Difference in the education of a rich and poor neighborhood

Whats the differences in the education of a rich and poor neighborhood?

When I stayed on the beach the education was really good (you actually had to work hard teachers cared if you failed or not)the education when I moved back inland was average at best. A lot of teachers didn't care if anyone passed. It was just depressing.

What in your experience is the advantages in going to a private(pay2learn) school or rich school vs a poor underfunded school?

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


Hogwash , school is what you make of it, I went to a secondry school in Northern Ireland , where many of my class mates where fathers by the time they where 15 also alot of them left school with little or no qualifications.

If like me you kept your head down while in class but had fun when you wernt learning you could walk away with plenty of qualifications and even end up in Uni like my self.

Althrough if you want to go down the route of self fulfilling prophecy and you have little or no self esteem built up by teachers they are basically setting you up to fail.

One of the differences is the type of food. In our neighborhood the food is awful, so my son takes his lunch.

Last year my daughter went to the "rich" neighborhood school for a meeting about Universities. She said the cafeteria there was like nothing she had ever seen in school. Pretty little round tables with table cloths and flower arrangements on the tables and an amazing choice of food that she said was quality like at a very great restaurant.

This was not a private school, but a public school. What irritates me is that this cafeteria is also paid for by my own taxes. As far as I am concerned, if it is a public school, they should all have the same damn type of cafeterias with the same type of food available to the students.

Nothing like healthy food to help a child learn, seems only the rich neighborhood get's the quality foods to eat while the rest get the crap food.

I won't even go into the differences between the quality of the teachers or the quality of the buildings themselves, or the technology available. The food differences should give a little hint about that.

Harm None
Peace

The school district I moved into had a really high overall rating so I thought I was good to go, no matter where we lived!
Wrong! I only could afford a place on the poorer side of town, only a couple blocks really. There is not really a Ghetto here. However the elementary school in this zone has some of the worst ratings a school can get! Schools a few blocks over are rating high.
Whats the difference? Well living in the "ghetto" of this town showed me a couple things. Kids ran wild, destructive disrespectful, and no parents to be seen! kids outside until 11 pm on school nights....A serious lack of parental involvement or care that seems to just trickle down.
You have a choice to send your kids to a higher rated school but you are responsible for their travel (no bus service) which I did.
Now that I have moved several miles away, (remember the "ghetto" area here is only a few blocks worth) there is a completely different scene...involved parents, out with their kids. Happier, cleaner, less obnoxious kids whose parents obviously care about them and their well being.
I think the poor who are comfortable where they are and don't feel a need to change have a lack of care about life in general and a certain laziness. they just carry that stagnation down to the next generation.

oh and if parents are paying out the butt for private school, they are probably going to make sure they make it worth their money! Staying on the kid to do homework and excel....and if the parents don't care enough, they probably can afford a nanny to do the caring for them!

Please read:

Ruby Payne; "A Framework for Understanding Poverty"
en.wikipedia.org...

Very enlightening on the subject.

-Chung

When I lived in Fresno, CA in the early 2000's at a local high school, Fresno High, the students walked out in protest. They had been using textbooks that were from the 70's, the AC and heaters didn't work, there were holes in classroom windows; it was pretty bad.

What made it horrible was the Superintendent of the school district spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on a desk. Yes, a desk. That's what it's like to go to a poor school. Because of district lines I had to go to a rich kid school, Bullard High. At my school, they had heated water polo pools. New textbooks. Subway brought sandwiches everyday. Definitely easier for us to get a valid education than the other kids at Fresno High.

A child needs a framework of support and structure! It does not matter what a kid is learning in school. If they come home to parents that don't instill homework time, and the importance of education for one's future and for gods sake a bedtime before 11 on school nights, a kid will never succeed!
I think for the most part the upper middle class had to go college to get to that point and they put their children on the same path
Poor uneducated parents don't as much care or push their kids to college because they themselves did not put it in high importance.
Thats why its so generational.
My parents did not finish high school...college, never ever crossed my mind. it was not even on my radar.
Boyfriends parents, college educated and upper middle class...he never even questioned it, he was going to college and his parents saw that he did.
Only in my adulthood did I see the light and am now in college and doing great, finally reaching my whole potential!
and my kids..I am already talking college with them! They know how important education is in reaching the goals in life they have!

It does matter what a kid's learning in school. The title of the thread is:

Difference in the EDUCATION of a rich and poor neighborhood


Sure, some education comes from parental figures, but we're also educated through our schooling system, like every other civilized nation. So to say school doesn't matter is absurd. I'm going to school to be a teacher now, and I can tell you the number of kids I've encountered that actually look forward to school shocked me. Their parents work 16 hour days so the only true interaction and brain stimulation they get is when they're at school. And these parents are working so many hours because the cost of living is disproportionate to the wages paid. I lucked out with amazing parents, but I'm also friends with highly educated people who had horrible parents but succeeded because they put their all in school. I also like how you referred to it as "ghetto" too. Nice.

The biggest difference would be the expectations of the kids.

We moved to an area that was known to have great schools. Many other families also moved here for the schools.

As a result of parental involvement, these students did very well. Kids would refer to other kids as "slackers" if they didn't get their school work done. Of course some didn't do as well.

My kids played on sports teams with kids from areas where schools were not considered so good. Those kids had lower expectations from their parents and their peer groups. When the expectations are lower, the achievements of the kids will be proportionately lower. Of course some of those kids did well but not in the same numbers as the kids from a "good" school district.

What's the difference? Expectations both from parents and the students peer groups. A high value is placed on education in the "good" school.

I am poor...ghetto poor. I go out of my way to make sure my kids get the education they get. In fact I am about to drive 10 miles to pick up my daughter from the extra math classes I enrolled her in for the summer.
I have seen both sides of the coin. I am saying that a teacher can do her best to teach kids, but when they come to school tired because parents did not make them go to bed, or with no homework done because no one cared enough to make them do it, or the kids are disrespectful or unruly because they know no discipline....there is not much she can do, multiplied by 20.
I am not saying all kids are like that, because definitely some kids are born with the gumption and independence to rise above and beyond their parental circumstances.
I am just giving my observations as a parent, and someone who has traipsed on both sides of the tracks so to speak.
My boyfriend is an educator, and can attest to the vary same phenomenon. Teachers only have so much time in a day.
newbodyoldsoul Its sweet that you still have that Im gonna be a teacher and change the world attitude...super sweet

Super sweet? Take your condescending comments elsewhere. I WILL change the lives of the children I'm blessed to have as students. I don't give a # about what you've seen. You haven't seen it all have you? Maybe if more people took the time to TALK to these children instead of throwing hands up and saying "oh what the hell its not my job". When you sign up to be a teacher, you sign up to be a parent. I don't care what you think. I know these kids will be coming to me monday thru friday looking for something they didn't have the day before. It's actually sad that you find humor in my mentality of change. It can happen, it has happened, and will continue to happen past our living. And FYI I have a three year old son, worked with children for 5 years before he was born, and can attest to the impact great teachers have on horrible students. I can't change them all, but that's not the mission.

reply to post by newBodyoldSoul

I hope you can do it forever....with your hands tied by the system, poor pay and with out being burnt out.
As someone who has the pleasure of knowing many educators, not many can....and its not because they didn't want to or they didn't care.

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


My kids went to an expensive private school for a number of years and last year switched to a public school. A public school where they had no money, lousy facilities and the teachers were paying for a lot of things out of their own pockets.

The public school education was far superior, in my opinion than that received in the private school. The work was harder, more discipline was in the class room. The teachers were fantastic. They got to know the kids, actually called you at home if your kid was out sick to see how they were doing. I have a number of friends who pulled their kids out of private school, the same school my kids went to with a supposedly academic focus and their kids were behind in terms of the public school standards and needed remedial work. A friend of mine has a kid who actually has a 150 IQ and was behind when he switched. Obviously he caught up in about a week, but he was never taught what he should have been taught.

In private schools you are paying for facilities. They are an absolute rip-off.

The challenge with a private school is that they are not real. "little Johnny is such a unique child. He's special so lets tailor instruction for Johnny. He has trouble with his homework so we'll have the teacher's assistant help him". Johnny might well be a dope or a totally manipulative brat who would be dealt with accordingly in the public school.

The lack of socio-economic differences in private schools is also a negative. Having your kid mix with every kind of person is far superior than the cookie cutter kids they get in most private schools and that includes having them mix with kids with special needs.

I have since moved and the kids are again attending a public school and so far it has been a tremendous experience.

It all boils down to the teachers. When I look at a school now I look at what the teacher turnover is and if its low, I would bet that your kid will get a good education.

One of the big differences though is that, in contrast with my years in an inner city public school, kids who were not there for the education were simply kicked out of school. They were removed from the learning environment rather than the learning environment being adapted to accomodate their anti social behavior. Kids should absolutely be kicked out of school if they are not there to learn. They should be held back if they can't pass.

School should (and used to at least) teach you a lot more than subject matter.

The difference is not with the school. It is with the neighborhoods surrounding the school. Studies show that the number of professionals on a city block will determine the dropout rate of the school. When the number of professionals drops below 10%, the dropout rate skyrockets. This has to do with the influence of adults on the surrounding children.

The 2nd factor is with the needs that are met or not met by the family. Simply put, children will not focus on seeking education if their focus has not traveled beyond their basic needs of food, clothing, shelter and love. When these needs are not met, the child will not seek to expand awareness beyond self. The focus will always be on meeting basic needs. Children who have their basic needs met by the family will naturally move beyond seeking these basic needs and toward meeting needs of self-esteem. None of us seeks education apart from wanting to improve our own self-concept. LINK to the 2nd chapter of my book on education if you want a detailed explanation.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Whats the differences in the education of a rich and poor neighborhood?

When I stayed on the beach the education was really good (you actually had to work hard teachers cared if you failed or not)the education when I moved back inland was average at best. A lot of teachers didn't care if anyone passed. It was just depressing.

What in your experience is the advantages in going to a private(pay2learn) school or rich school vs a poor underfunded school?

reply to post by newBodyoldSoul


Studies show that parental involvement is a key factor in a child and a teacher' success. You cant deny the facts...So in support of your hopes and dreams, I hope that as an educator you have the plan to develop some innovative techniques to improve the parental involvement in your students lives. Otherwise you will fight a frustrating and often losing battle.

www.michigan.gov...

www.successinhighneedschools.org...

www.mcrel.org...

horizon.unc.edu...

Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
You haven't seen it all have you?

As a now single mom and full time student I can say I have seen both sides and experienced it first hand.
I used to be a stay at home mom, active everyday in my daughter's education. Then I left an abusive husband and struck out on my own with 2 girls.
I went out of my way to school of choice my daughter into one of the better rated schools in this district. I then enrolled full time in school myself. Balancing a house, tight budget, demanding nursing classes...I didn't have the same amount of time to be involved and active in my kids education. I thought to myself, you know she is going to a great school..has an awesome teacher (love the woman)! Midway through their standardized scores came in the mail, I was horrified! Her scores had dropped, she was below her educational growth chart if you will!
I was so personally upset at myself, I had dropped the ball....I was not upset at her teacher, or her..it was my attitude of, she is in a good school, she should be alright.
I spent the next semester, not only maintaining my own 4.0, house, tight budget alone but also putting more focus on my kids education! Its exhausting....but worth it.
At the end of the year her scores went up 25 to 50 % in every area that needed work!
Parental involvement is extremely important, and yes I can say I have seen it! If I would have blown off those scores and let her awesome teacher take care of it (and that is not sarcasm, bc she is awesome and holds a masters degree in education) then my kid would have continued her slide.
Unfortunately her awesome teacher, had to put her focus on state standardized testing and has her hands tied on the teaching she can do... and what she has time for.
Kids need their parents involvement. I learned this, and wont forget it!

reply to post by Htrowklis82


It certainly is a key factor, but absolutely not the only one. Private schools, especially expensive ones have tremendous parental involvement as well as a lot of parental financial support beyond tuition.

Its the parental involvement that supports the kid's learning, but also the parental involvement (and cash) that facilitates a lack of discipline and this "every child is special" nonsense. The everyone is equal model of the public school is far better and a much more realistic representation of reality.

As far as parental involvement in the school in terms of helping out, there is no difference. There are always a dozen folks who do everything. Help out in the class rooms, coach the kids, do the projects/fund raisers for the school, etc.

Schools today are doing what ever they can to reduce the benefits of parental support, going so far as to suggest that kids with parents who take time to ensure that their kids do homework and take school seriously have an unfair advantage. My nephew in a relatively well off community in NJ is not allowed to bring his school books home. Why? Because they have deemed it unfair to the kids who's parents don't give a rip about their kids doing homework. She appealed to the principal and the school board and lost. She went out and spent over $300 to buy the books.

Absurd. Sorry, but everyone is not from equal circumstances, economically, intellectually, physically nor in an equally functional family. the schools need to get over it

I've been to all kinds of schools (low income, nicer, and in the middle) in all kinds of neighborhoods, and the teacher was always the biggest difference. If the teacher is good enough, then they'll know how to work around a lack of resources and trouble kids, while still making the class fun and teaching the kids what they need to learn. Things like books and the environment are critical, but a teacher with the right skills and desires can overcome that. Sadly, though, most teachers are just expected to be glorified babysitters now, so things like the income level of the neighborhood do matter more than they should.

Parental involvement is more important than what school system you go to. There are still kids that fail in the "rich" school system.