Our Troops do NOT Protect Our Freedom and We Should Stop Thanking Them for Doing So

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posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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War is inherently detrimental for the human species.

Here is a good question: How can one "Support the Troops" but simultaneously not support the war? For without troops, there is no war.

This is ATS, I should hope that it is common knowledge that these wars are dictated by "special interest" groups.

McDonalds serves unhealthy food to the public. Do I support the people who purchase their food and their employees? No. By "supporting" the McDonalds consumers and the McDonalds employees, I am condoning the company's business actions, conduct, and sales of their product. However, what does the word "support" mean in each of these contexts? These are the type of questions that need to be answered.

What kind of military do I support?

1) I support an army only if any other country in the world has an army.
2) If 1) is true, then I support a domestic army.
*This list is liable to change.*
edit on 9-8-2011 by Unlimitedpossibilities because: Grammatical Errors
edit on 9-8-2011 by Unlimitedpossibilities because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by semperkill
reply to post by minesweeper
 


Have you ever left this country. You want to talk about the bigger picture when your opinion of the world and your bigeer picture was given to you through the media. I have seen the world buddy and evrytime i leave i cant wait to get back here. Bigger picture. Your post is a joke and by default so are you.


Yet another intelligence check is required for you. Whether I’ve seen the sights and experienced the stories in person is irrelevant. Reality check, not all media sources are corrupt and pictures speck a thousand words. I don’t need to be foolish enough to see combat or 3rd world countries for myself to know they are # situations, that’s like saying I have to burn myself to know it hurts. The bigger picture is being in a war that we can’t afford and will put our great, great, great grandchildren in overwhelming dept. the bigger picture is us meddling in the affairs of other that are not a threat while ignoring the threats in our own backyard. The bigger picture is trying to become a country that is an example setter, not the worlds police or worse yet the largest bully. Again you are an epic fail and the jokes on you, having fun in your bubble



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by Paroxysm
If you have selective memory, let me give a quick refresher....

The PUBLIC did not authorize the use of military force, nor was given an option to vote on it under Bush.


I did see a lot of this same public vote for Obama, because he ran on a campaign of Stopping these 'wars' and bringing all the troops home....but they were all surely let down over the last few years, as Bush faded into Obama and nothing changed.

The Public is not responsible for this madness, the corrupt leaders who lie to us are.


Yes, the public, and you personally as a member of it, is responsible. You seem to be willing to point the finger at someone ELSE, ANY ONE else (be it a soldier, a 'leader' or what have you), and try to escape your own responsibilities, but the public IS responsible, as are YOU, as a member of it.

Laying blame at any doorstep on the street as long as it's not your own is a cop out. It's pure, unadulterated cowardice.

YOU allow it, vote for it, beg for it, acquiesce to it, and then try to blame some one else. Look in the mirror. YOU are guilty of the 'murders' you accuse others of.

Yet you have the gall to tell ME I'll "burn in hell"? See ya there, baby! I'll save you a seat, since I'm sure to make it before you do.



When you ask us to take action, do you suggest we shoot the politicians or the soldiers who are too dumb or brainwashed to truly think for themselves?


If you feel that's your only recourse, then have at it. I don't care who you take your shot at, although I heartily recommend not taking it at myself or a few others here who have seen the elephant. You will be outclassed, and you will lose, but if you feel you must and that's the only thing left to you, have at it. it will be over in a heart beat.

Personally, I don't think it requires that, but I find it awfully interesting how quickly you take to the gun, all while accusing others of "murder".

Whatever you do, at least do SOMETHING,,, even if it's wrong, do SOMETHING. Put your money where your mouth is, have the courage of you convictions, at the very least. DO SOMETHING of your own, rather than just pointing fingers at some one else and crying.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by cavscout11cav
And guess what, I damn will kill whoever tries to kill me or one of them. That is not murder, that is defense



Would be....EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT YOU, YES YOU, ARE THE INVADING ARMY, INVADING THEIR HOMELAND!

Now where I come from that's not 'killing', that is MURDER on behalf of a greedy/corrupt empire.


I did not vote to send you there, heck I wouldn't vote to really send you anywhere...you should be HERE, protecting OUR homeland....not invading someone else's.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:33 PM
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I know and have known many wonderful, upstanding pillars of the country. They are not mindless killers, just people like you and me, but people who are brave enough to get their fingers out for a cause. If that cause is questionable to you, then so be it, vote for the other guy next election.


This, however, is the whole problem; that you are sufficiently naive as to think that the solution is that simple. The fact that there is literally anyone still living in America at this point, who still believes that your system of government is even remotely functional, leaves me breathless. I honestly do not understand for the life of me, how you are able to rationally justify such a belief at all.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by AnotherYOU
 


So basically you are saying we are in everyones buisness. Kind of like what you are doing. Do me a favor. Mind your buisness. This is infighing and really has nothing to do with you or your country. When you stop recieving our welfare then you can have an opinion on american freedom and americas military issues. Its like that dude in the street that comes betwen two lovers fighters. I truly believe that he people on here love of as mch as we love them. This is just a lovers spat. Move along. There is a post on how to grow food on 3 acres. That might help with your issues. Good luck



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by petrus4


You have no f*cking idea what I have seen or done over there, nor what any other man or woman has seen or done. Quit assuming you have any idea whatsoever because it makes you sound like the ignorant, spoiled little child you most likely are. You limp-wristed little punk, to think that a large percentage of people "think" like you is scary. The view must be great from your overly simplified and tainted perspective.


You can keep reacting like this as much as you want. The only thing it proves is that whoever you're responding to, has hit a nerve, and you're feeling threatened, so you feel a need to lash out like this.

As for civilians having an excessively simplistic worldview, you're projecting. We aren't the ones who need to be given open and shut rationalisations about why it's supposedly ok to drag people out of their houses and shoot them in the street.

You don't have any justification for any of what you do. You get dropped into a situation which you yourself aren't responsible for, and the only thing most of you have on your minds, is getting out of said situation alive. I don't hold that against you at all, but what I damn well *will* hold against you, is your insistence that we swallow the same # that you have been force fed, about why you get sent over there.

You are corporate mercenaries. You are not protecting anyone's freedom. You are there to facilitate corporate resource grabs, and kill the people living in said countries when they try and re-assert their own sovereignty. And when the civilian population of America finally wakes up and realises this, then the corporations will order you to start shooting *them*, as well; and most of you will mindlessly obey, like the non-discerning cannon fodder you really are.


I'm done with this thread, I could argue my point until I'm blue in the face. You're damn right it hit a nerve. When you have seen good men die doing something righteous, like protecting Afghan children from murderous lunatics who would love to murder everyone in said village for accepting food and supplies, it tends to rub you the wrong way when people are calling them "civilian murdering mercenaries." You people have no idea what goes on in either combat zone. You want to argue about the legitimacy of our business in the region, be my guest, just don't sit here and call the young men and women who volunteer their services to YOU murderous idiots.

People under the employ of the U.S. military have a much better grasp on why they do what they do than you ever could. If you think for a minute that a "majority" of U.S. military personnel would open fire on U.S. civilians because they are ordered to you are dreaming. Lay off the doom and gloom bullcrap.

By your logic the U.S. public is equally to blame. We are all part of a social contract; to which the U.S. American Public (myself included) have not lived up to our end. EVERY SINGLE LIFE LOST is the responsibility of our government, which is ultimately the responsibility of our people. I understand people's frustration with the system being seemingly hijacked, but to stand here and start calling Soldiers murderers is childish and ignorant to the facts. By that logic, the entirety of the tax-paying U.S. American public are murderers.

Read some books, learn about the contracts that exist between the military, the government and the people.

You guys and gals like to believe that the military is full of robots, when I would be willing to bet that on-average, the military has smarter and more capable thinkers than the public. It's time you get real and stop swallowing the propaganda that exists on the opposite end of the spectrum.
edit on 9-8-2011 by ateuprto because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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Every post since mine has been nothing but hate and utter disillusion..


I only agree to the titles thread. I do not agree to everything else anyone else has posted.

I agree to the title because it's the truth.



In a showing statistic, 70% of all the troops, including the Air Force, Army, Army Reserves, Navy, and Marines.

Those 70% feel they are fighting for oil. Which is why they feel the war's TPTB initiate are unjust, and straight out un needed.

The only reason we are in war with anyone in the middle east is because we provided billions of dollars in terms of recruiting those country's militias.


Did everyone forget the Taliban was put into place by the USA? We paid those groups to fight for us, now they are fighting verses us.

Simple as that.


Now we have to worry about the militant groups we have paid to fight for us in areas like Syria, Tripoli... Pretty much the whole entire middle east, from Africa down.

This is commen sense people.... You don't need a political background to see this!!!!!!!!
edit on 9-8-2011 by SelfSustainedLoner because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
Yes, the public, and you personally as a member of it, is responsible.





BS, I did not send you to invade, pillage, and plunder on behalf of some rich oligarch.
Stop regurgitating the brainwashing slogans repeated to you during basic.




Originally posted by nenothtu
Whatever you do, at least do SOMETHING,,, even if it's wrong, do SOMETHING. Put your money where your mouth is, have the courage of you convictions, at the very least. DO SOMETHING of your own, rather than just pointing fingers at some one else and crying.


Tell me, what is it that I could possibly do to get the corrupt politicians as well as the brainwashed troops to stop 'killing'
in my name?
edit on 9-8-2011 by Paroxysm because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by minesweeper
 


Epic fail epic fail. Your post are annoying me. You dont get what im saying so i will ignore you. We have a difference of opinion you think you are rightand I know i am right so lets leave it at that. Our back and forth is not really contributing to this discussion. Plus my brother (who i would die for) we are going a little off topic. Good night.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:37 PM
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I do not understand how "you've never served a day/go enlist in the military then talk" is some counterpoint to the fact that US soldiers will blindly murder anyone who stands against the agenda of TPTB regardless of their 'direct orders', a moral compass points either right or wrong and it doesn't take a genius to discern the two...



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by Paroxysm
 


Where exactly do you come . I hope somewhere in america.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by semperkill
reply to post by minesweeper
 


Once again get in your car drive around the country. That is all i am saying. I want you to enjoy america then i want you to come back here and tell me that this isnt the greatest country in the world. Stop puttting words in my mouth and stop disrespecting me. Please be civil you can get your opinion acros just fine with out being disrespectfull.


Gee sorry I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings with logic. As for putting words in one’s mouth that’s the pot calling the kettle black, I never said I didn’t like my country or that I don’t enjoy and travel it’s wonders. I just stated that I want it ran properly by the constitution and that includes the military as the thread point is, take your own advice and stay on topic.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by AnotherYOU
reply to post by semperkill
 


yes it is.

we may be poor, but at least the rest of the world does not hate us.

and rightfully so judging by statements like yours

maybe you should look at portugal for a glimpse of your future.

we "ruled" the world once too

look how good that served us






and a hellofa job you guys did too!

i go to macau alot to gamble. must of sucked giving it back to china.

love your tarts, tho, try them frozen!

messed up most of asia, you guys. now you are nothing.

another post card country.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Paroxysm

Originally posted by cavscout11cav
And guess what, I damn will kill whoever tries to kill me or one of them. That is not murder, that is defense



Would be....EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT YOU, YES YOU, ARE THE INVADING ARMY, INVADING THEIR HOMELAND!

Now where I come from that's not 'killing', that is MURDER on behalf of a greedy/corrupt empire.



I see you havent been to one of those countries. Do you even know who we are fighting there. Do you picture some poor Iraqi huddled in a hut, fighting against us. No, it is Iranians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians Pakistanis, and Afghans that make up most of the fighting force on the insurgent side.

In my book, that would make them an invading army too



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by cavscout11cav

Originally posted by Paroxysm

Originally posted by cavscout11cav
And guess what, I damn will kill whoever tries to kill me or one of them. That is not murder, that is defense



Would be....EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT YOU, YES YOU, ARE THE INVADING ARMY, INVADING THEIR HOMELAND!

Now where I come from that's not 'killing', that is MURDER on behalf of a greedy/corrupt empire.


I see you havent been to one of those countries. Do you even know who we are fighting there. Do you picture some poor Iraqi huddled in a hut, fighting against us. No, it is Iranians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians Pakistanis, and Afghans that make up most of the fighting force on the insurgent side.

In my book, that would make them an invading army too



Shhhh, you are ruining the illusion that people were living under rainbows before the big-bad U.S. military rolled in and started throwing grenades into school houses. People see what they want to, never once trying to understand the FULL complexity of any given conflict.
edit on 9-8-2011 by ateuprto because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by petrus4

I know and have known many wonderful, upstanding pillars of the country. They are not mindless killers, just people like you and me, but people who are brave enough to get their fingers out for a cause. If that cause is questionable to you, then so be it, vote for the other guy next election.


This, however, is the whole problem; that you are sufficiently naive as to think that the solution is that simple. The fact that there is literally anyone still living in America at this point, who still believes that your system of government is even remotely functional, leaves me breathless. I honestly do not understand for the life of me, how you are able to rationally justify such a belief at all.


I'm naive for not agreeing with you? For actually experiencing a part of this military lifestyle you hate so much? That's not naivety, that's just my point of view. The solution is never going to be that simple, but if people stopped voting for major parties and started looking at the smaller politicians that aren't tied to corporate entities, it would really help, then it's quite possible that our troops could come home to their families and concentrate on home defence.

I do hope by my "system of government" you mean the UK, because I'm not in America. I actually think we do alright over here. We're not perfect, but we certainly don't have it as bad as some countries in Europe. You don't have to understand how I justify my beliefs, just accept them for what they are and move on.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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This thread has been closed for staff review -- and, to allow cooler heads to prevail.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by semperkill
reply to post by Paroxysm
 


Where exactly do you come . I hope somewhere in america.



Of course.


Even more importantly I am from planet Earth, where since the don of civilization there has always been groups of people willing to go into others space/territory and do whatever needbe to steal what does not belong to them.

It has and always will be morally wrong.



Originally posted by cavscout11cav
I see you havent been to one of those countries. Do you even know who we are fighting there.


Doesn't matter.

Did you hold a democratic vote of the population of THAT nations people's which you 'invaded' (let alone a vote to see if this nations peoples wanted to risk our troops for this sharade) to see if they even wanted you, your big gun, and big ego to come help them out?

No, of course not.
edit on 9-8-2011 by Paroxysm because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:00 PM
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Reply to post by semperkill
 


yeah, point the finger and blame the other guy to divert attention.

but dont speak of hangings when your country ranks first on death penalty usage.

like nero im gonna wash my hands off this thread


 
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