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Are the London Riots a False Flag?

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posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Unless you are suggesting that policing practices, the rules and regulations governing them, public perceptions towards the police, the media and people’s access to information have not changed in the previous quarter of a century then in this context 24 years ago is not really in recent years.

reply to post by crimvelvet
 



The police are certainly acting "WEIRD" which lends itself to the false flag label.


Only if you’re looking for a false flag; there are any number of reasons for the police holding back. Perhaps they were undermanned, perhaps they were afraid of being accused of being heavy handed, perhaps they felt that waiting would result in more likely convictions, perhaps they’re incompetent etc.

An orchestrated plan to have a series of riots across the country, involving possibly thousands of people for so far vague reasons is probably one of the least likely reasons I can think of for the police holding back.




posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


People think they are so clever and so piss wise nowadays but I assure you nothing much has changed really in the last 30 odd years, people are still only people.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


So are you suggesting that policing practices, the rules and regulations governing them, public perceptions towards the police, the media and people’s access to information etc have not changed in the last 24+ years?

If not then there has been a hell of a lot of changes since the cases you mentioned whatever assurances you give me.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


Are you saying it's impossible for police to use or to be agent provocateurs, for the police to use nefarious tactics, to bully and assault people or to take bribes and be corrupt?
For all the rules and regulations may have changed very little in practical reality has.
Unfortnately our police are still more than capable of committing the same injustices that they were 20, 30 whatever many years ago.

And despite the internet, or maybe because of it, people are still as likely to fall for the same old spiel that was forced on us all those years ago.
People today are no wiser, or stupider, (or is it more stupid?), than they were yesteryear.

And as a general rule of thumb I would say that people mistrust the police as much today as they ever did.

The police set themselves up as law and policy makers as well as law enforcement officers and are nearly as responsible for the horrible mess this country is in as the self-obsessed and amoral politicians are.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 



Are you saying it's impossible for police to use or to be agent provocateurs


No I was just asking how many proven cases have there been in recent times. I just don’t consider 24 years ago to be recent in this context because of the massive changes since then.


For all the rules and regulations may have changed very little in practical reality has.
Unfortnately our police are still more than capable of committing the same injustices that they were 20, 30 whatever many years ago.


Not when every other person in a crowd has a video camera, when the media are flying helicopters over their heads, when the police are now required to keep a detailed record of their actions, when modern technology allows people to share evidence of police misconduct instantly and without censorship and when, in my opinion, trust in the police is eroding.

It’s not impossible but today we live in an age where even a policeman pushing someone over does not go unnoticed.

I’m not saying that the police don’t or can’t use agent provocateurs but the person I asked the question of said that there were numerous instances; I just want to know of any recent ones.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 




Gotcha.

It maybe harder and less frequent but I think it still happens.

And I'm afraid as you get older you begin to realise that 24+ years is nothing really; the riots in '81, The Miners Strike and Wapping, The Battle Of The Beanfield etc are as clear in my mind today as if they occurred 2 or 3 years ago.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


You have no idea how old I am.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


So what?

That has no bearing on my experiences and me remembering events of the past as if they more or less occurred yesterday.
If you are about my age and think that life and society etc has changed dramatically since then well you've obviously had a completely different life to the one I have and that of the vast majority of people I know of a comparative age.

I'm 46 and remember those events vividly and they had a lasting impression and effect on me.

How old are you?



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Apologies, I misread the line "And I'm afraid as you get older you begin" as "And I'm afraid as you get older you'll begin"; changed the tone entirely.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 




With due respect to you, wcitizen, a lot of people I've spoken to today about the riots would like to see the Army out on this issue, me included, ( Ordinary citizens...) preferably with rubber bullets / baton rounds, and give the rioters a good hammering, preferably with no legal redress...

Not going to happen though. ( Damn European Court of Human Rights.) It would be political suicide. At the moment, anyway.

UNLESS, of course, the riots go on an on ( Unlikely ?) and / or the police run out of steam / can't cope..



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by CharterZZ
reply to post by wcitizen
 

I reckon these riots are being organised through facebook, a place where people can spread word like wildfire. These rioters are mostly the bored unemployed people, any sniff of a riot and its like christmas for them.

I dont see any false flag here at all.

it's great that you expressed an opinion, but could you freshen up on the 'news' part before presenting an opinion that has already been debunked, refuted and or proven false?
Blackberry mssging seems to be the choice communication in this case ... not FB or Twitter or Androids or other social media.
If you don't clearly see a false flag, you are not looking close enough.
*** how many teens carry blackberrys?


These rioters are mostly the bored unemployed people
thanks, now i'm sure you're disinfo agent ~~ unless you were there and know the rioters personally?



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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False flag this and false flag that.. that word is sooooooo over used on ATS im sick of it.. perhaps its a real flag this time. AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN... omgg

I would false flag this thread if I could



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by wcitizen
 




With due respect to you, wcitizen, a lot of people I've spoken to today about the riots would like to see the Army out on this issue, me included, ( Ordinary citizens...) preferably with rubber bullets / baton rounds, and give the rioters a good hammering, preferably with no legal redress...

Not going to happen though. ( Damn European Court of Human Rights.) It would be political suicide. At the moment, anyway.

UNLESS, of course, the riots go on an on ( Unlikely ?) and / or the police run out of steam / can't cope..


Thank your kind reply.. I believe I do understand your point of view, and I know many share it. I don't condone violence, and especially on innocent fellow community members, nor do I condone the negative social engineering which is going on in our society and the eradication of our sovreignty and the deliberate dismantling of our economy, all as part of the NWO agenda, with a view to fracturing it to better subdue and control it. I am against slavery and serfdom in all its forms.

My belief is increasingly that these riots were probably instigated by agents to that end.

Perhaps operation clean up which is going on in those same areas today speaks louder and better than plastic bullets and water hoses. It is, I am sure, a spontaneous and unintended consequence of these events and I feel a huge sense of gratitude to all those people taking part. IIt lifts the soul. Had I known about it I would have been there too with my broom and dustpan.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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The use of agents provocateurs is as old as the establishment itself. It is a tactic which has been repeatedly used over centuries, and is being used today.

An exerpt from the Wikipedia entry on agents provocateurs:




Francesco Cossiga, former head of secret services and Head of state of Italy, advised the 2008 minister in charge of the police, on how to deal with the protests from teachers and students:[8]

He should do what I did when I was Minister of the Interior. [...] infiltrate the movement with agents provocateurs inclined to do anything [...] And after that, with the strength of the gained population consent, [...] beat them for blood and beat for blood also those teachers that incite them. Especially the teachers. Not the elderly, of course, but the girl teachers yes.

It is alleged by British Liberal Democrat MP Tom Brake that the Metropolitan Police made use of agents provocateurs during the G20 Protests in London.[9]

After the 2011 anti-cuts protest in London, a video filmed by the BBC was distributed throughout the internet, which shows an alleged agent provocateur being passed through police lines after displaying his identification to the officers.[10]



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by Freeborn
 


I wouldn’t say incidents that happened 24+ years ago occurred “in recent years”.

perhaps you wouldn't ... then again to those of us who were there, it sometimes seems like yesterday.
btw, is anything older than 5yrs considered "recent" to you?



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 

hahahaha, the reality is ... not much has changed.
for you to think it has vividly exposes your youth.
Take it from those who have experienced supposedly similar events, i assure you, This is a false flag ... regardless how it started.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


Really? So Arthur Scargill documented the miners’ strike on his iphone did he?

Maybe things don’t seem much different to you but for those of us not living under a rock with a tinfoil hat covering our ears they’ve changed quite a bit.

Come up with some evidence and then you can call this a false flag.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by CharterZZ
reply to post by wcitizen
 

I reckon these riots are being organised through facebook, a place where people can spread word like wildfire. These rioters are mostly the bored unemployed people, any sniff of a riot and its like christmas for them.

I dont see any false flag here at all.

it's great that you expressed an opinion, but could you freshen up on the 'news' part before presenting an opinion that has already been debunked, refuted and or proven false?
Blackberry mssging seems to be the choice communication in this case ... not FB or Twitter or Androids or other social media.
If you don't clearly see a false flag, you are not looking close enough.
*** how many teens carry blackberrys?


These rioters are mostly the bored unemployed people
thanks, now i'm sure you're disinfo agent ~~ unless you were there and know the rioters personally?


Lots of teens carry Blackberrys, it's the phone of choice for most of the country, especially the younger generation.

The rioters and looters used Twitter and Facebook but prefer Blackberry Messenger because it's allegedly hard to trace.

Having read posts on ATS and seen rioting and looting not only on tv but spreading across the country to other cities and even to the town I live in, it's clear that those doing it are only rioting and looting because they want to. The police are way out of their depth with so many mainly teens and 20 something year olds taking whatever they like for the hell of it.

No false flag here. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks it is.

ETA - Yes, they are bored, unemplyed people because a lot of the people I've seen rioting and looting in my town and in Birmingham city centre are those who are known to a lot of people in their local areas as those who refuse work and instead conduct in criminal activity as their source of income. My town has been notorious for criminals bragging about their prison sentences and guess what? Many I could easily point out to you if you ventured here as those who do things like that out of boredom are the ones I've seen smashing shop windows and stealing items from stores and random strangers on the street.

Don't even attempt to call me disinfo or something because you're not here and you don't know any of them either. You just see something and your ridiculous way of thinking sees everything as government conspiracy even when it's actually simple to explain as just idiots running riot because they choose to, not because the government paid them to as you seem to suggest.
edit on 9/8/2011 by curious7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
Is this a genuine question or have you already made your mind up?

I really don’t see the point of this thread, you admit you have no proof, I would say you have no evidence at all. Everything in the OP relating the riots to a false flag event is conjecture and circumstance.

This is nothing but idle, unhelpful speculation that will no doubt perpetuate yet more paranoia and ill feeling towards anyone or anything that is perceived as an authority figure.

Fair argument.
What do you think caused all this and how would you explain the apparent inconsistencies in police/gov response and the strangely high level of organization of the rioters?



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Raivan31
 



What do you think caused all this and how would you explain the apparent inconsistencies in police/gov response and the strangely high level of organization of the rioters?


The cause? I don’t know, though the death of Mark Duggan seems to have been a spark I don’t think that necessarily explains the escalation or the target of the violence. I’m happy to accept that I don’t know and will wait for further information before jumping to conclusions like it being a false flag.

Inconsistence police/government response? I wouldn’t call it inconsistent I’d say it’s been quite consistently incompetent and slow. Why this is the case, again I don’t know but there are a number of possibilities that I can think of, some of which I listed above; it could be due under-resourcing, a culture of timidity brought on by criticism of previous police actions, perhaps it was because much of their leadership had left for the summer break, or maybe they’re just very badly prepared. It could also be an elaborate plot to bring about slavery in the UK but considering that there is no evidence for that and the government has resisted calls to bring in the army or use water cannons etc I’d put that low on the list of possibilities.

The apparent organisation; I see no reason to doubt the current thinking that this is being organised through social media and instant messaging. If a bunch of students can organise a flash mob and do the thriller dance in the middle of Trafalgar Square I don’t see why it is so farfetched to think that a group of looters can’t do the same thing.



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