Difference in the education of a rich and poor neighborhood, page 2

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reply posted on 9-8-2011 @ 02:04 PM by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by Htrowklis82
The school district I moved into had a really high overall rating so I thought I was good to go, no matter where we lived!
Wrong! I only could afford a place on the poorer side of town, only a couple blocks really. There is not really a Ghetto here. However the elementary school in this zone has some of the worst ratings a school can get! Schools a few blocks over are rating high.
Whats the difference? Well living in the "ghetto" of this town showed me a couple things. Kids ran wild, destructive disrespectful, and no parents to be seen! kids outside until 11 pm on school nights....A serious lack of parental involvement or care that seems to just trickle down.
You have a choice to send your kids to a higher rated school but you are responsible for their travel (no bus service) which I did.
Now that I have moved several miles away, (remember the "ghetto" area here is only a few blocks worth) there is a completely different scene...involved parents, out with their kids. Happier, cleaner, less obnoxious kids whose parents obviously care about them and their well being.
I think the poor who are comfortable where they are and don't feel a need to change have a lack of care about life in general and a certain laziness. they just carry that stagnation down to the next generation.

my mom work her guts out until she was disabled.
Then I had a choice. Drop out of high school or all 3 of us become homeless and lose everything we had.
Oh and saving is almost impossible/impractical on 5.15/hr(part time).
We had alot of good moments.

reply posted on 9-8-2011 @ 04:21 PM by Htrowklis82

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman

I should have been more clear in what I was saying. There are definitely the poor who are working their Arse off just to get by...my parents included.
However, where I live, there is a whole lot of getting by on the governments dime. Many of my neighbors never left their homes, but to go outside and smoke, and fight with their neighbors.
I understand completely...my parents could never make enough to get on top of or out from under that lower class umbrella.
However it just goes a step further in making the point of how important education is....
Does it suck... yes, but right now going to college and having a degree seems to be the only thing that brings in better than minimum wage (which is an almost unlivable amount)
It isn't impossible to get a degree, and as a single mom making about or less than min. wage every month I can go to college for free! Grants cover tuition and student loans/scholarships pad my cost of living and child care expenses.
Is it great going in debt...no, but I know if I get my RN I will make way more over time than if I worked as a CNA for the rest of my life. That pay difference is worth it to me....
I just don't want to struggle all of my life.
I would tell this to my neighbors when they complained of not getting out of the dump they lived in, or how poor they were. That they could go to school for practically for free and do anything they wanted to do! Anything is better than nothing!
But living on welfare and food stamps and a million other government offered programs and doing nothing seemed more appealing!

edit on 9-8-2011 by Htrowklis82 because: spelling

reply posted on 9-8-2011 @ 04:54 PM by kosmicjack

I think this is a very important topic. I think it's really the new "separate but equal".

There clearly must be a world of difference between schools in wealthy neighborhoods vs. impoverished neighborhoods because so many parents are lying about their addresses just to get their kids into other, "better" schools.

I don't know if it's resources, teachers or parents but my observations and instincts tell me it's all of the above. I know teachers who clamor to teach in "better" neighborhoods and I know parents who choose a neighborhood based on the school performance. Obviously those teachers have first hand experience that makes them want to get reassigned and those parents are obviously involved or concerned with their child's education, at least to a superficial extent.

As for my family, I know my neighbors well enough and I know their kids well enough to firmly believe I didn't want my kid in the same class with them. Not that I don't care for them or their kids, but I see their lives play out in the day to day comings and goings and gossip of our middle class neighborhood enough to know that their values are not my values, their priorities are not my priorities. If they don't have enough self-respect to care for their kids or their property and keep their drama at home -I know they can't possibly keep it out of the classroom, no matter how much a teacher may try.

Additionally, I come from a family with several generations of teachers, most of whom opted out of public school teaching just as soon as they were able and, admittedly, one or two others who do teach in public schools who shouldn't be allowed to teach at all.

I opted for private school. That said, I gladly vote for all tax initiatives that go for public schools, God knows every kid, no matter the neighborhood, deserves a good eduction - it's our only hope for the future - but most certainly Education, in the U.S. at least, is totally broken.

reply posted on 9-8-2011 @ 04:55 PM by mjfromga

reply to post by amazed

Some schools have very active PTOs. Whenever a school hosts an event, it wants to put its best foot forward, so it's my guess the tablecloths and flowers and such were paid for out of the PTO funds. A wealthy school with a wealthy PTO might only get the same money per pupil as the poor schools, but can bank thousands upon thousands from their PTO treasury to upgrade things like computers or playground equipment. The poor schools rarely have active PTOs and the schools parent population is having difficulty supplying food for the table let alone giving generously to the school fundraisers.

Parents should always check out the neighborhood schools before moving. However, in many states, districts are county-run. How the schools are run tend to be more similar - same meals, same teachers, etc. It doesn't matter if you are at a wealthy neighborhood or a poor one. There might be differences in the cafeteria staff, however.

As far as buildings go, the new schools tend to be on the outskirts/suburbs where homes are newer and larger, and the population wealthier. The older and nastier schools are in older and poorer in-town or urban areas. Because teachers work for the county, they are often moved from one school to another, so there also isn't a lot of difference in teacher quality. There is a huge difference in student quality, however. Rich parents usually have high educational attainment and require their kids to excel as well - and they make sure their kids can compete for tier-one colleges. Poor parents often have no more than a high school diploma and many are drop outs. They don't know how to work the system nor do they spend a lot of time on home enrichment activities. Heck, most don't bother to make their kids do their homework, which slows down the learning pace of the entire class. We won't even go into the fact that many of these kids have no real idea how to behave in school or public in general.

reply posted on 9-8-2011 @ 05:22 PM by Htrowklis82

Originally posted by mjfromga
reply to post by amazed

Some schools have very active PTOs. Whenever a school hosts an event, it wants to put its best foot forward, so it's my guess the tablecloths and flowers and such were paid for out of the PTO funds. A wealthy school with a wealthy PTO might only get the same money per pupil as the poor schools, but can bank thousands upon thousands from their PTO treasury to upgrade things like computers or playground equipment. The poor schools rarely have active PTOs and the schools parent population is having difficulty supplying food for the table let alone giving generously to the school fundraisers.

Very true! one very upper class neighborhood in my boyfriends community...has a sign with a thermometer display for the PTO donation goal...its 100,000! however this is a very wealthy area and an easily attainable goal I am sure for this large high school. I remember my PTO had a 5,000 dollar goal and we usually never met that lol!

Originally posted by mjfromga
reply to post by amazed

Because teachers work for the county, they are often moved from one school to another, so there also isn't a lot of difference in teacher quality. There is a huge difference in student quality, however. Rich parents usually have high educational attainment and require their kids to excel as well - and they make sure their kids can compete for tier-one colleges. Poor parents often have no more than a high school diploma and many are drop outs. They don't know how to work the system nor do they spend a lot of time on home enrichment activities. Heck, most don't bother to make their kids do their homework, which slows down the learning pace of the entire class. We won't even go into the fact that many of these kids have no real idea how to behave in school or public in general.

This is definitely something I see! The education student questioned That I would not know..but I do! This was my life...parents were high school drop outs, never made me do my homework, Never went to parent teacher conferences. They did not care if I brought home A's or F's so I stopped trying.
No one cared if I excelled. I had good teachers and I had bad teachers but a teacher is a temporary figure head..always a new year and a new teacher.
I had some that went over and beyond and some that probably cared less....however it never really changed my course in life. I honestly just thought I wasn't smart. Now here I am in college pulling a 4.0 in classes so hard, most are just happy to pass.
Doing well in school is all about EFFORT! short of having a learning disability, every child has the ability to do well in school. It is a nurturing and and structural framework that needs to be in place for a kid. It is not a teachers job to parent, kids are at home or with their parents for 70% of the time.....Parents need to step up a little or a lot imo! Not just with homework or at home structure but also with the every kid is special act. One mom I know calls every time her kid gets a bad grade or when that kid doesn't do his homework she will write out an excuse note. Even going as far as to do the majority of work on his projects...
Boy is he gonna fail at life when his mommy is not there to wipe his butt for him anymore!
Kids need to learn how to do work and work at difficult things, how can they be successful in school or life otherwise!?
I just have so much passion for this, because I don't want my kids or any others to end up like I did. Here I am doing so well and it turns out, hey..I am pretty smart! However failing in high school led me to fail and make crappy life choices and now I am an adult in college having to do it the hard way! So much wasted potential....that could have been prevented if my parents actually stepped up and made me do my work!!!
I have seen kids in wealthy areas whose kids fail out too...you cant expect teachers and schools to do it all. Make your kids work is the point I am trying to make I guess. I need to stop reading this thread....lol

edit on 9-8-2011 by Htrowklis82 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-8-2011 @ 05:23 PM by michael1983l

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Whats the differences in the education of a rich and poor neighborhood?

When I stayed on the beach the education was really good (you actually had to work hard teachers cared if you failed or not)the education when I moved back inland was average at best. A lot of teachers didn't care if anyone passed. It was just depressing.

What in your experience is the advantages in going to a private(pay2learn) school or rich school vs a poor underfunded school?

The only difference is the self belief to educate themselves.

reply posted on 10-8-2011 @ 06:36 PM by 27th Aquarius

Go to school to get a diploma, go to the library to get an education.

reply posted on 10-8-2011 @ 06:43 PM by unityemissions

It's a huge difference. I went to blue-ribbon schools my whole life, and then junior year went to a charter school in a low-income area. The packets they tried to play off as work was a joke. I could have breezed through it and got my diploma in a semester, except I couldn't stand the environment.

If I have children, they will be home schooled or go to a magnet school. Public schools are a joke, but even more so the one's with less funding, and rougher neighborhoods.

edit on 10-8-2011 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 10-8-2011 @ 07:26 PM by jonnywhite

Everyone has an opinion. But everything around us gets mixed like things in the ocean.

My parents never got a college degree. But geez... they screamed me out of the house when I didn't do well in school. I dreaded bad grades AND procrastinated. They were on me all the time about it. I got held back several years when I was a little kid because of learning problems. I finished HS with a 3.8. Got an associates: 3.8. But I've still failed in life. They did what they could, and so many people tried to get me moving, to make me care, but I still am irresponsible.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. That's the story of my life.

I just have ot shake my head a bit at all of the people here. Everyone thinks they got it figured out. But you know what, if our goal is to make perfect people then we're always going to fail.

That's the feeling I get. A hint of nihilism? A little. I knew lots of kids while growing up. Many of them were jerks or used every chance they could get to cheat something. You know what? They still succeeded in life. Many have kids even. It's hard to judge someone. Appearances are deceiving. Sometimes the only way to see any truth is in the numbers because looking at hte people themselves is only going to confuse you. People are a marvel of irony and surprise.

The self-important teacher, you know the one. Well, soon as we come out of class we're making jokes about her. One moment we were at our books, in compliance, the next we were rowdy and obnoxious. 20 years later we're working and having families. That's the way the wind blows.

I smell eugenics... or something like it. A strong desire to control. Fear. Insecurity even.

Have you ever seen someone overdo it? Over-compensate? Overcontrol? What happens when you put somebody like this with a kid? How is that kid going to learn with someone like that? Have you ever been doing something physical, and then, for a moment, thought about it and lost your sense of balance? How does thinking about it make you lose concentration? I'm not sure. But this is kind of what happens when somebody overdoes it. This is what happens when you examine someone too much. This is what will happen if our school system gets paranoid.

edit on 10-8-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-8-2011 @ 09:25 AM by Sphota

reply to post by amazed

With all due respect, it wasn't your taxes paying for the rich school, it was the local property taxes. If you lived there, it would have been your property taxes going towards that school and your children would be attending it.

That is the biggest problem, though, and you hit the nail on the head. The inequity of schooling - although provided by the government - is that wealthier people pay higher property taxes which in turn means more funding for public schools.

Public school provisions should not be tied to local property taxes because it is the most sure-fire way of perpetuating the local neighborhood value: local kids live in poverty, they have few opportunities, the schools are underfunded, there are no better opportunities in the school itself, they graduate (maybe) with less opportunity, stick around in the neighborhood contributing to delinquency (or simply rotting in their environment), only to repeat it all when they finally have kids. Cycle continues.

When I lived in Arizona, I went for two years to a high school in a lower-middle/lower-class neighborhood. There were gang fights at school, broken down depressed buildings, few special programs, private local pizza companies and taco bell in the cafeteria.

Then, we moved to Northeast Scottsdale (the richest, newest part of town) and I went to the newest high school in the area with a modern building, nestled in the foothills, with beautiful landscaping, block format classes, special prep classes and clubs. The worst part was the cafeteria with the same privatized bs food suppliers.

The easiest way to tell the difference was to look at student parking. At the first HS, the student parking was full of beat up hand-me-downs and you could not tell the students' cars from the teachers'. At the second HS in the wealthy area, the students had BMWs, Mercedes, Hummers, etc. and you could tell the difference between the students' and the teachers' - teachers don't get paid better at a good school - or at least they didn't back then, not sure now with NCLB.

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