you read the story you linked ... the project is going forward and the original contract has been terminated.

It is a contractual issue, nothing more.
geeeeesh ... the story also indicates that ...

1. the indicated license fee is for establishing manufacturing plants
2. 200 companies in 47 countries are prepared to pay the license fee - (how many of those countries are financially solvent? - i do wonder how any of them can afford the fee)
3. 17 have already signed agreements with the original contractor, who has since been terminated.
4. There is no mention of "exclusive rights" for any country.
5 No monies have been exchanged
6. Release scheduled for October --> whatever the location, negotiations will continue with original contractor.


These companies received a message from Defkalion stating that the license fee for manufacturing Defkalion’s products in a country amounted to EUR 40.5 million, per plant. This included training and help to establish the factory.

According to Alexandros Xanthoulis, over 200 companies in 47 countries are now prepared to pay the license fee, out of which 17 companies have signed an agreement with Defkalion. No financial transactions has still been made though.

Alexandros Xanthoulis also confirmed that Defkalion hasn't yet paid any money to Rossi or to his companies.

fear monger much? many are already out of a job ... what makes you think a new invention/system will cut more ??
ps: distribution rights and manufacturing plants or quite different. No star for you.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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I hope so bad that this technology doesn't get sabotaged. Rossi said that he decided to not build in Greece based only off of "financial" issues; meaning the US probably paid him a substantial amount. However, if he can be bribed to change from building in one country to another, perhaps he can be bribed into just trashing the project altogether? Maybe his research and blueprints will become "lost" and the only remaining reactors messed with to fail to produce. Seriously...we need this. Go away elites.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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No one is going to lose a job anywhere if these plants come online.
There has to be redundant sources of power available everywhere.
One type of power is not a good idea. If disruptions in the supply of fuel occur we would be out of power.

This added alongside coal, gas, nuclear, wind and solar would be great. Spur factory jobs. spur technical jobs. get the economy going.

win win



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by grey580
No one is going to lose a job anywhere if these plants come online.
There has to be redundant sources of power available everywhere.
One type of power is not a good idea. If disruptions in the supply of fuel occur we would be out of power.

This added alongside coal, gas, nuclear, wind and solar would be great. Spur factory jobs. spur technical jobs. get the economy going.

win win


Except none of those alternatives will be competitive with this revolutionary technology, the only reason they all exist today is that they are fairly competitive with each other, under certain circumstances. There are already lots of other ways to generate electricity which are not commercially used, simply because they are not cost effective. Examples:null point energy generators(to small amount of energy generated), vibration energy (used in some wrist watches) and extreme examples just to make a point: aerobics machines strapped with dynamos (humans need wages),

My point being,all the current ways of generating electricity will look as absurd as these examples compared to the cost/efficiency of the energy catalyst. The consumer chooses with his wallet right now, after all.
edit on 9-8-2011 by NeoVain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by NeoVain
 


It will take decades to replace existing energy devices with ECats. Meanwhile, the prices of other energy sources will fall as demand wanes.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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Civilization depends on energy. whether it is the muscle power of slaves and beast of burden or nuclear, coal, wind, water or sun.

The cheaper the energy is to produce the better off EVERYBODY is.

So what the heck is your Beef???

Greece is in deep doo doo and "unstable" as a business person I would not be happy about starting a new business there at this time.

After the UK riots I would be think of getting the heck out of the EU for the time being.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by NeoVain

E-cat: Rossi breaks with Greek Defkalion


www.nyteknik.se

Andrea Rossi, inventor of the ‘E-cat’, has terminated his agreement with the Greek pilot customer Defkalion. The planned launch of a one megawatt heat plant in October is now supposed to take place in the United States.

That's an odd article.

It says Rossi terminated the agreement, and that He'll be filing a lawsuit against Defkalion. Defkalion says they aren't breaking the agreement and want to move forward. This is not usual in contract law, usually the party who breaks the agreement is the one who gets sued, so the article doesn't add up.

Maybe what they mean to say is that Defkalion owes Rossi a payment per the agreement which they defaulted on, that would make sense but the article doesn't say that. That's the only thing I can come up with in speculation to try to figure out the article.

I was also impressed the Newenergytimes.com report on the technology came to the same conclusion I did: There's no convincing evidence in the video I saw, that all the water is actually being evaporated. Their report says more or less the same thing. It would be the simplest thing in the world to put a bucket under the steam hose to collect the water. The fact that Rossi doesn't do this convinces me he's at the very least an extremely incompetent scientist, and this glaring omission is possibly more than just incompetence but he intentionally avoids it because it would expose the nature of his hoax:


In late July the debate on whether the E-cat is actually producing energy got new momentum when the online magazine Newenergytimes.com, specializing in LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions), published a report on Rossi’s technology.

The report disputes the measurements made, and also observations made by Ny Teknik during two tests in April 2011.

According to the report the uncertainty regards whether all the water fed into the E-cat at the tests was actually evaporated, or if there was a large amount of water droplets dispersed in the steam. The hypothesis is that much less energy than calculated was required if the water was not completely evaporated.
That's exactly the same observation I made in the thread on ATS that showed the demo of Rossi's technology.

Put a bucket under the steam hose to catch the water. It's science 101, if you are claiming the water is evaporated, it shouldn't collect in the bucket. It's highly suspicious they aren't doing this, and it's the simplest thing in the world to put a bucket under the hose.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


The problem with NewEnergyTimes is Krivit. He is subsidized by Lattice Energy, llc, whose CEO is the Larsen of the Widom-Larsen theory, and promotes anything that they want promoted and trashes anything they want trashed.
I'll wait for a more responsible journalist to comment. LENR-CANR is a much better site.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by pteridine
 

Regardless of any possible bias of newenergytimes, I came to the same conclusion independently after watching Rossi demonstrate his setup.

Anybody with any sense would put a bucket under the end of the steam hose to see how much water is coming out along with the steam, since the whole claim revolves around how much water is converted into steam. It's not rocket science.

It's pretty straightforward to say the water evaporated into steam, is the water in, less the water out. How can you calculate that difference if you aren't measuring the water out? How many other people need to point that out to you before you realize the simple truth of that statement?



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Your whole argument is void and outside the point since it clearly states in the article referred in the OP that the amount of steam have been measured by experts, and weather it is 5% or 10% water droplets in the steam does not matter, since it cannot be explained by chemical reactions anyway, which is the whole point here: it is a new kind of nuclear reaction called LENR. Also with over 200 companies already ready to pay up the 40.5 million euros each for this, apparently they believe in it. If it works or not is no longer the issue here, we are already at the next step which means it works, the question is now who will manufacture it and when. (you can also refer to the nasa scientist quoted in the article, saying we are past the "does it work" part) Please stay on topic.
edit on 9-8-2011 by NeoVain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I am aware of your argument but the amount that is not vaporized is small and we are stuck with the experiment Rossi chose to do at the time.
A better experiment would be heating larger volumes of water and not boiling it. Weigh the water and measure the temperature differential. One cal/gram/degree C and power out is measured. Use electrolysis for the H2 and measure the power used. Don't count circulating pump energy. Simple division will get the power gain. Weigh the unit before and after to make sure no chemical reaction is occurring. Run the unit long enough so that the total energy output exceeds any plausible chemical reaction that could be occurring. Even if the instruments are in error by 10%, you will soon know if this is real or not. See papers by Nagel [GWU] and the NRL folks published at the last big LENR meeting for better ideas. Those proceedings should be available on LENR-CANR. If not, I can get you the links to them.

As to the experiment that was done, given the energy gain, a few percent doesn't matter. If Rossi fails, you will get credit for pointing out why the ECat is no good and we will all be humble while you gloat. If it does work, you should be prepared to confess to conclusion jumping and eat crow.

Remember that everything we know about nuclear reactions we learned by whacking solid materials or particles with other particles at 10's of kev's at a minimum. Regardless of what the big physics guys say, they have no idea, none, of what happens in a solid when the impacting particle is essentially neutral [proton-electron pair] with an energy of 3 electron volts.

You should be patient and watch this develop without worrying about how the experiment could have been done better.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by NeoVain
 


i am not an expert on such matters as IP licencing - but 40 million up fromt per country ????????????

isnt such licencing scaled - based on market size ????????????????????

come on - 40 million for the exclusive USA franchise might be acceptable - if your market research indicated a target market for 20 million units [ domestic and industrial ]

but would you pay 40 million for the iceland franchies -with a population of 305 thousand - you could not possibly sell more that 250 thousand even if every home , bussines , public building etc installed one

any one with experience of such marketing strategies confirm of refute my suspicions ?



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


Just a thought but it might just be a initial down payment to secure licence rights.

I hope the tech is real as it would be great to live through another industrial revolution
and is certainly more positive news than the usual lets beat our neighbour senseless and steal his countries resources.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


a 40 million downpayment ? thats even worse than a 1 off payment



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


If this tech is real, then I would say that 40mil is small potatoes, I was in fact surprised it was so small.

I work streamlining processes within the IT industry.. at points covering 50 of the worlds top IT companies in the EMEA of which each revenue stream was in the mutil-billions for what is basic technology..

If this is as revolutionary as the hype appears then I would assume 40 mil would be a down payment.. the issue will always boil down to how much they can scam us the end user..

If you have a market by the short and curlies and are still delivering a saving I am sure people will still bite your hand off to get one, and with a heavy heart see this will be no different.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


you are missing , or evading the point :

40 million / per country is arbitrary

read my reply again

licencing fees must be poropotional to unit sales

you cannot charge a licening fee of 40 million for a country that cannot posibly support a market of > 250K units, and offer the same livening fee for a country that van support a market of 10 million units




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