Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

Originally posted by TruthWizard
they get mad because they know by being a part of the masons they are contributing to the destruction and rape of this nation. Its a massive ponzi scheme and they just use lame mock occult rituals to attract more contributes to keep their money flowing.

Riiiiight!

Thanks for your in-depth contribution to the thread. I don't suppose there's any other issues you'd like to lay at the feet of the fraternity?

reply to post by TruthWizard


And just how are Masons destroying or raping the nation? I thought Republicans were doing a fine job of that without our help…

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by TruthWizard
they get mad because they know by being a part of the masons they are contributing to the destruction and rape of this nation. Its a massive ponzi scheme and they just use lame mock occult rituals to attract more contributes to keep their money flowing.

Riiiiight!

Thanks for your in-depth contribution to the thread. I don't suppose there's any other issues you'd like to lay at the feet of the fraternity?

Thank YOU for your in-depth reply.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by TruthWizard

 

And just how are Masons destroying or raping the nation? I thought Republicans were doing a fine job of that without our help…

It's just one of the many tools the TPTB use to recruit and train their goons. why do you think most prominent political figures are involved in some way with the masons. George Washington himself believed the masons had been infiltrated by Illuminati.

Originally posted by TruthWizard
they get mad because they know by being a part of the masons they are contributing to the destruction and rape of this nation. Its a massive ponzi scheme and they just use lame mock occult rituals to attract more contributes to keep their money flowing.

edit on 9-8-2011 by TruthWizard because: typo

If we knew all of that, why would we get mad? Wouldn't we just sit back and grin and enjoy our fruits?

#1, we don't get mad. #2, if we did get frustrated, it would be because good folks might be deterred from joining a great organization, because they read silly inflammatory stuff and actually believe it to some extent.

Take a guy like CydonianKnight. He is probably a pretty good kid, dating a nice girl, with a father and grandfather that are Masons. They want to see him grow and mature and become a good husband, father, provider, and community member, so they invite him to come to a family night at the Mason's lodge. Then, he gets cold feet because of some completely false BS from some internet jockey with no comprehension of real life, and he misses out on an opportunity to improve himself and join a very nice family.

The frustrating part is the fact that some people have a podium to speak from, but they have absolutely no basis for their information, and they might actually cause a good kid to make a bad decision.

Originally posted by TruthWizard
George Washington himself believed the masons had been infiltrated by Illuminati.

No, George Washington believed that continental Freemasonry had been infiltrated by the Bavarian Illuminati. And it had. No doubt about it. (Not that that's a bad thing, if you actually understand what the Bavarian Illuminati's goals were in a historical context…) That was 235 years ago. What does any of that have to do with American Freemasonry and the state of the nation today? The last Mason in the White House was Gerald Ford 35 years ago. You want to blame the economy on him?

reply to post by getreadyalready


I can not believe in someone else's beliefs without tearing them down as a person.

I believe there and good people and bad people.

Originally posted by CydonianKnight
My Girlfriends dad and Grandad are Masons. Been asked to attend some Family Night event in the next upcoming months, i can honestly say i am worried because of the negative comments i hear about Freemasonry on here.

This site is pretty biased so your views are very skewed. Masons are by far some of the nicest people anyone could ever know. Note I am not saying non-masons can't be nicer because non-masons can be nicer than masons!

Originally posted by majesticgent
I have a question.

Is one of the requirements to be a Mason monotheistic faith, and if so why?

I've always wondered that. I asked one of my barbers who was a Mason, and he said to seek the answers to the questions I ask, go to the local lodge and ask/join. Well I never did, so I figured this would be a good forum to ask.

Never really been interested in joining though as I'm weary of joining cliques, groups, fraternities, etc. No offense; it's just that I'm more of a loner.

edit on 9-8-2011 by majesticgent because: worded my question a bit better

I used to think like that . I never really want to join a clique or group ever. I said to myself that I would never join a meaningless fraternity (ie college fraternity). I just kind of threw my thoughts away because I can't live with my thoughts chaining me down. Life is too short to do that and if you want to live with the same stubborn thoughts for the rest of your life then I would say your time on earth was very much a big waste and you didn't live your life fully. I say it was a really good choice to join no regrets.

Yes you do need to believe in some supreme being. You do not even need to be in an organized faith. I think a really good amount of members in the fraternity do not have an organized faith that they subscribe to. There are a lot of thoughts of god I hear from other members, such as 'god is conciousness' or 'god is everything and everyone' etc. As demonstrated in this thread there are Sikh, Islamic, Christian, Jewish members of course.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by TruthWizard
George Washington himself believed the masons had been infiltrated by Illuminati.

No, George Washington believed that continental Freemasonry had been infiltrated by the Bavarian Illuminati. And it had. No doubt about it. (Not that that's a bad thing, if you actually understand what the Bavarian Illuminati's goals were in a historical context…) That was 235 years ago. What does any of that have to do with American Freemasonry and the state of the nation today? The last Mason in the White House was Gerald Ford 35 years ago. You want to blame the economy on him?

Thats a false statement.

Regan,the bushes,the clintons, and obama are all masons.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by TruthWizard
George Washington himself believed the masons had been infiltrated by Illuminati.

No, George Washington believed that continental Freemasonry had been infiltrated by the Bavarian Illuminati. And it had. No doubt about it. (Not that that's a bad thing, if you actually understand what the Bavarian Illuminati's goals were in a historical context…) That was 235 years ago. What does any of that have to do with American Freemasonry and the state of the nation today? The last Mason in the White House was Gerald Ford 35 years ago. You want to blame the economy on him?

Thats a false statement.

Regan,the bushes,the clintons, and obama are all masons.

are they all high level masons?

Originally posted by fordrew

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by TruthWizard
George Washington himself believed the masons had been infiltrated by Illuminati.

No, George Washington believed that continental Freemasonry had been infiltrated by the Bavarian Illuminati. And it had. No doubt about it. (Not that that's a bad thing, if you actually understand what the Bavarian Illuminati's goals were in a historical context…) That was 235 years ago. What does any of that have to do with American Freemasonry and the state of the nation today? The last Mason in the White House was Gerald Ford 35 years ago. You want to blame the economy on him?

Thats a false statement.

Regan,the bushes,the clintons, and obama are all masons.

are they all high level masons?

That I don't know.

Bush went to a Cowboys game last year. I do know that. What size prison jumpsuit would George Bush fit in?

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


Actually, I've never seen it confirmed that any of them are Masons? Obama was supposedly a Prince Hall Mason, but that has been seriously refuted, and basically proven false. Bush was supposedly and likely a member of Skull and Bones, but he is not a Mason. I never heard that Clinton was a Mason, but I know a lot of Arkansas Masons, and if he had been a Mason, I'm sure it would have come up.

Plus, Masons are proud of our brethren that do attain political office, so we would be celebrating the fact that these guys are Masons, if it were true.

Unfortunatetly, it is not true, they are not Masons, and it is too bad. If they had been Masons, perhaps they would have been better presidents!

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman

That's Art de Hoyos signature.

reply to post by majesticgent

A majority of jurisdictions around the world don't require a monotheistic belief, but rather just a faith in a supreme being.

reply to post by JoshNorton

Not to mention getting changes passed by the voting members of that particular body (and level of body) and verified its legality by the Committee on Jurisprudence.

reply to post by TruthWizard

Scapegoating anyone?

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman

Negative ghostrider. Unless you can show us when each of them was initiated, passed, and raised, and in what Lodge. The last President to be a Master Mason was Gerald Ford. Reagan was given an honorary membership in the Shriners and Scottish Rite, but that doesn't confer upon him the first 3-degrees nor did that honorary membership give him membership rights (attending meetings, voting, etc). It was a show of appreciation by the Masons to a worthy President. Clinton was in the DeMolay (kind of like the boy scouts for the Masons); he never joined. Obama is not nor was ever a Mason (AFA&AM, F&AM, or PHA). Neither Bush's were in the Masons, but are members of the Skull & Bones (which is not an affiliated Masonic organization).

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


False , Clinton was Demoly and that was it . None of them you posted were Freemasons , but if you do not agree with me , by all means post their lodge name and numbers , I sure would love to see them .

Thanks for asking my question.

By monotheistic faith I meant believe in one God/god. Like an atheist could not join because they do not believe in a God, gods, or the concept of a creator?

So whether you believe in YHWH/Jehovah/God/I AM, Yeshua/Jesus, Allah, god, a god, Azazel, Krishna, Buddah, LAM, Lucifer, Satan, (insert deity here) then you could roll with the idea that there is a Grand Architect / creator? Am I on the right track to understanding it?

I guess loner was a bad word selection and I should have used introvert instead. I'm not a loner in the fact that I shy away from human interaction like a hermit. Meaning that I never really fit in with a group because of the way I think. Nine times out of ten, I tend to not go along with the group-think mentality and do things the way I want to do, or think is right.

In my field of work, I'm forced to work within a group atmosphere. Very argumentative, ego centric, capable, and the entire range of personality types exist in these groups. I have learned when to lead, follow, or simply get out of the way. I've learned from the people in my profession that are better than me and took their advice, and have mentored those that needed some help in order that they get to where I am. Any chance I get, I tend to network with people that I feel can mutually benefit each other.

Socially I'm an introvert the majority of the times, but I can be extroverted when I need to be.

Originally posted by majesticgent
Thanks for asking my question.

By monotheistic faith I meant believe in one God/god. Like an atheist could not join because they do not believe in a God, gods, or the concept of a creator?

So whether you believe in YHWH/Jehovah/God/I AM, Yeshua/Jesus, Allah, god, a god, Azazel, Krishna, Buddah, LAM, Lucifer, Satan, (insert deity here) then you could roll with the idea that there is a Grand Architect / creator? Am I on the right track to understanding it?

Yes, that is an excellent understanding. Even believing in Mother Gaia or a spiritual thread running through all living things like Buddhists and Shambhalists could qualify you as a Mason. You just have to be able to honestly answer the question that you believe in one, ever-living creator/deity/god.

I guess loner was a bad word selection and I should have used introvert instead. I'm not a loner in the fact that I shy away from human interaction like a hermit. Meaning that I never really fit in with a group because of the way I think. Nine times out of ten, I tend to not go along with the group-think mentality and do things the way I want to do, or think is right.

Socially I'm an introvert the majority of the times, but I can be extroverted when I need to be.

Going against the "group-think" is almost a requirement in Masonry. There are very few "yes-men" in Masonry. All of our members are intelligent and independent people with their own strong opinions. Many of our members are successful business men and entrepreneurs and executives, and they are used to making good decisions in the face of adversity. Other members are just regular blue collar men, but they are strong-willed, good providers, and hard workers, and they are not likely to bow to any group-think mentality.

You needn't worry about that. This is not a college fraternity or a popularity contest, this is a place for grown men to learn from the experiences and morality of other grown men, in a system that has been proven over centuries of time, and in a structure that has been the basis for every other known fraternity, corporate board room, and basis for our very government! It is a group, and a system proven to be very successful.

Muzzleflash

But I don't think anyone below 32nd degree will have a clue about it.

JoshNorton

How can you claim to support it when you wont even know what it's all REALLY about until you reach the highest levels?”

Hello, OP, I think I have a clue to your question. I don't think they get mad either; I think it is merely frustration, and a little bit of sour grapes.

I grabbed those two quotes because they illustrate a point I would like to make based on MuzzleFlash's misunderstanding and the quote that JoshNorton quoted.

In none of these 'secret societies', which utilize Templar Order, are the 'secrets' saved for the 'end' or higher degrees.

Like all true systems of initiation the 'Final Secret' is in the first lesson. That is a universal quality of these organizations and if you are a quick little Monkey then you are going to get it and if you aren't then you aren't.

It takes work and preparation and if you don't have it then, well, that may be the origin of the sour grapes.

One thing I have noticed for sure in these 'societies' and 'lodge culture' in general; 99% of the applicants have no idea at all what they are getting in to, they actually think they are going to learn it all there . If they have really come to learn; most seem to be around for the pot lucks and a sense of community.

The Masons on ATS are great guys but a little bit lazy. I have found that once you guys are taken out of familiar territory you get all lazy and the thread dies. Is it because when someone who has their crap together with this subject matter shows up you gentlemen actually have to go to work, and just pulling something out of your box of debunking memorabilia won't cut it? I think so.

I have had fun meeting you guys on these threads and I have no personal axe to grind concerning Freemasonry. It is just that it has been an interest and a hobby for so long that I am in Pig heaven on ATS where folks actually want to talk about it. At least until it becomes work.

So that is my theory. If the issue can't be dealt with immediately by grabbing something out of the box then the frustration ensues.

We can revisit Lucifer and Pikes fascination with him any time you'd like.



Ed. I just wanted to add that I really did mean that. I will say it a final time because I will have to be in character if we are supposed to be on opposite sides of the fence.

I, Frater210, have no personal woody against Freemasonry. I have just been fascinated since I was a little kid and love to talk about things I have discovered along the way.

You might be interested in what I have found because I have belonged to all of the 'Other' organizations (and yours) that also utilize Templar Order.

Let's be friends.

reply to post by Frater210


I think the threads typically die when they reach an impasse between logic/reason/fact and emotion. The "anti-Masons" typically come to some point where they resort to two argument techniques. Either we are all too "low-level" to comprehend the "truth," or we are complicit in covering up the secrets intentionally. No matter how much personal experience, fact, and resources are shared, if someone is intent on hating Masonry, then they will continually come back to those two arguments.

I don't believe the Freemasons on ATS are lazy, just frustrated, and aware that some arguments are fruitless.

As for me, I know there are many Masons more knowledgeable than myself, and I learn a lot from both our experienced Masons, and also from the anti-Masons. As for me, I am a little lazy in debating all the particulars. If someone is truly interested, they need to approach the fraternity and learn the same way I did. If they are only interested in bashing the fraternity, then I'm not going to waste my time with them. That is just me though, others such as Augustus and Network Dude, and Josh, and KSpigpen, and many others are patient and knowledgeable, and they share a lot of their time here. I admire them, and I don't see how anyone could consider their efforts "lazy."

Originally posted by Frater210
Muzzleflash

But I don't think anyone below 32nd degree will have a clue about it.

JoshNorton

How can you claim to support it when you wont even know what it's all REALLY about until you reach the highest levels?”

Hello, OP, I think I have a clue to your question. I don't think they get mad either; I think it is merely frustration, and a little bit of sour grapes.

I grabbed those two quotes because they illustrate a point I would like to make based on MuzzleFlash's misunderstanding and the quote that JoshNorton quoted.

In none of these 'secret societies', which utilize Templar Order, are the 'secrets' saved for the 'end' or higher degrees.

Like all true systems of initiation the 'Final Secret' is in the first lesson. That is a universal quality of these organizations and if you are a quick little Monkey then you are going to get it and if you aren't then you aren't.

It takes work and preparation and if you don't have it then, well, that may be the origin of the sour grapes.

One thing I have noticed for sure in these 'societies' and 'lodge culture' in general; 99% of the applicants have no idea at all what they are getting in to, they actually think they are going to learn it all there . If they have really come to learn; most seem to be around for the pot lucks and a sense of community.

The Masons on ATS are great guys but a little bit lazy. I have found that once you guys are taken out of familiar territory you get all lazy and the thread dies. Is it because when someone who has their crap together with this subject matter shows up you gentlemen actually have to go to work, and just pulling something out of your box of debunking memorabilia won't cut it? I think so.

I have had fun meeting you guys on these threads and I have no personal axe to grind concerning Freemasonry. It is just that it has been an interest and a hobby for so long that I am in Pig heaven on ATS where folks actually want to talk about it. At least until it becomes work.

So that is my theory. If the issue can't be dealt with immediately by grabbing something out of the box then the frustration ensues.

We can revisit Lucifer and Pikes fascination with him any time you'd like.

Ed. I just wanted to add that I really did mean that. I will say it a final time because I will have to be in character if we are supposed to be on opposite sides of the fence.

I, Frater210, have no personal woody against Freemasonry. I have just been fascinated since I was a little kid and love to talk about things I have discovered along the way.

You might be interested in what I have found because I have belonged to all of the 'Other' organizations (and yours) that also utilize Templar Order.

Let's be friends.

edit on 9-8-2011 by Frater210 because:

Yeah they are on a conspiracy board and have thin skin against bored haters/bashers. What do you expect?

I am somewhat in the same boat on this.

You can learn great knowledge from anyone/thing not just the people/things you respect and hold high.

Not everyone that talks about masons are bashing them.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
You can learn great knowledge from anyone/thing not just the people/things you respect and hold high.

So by your logic if I respect my father I can not acquire any great knowledge from him. I think your paradigm is highly flawed.