Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

I was only responding to your words.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

To Getreadyalready

What exactly was the flaws of Christianity I was using to argue against masonry?

All you Masons accusing me of things I never claimed to be . . . based on what?

You are projecting it based on past experiences on these boards or simply can not fathom a non religious (dogma) type laying claims against your beliefs.

edit on 2-7-2012 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

Maybe we are a bit jaded by past experiences of outrageous claims, but you sure are quoting a lot of scripture. Why use Christian scripture as evidence unless you are arguing as a Christian? To someone who is not a Christian, all the scripture you quote is just irrelavent, and the only way to respond to you is to point out the flaws in the faith. Nothing you are posting has anything to do with Masonry, but it has everything to do with religion?

*****
You know what? I have just gone back through all of your posts in this thread, and you are right. You have not used all that much Christianity in your posts, and you have not been all that attacking. Perhaps we are hyper-sensitive.

You have mostly referred to Zeus, Capricorn, Astrology, Baphomet, and Satan. To me all those things are just silliness anyway. I'm not really interested in the Roman Soap Operas. Satan wasn't even imagined at the time Masonry claims its roots, and Satan is still imaginary to this day. You already admitted in This Post that you are merely offering insight into our symbolism. That is fair enough. We use symbols and allegory intentionally so that any individual may interpret it in their own way. You are more than welcome to your opinion of our symbols.

It seems we hardly disagree on anything, and maybe I have been arguing for the sake of arguing? I think all of your "insight" is just silly, but then again you aren't stating it for the likes of me; you've already said that.

I'll stop attacking your notions. In my opinion, as a Mason, and as one that has actually experienced the degree work, and administered the degree work, and spent years absorbing the opinions of brother Masons, I think you are way off base, but your opinion is your opinion, and you're welcome to it.

reply to post by getreadyalready


A word from an honored 33 degree Mason about the importance of your symbols.

"The philosophic power of Freemasonry lies in its symbols, its priceless heritage form the Mystery schools of antiquity."

(Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, p.578, 2003, original edition 1928).

The arcana of the ancient Mysteries were never revealed to the profane except through the media of symbols. Symbolism fulfilled the dual office of concealing the sacred truths from the uninitiated and revealing them to those qualified to understand the symbols.
— Manly P. Hall; The Secret Teachings of all Ages

Perhaps a bit more studying would unveil the mysteries of Masonry of you which you have been revealed?

And in response to your views of Christianity . . .

In the remote past the gods walked with men and while the instructors from the invisible planes of Nature were still laboring with the infant humanity of this planet, they chose from among the sons of men the wisest and the truest. These they labored with, preparing them to carry on the work of the gods after the spiritual hierarchies themselves had withdrawn into the invisible worlds.

With these specially ordained and illumined sons they left the keys of their great wisdom, which was the knowledge of good and evil.

They ordained these anointed and appointed ones to be priests or mediators between themselves (the gods) and that humanity which had not yet developed the eyes which permitted them to gaze into the face of Truth and live.

— Manly P Hall; What the Ancient Wisdom Expects of Its Disciples

How about you quote some scripture on the above?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Hall didn't frame all of his work on the most accurate of information. Plus he wrote this decades prior to even joining the Masonic fraternity.

Regardless, this is one man's opinion? Is his the only one that matters? What about modern day men like Rex Hutchens, Chris Hodapp, Timothy Hogan, Stephen Dafoe, or Cliff Porter? Are the living Masons knowledge not worth anything or is it only the dead ones you like to cite so you can twist their words without their interference?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

How about you quote some scripture on the above?

Why? You posted one man's views. I am one man with views. He believed what he believed. I believe what I believe. I arrived at my beliefs through prayer, meditation, life experience, hard times, good times, and many mistakes made.

No need for me to comment on what he learned through his travels. Those are between him and the God he speaks to.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I didn't know that you could be so truthful... wise... and down right impressive, yet still come off as a smart ass.

reply to post by Pinocchio

It takes skill.

Originally posted by Pinocchio
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

I didn't know that you could be so truthful... wise... and down right impressive, yet still come off as a smart ass.

I have short bursts here and there, but now I'm spent. Stay tuned for incoherent rambling for awhile until the the genius returns.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

Hall didn't frame all of his work on the most accurate of information. Plus he wrote this decades prior to even joining the Masonic fraternity.

Regardless, this is one man's opinion? Is his the only one that matters? What about modern day men like Rex Hutchens, Chris Hodapp, Timothy Hogan, Stephen Dafoe, or Cliff Porter? Are the living Masons knowledge not worth anything or is it only the dead ones you like to cite so you can twist their words without their interference?

What is wrong with highly honored masons of the past century, is their knowledge and teaching no longer accepted?

Have they been designated 'irregular' now or were they still living in the days of operative masonry?

Freemasonry: Its Hidden Measning
www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

ancient secret doctrine and symbolism which is concealed in masonic allegory and symbolism, it was but to preserve these truths for future generations that masonry was perpetuated

Geroge H Steinmetz

Most of the truly great Masonic writers have deplored the lack of esoteric knowledge among the craft in general. Mackey speaks of the "Parrot Mason," describing him as: "One who commits to memory questions and answers of the catechetical lectues, and the formulas of the ritual, but pays no attention to the history and philosophy of the institution;

called a Parrot Mason because he repeats what he has learned without any concept of its true meaning.
Geroge H Steinmetz

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


So, absent any kind of answer, you decided to just answer a question with a question?

Regardless, this is one man's opinion? Is his the only one that matters? What about modern day men like Rex Hutchens, Chris Hodapp, Timothy Hogan, Stephen Dafoe, or Cliff Porter?

Answered with...

What is wrong with highly honored masons of the past century, is their knowledge and teaching no longer accepted?

Have they been designated 'irregular' now or were they still living in the days of operative masonry?

How about you answer first. The flaws with quoting Hall have already been pointed out. He wrote his most famous works decades before he was a Mason, so attributing a work to "Manly P. Hall 33rd Degree Mason" is drastically incorrect. The guy that wrote the works was not a Mason at all. He later became one, but he wasn't that guy when he wrote the works.

Other than that, there is nothing wrong with quoting historical accounts and writings of honored Masons, but should they carry more weight than current Masons? That was the question. Do you think we should ignore the current Masonic scholars and only quote from the dead ones? Apparently you missed the fact that even our Constitution of the US is supposedly a living document that was just recently reinterpreted by the Supreme Court in a shocking manner. Written works don't always translate to modern times. That is precisely the reason Masons use allegory and symbolism and refuse to write things down. Things that are written down cannot evolve and survive the test of time. The works of Hall or Pike are fine, but they are incomplete, and they do not reflect the evolving form of Masonry.

At one point it was frowned upon to record Jazz music. Jazz was never meant to be recorded. The music was alive, and evolving, and recording it was to kill the spirit of the music. Masonry is the same way. Once you write it down, it is immediately inadequate, because it is rigid and out of date.

Originally posted by AzazeI
Because they worship Lucifer. They call themselves Christians, more like Antichristian. Search Mason admits to worshipping Lucifer on youtube
Alex Jones has already exposed this
Lower class Masons have no clue what's going on at the top

edit on 8-8-2011 by AzazeI because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-8-2011 by AzazeI because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-8-2011 by AzazeI because: (no reason given)

It's comments like that that make us angry... false accusations about a well-meaning fraternity.

Because we are the profane. Plus it then doesn't require membership and homage to their power hierarchy. If they had revealed all their sacred mysteries already, they wouldn't exist.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Hall was awarded the 33rd degree honors as a result of said literature.

Why don't I quote from living masons? There was a time when the modern interpretation was that the Earth was flat, just because they are alive does not mean they are more correct.

Why don't you or KSigMason quote from living masons to disprove the meaning of the symbols?

Now you are reducing yourself to the feeble arguments of a lawyer manipulating the perceptions of the jury through emotional appeals. There is no logical fallacy aside from those you attributed yourself.

Originally posted by banjozach

Originally posted by AzazeI
Because they worship Lucifer. They call themselves Christians, more like Antichristian. Search Mason admits to worshipping Lucifer on youtube
Alex Jones has already exposed this
Lower class Masons have no clue what's going on at the top

edit on 8-8-2011 by AzazeI because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-8-2011 by AzazeI because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-8-2011 by AzazeI because: (no reason given)

It's comments like that that make us angry... false accusations about a well-meaning fraternity.

LoL I do think your avatar is appropriate as the captain which Kurk took over for was Captain Albert Pike.

Wonder then why the borg fly through space in CUBEs?

Can you say 'beam me up Scotty?"

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Hall was awarded the 33rd degree honors as a result of said literature.

One does not attain those honors for being famous, they attain them for being a good Mason for a number of years, and being well-respected by their peers. Hall earned that respect, and that is fine.

Many Masons admire the writings of Hall. He still doesn't speak on behalf of all Masons, and a Mason does not have to necessarily agree with Hall to still be a good Mason. In fact, I have a very good friend who is a 33rd Degree Mason, and Past District Deputy Grand Master, and he does not agree with a lot of what Hall or Pike wrote about. His opinion after a lifetime in Freemasonry is just as valid as their opinions, and my own opinion is drastically different from my friends, and Halls, and Pikes.

There are Masons in this very thread that have attained higher honors than Hall did. Their opinions have been shared here openly and honestly with you, and you don't even realize it. There is no need for them to brag about their own accomplishments, their opinions are their own, and they don't purport to speak on behalf of the fraternity.

I think everyone here has admitted to the existence of our symbols, but the interpretation of those symbols is up to each individual. No one is denying that Hall believed what Hall believed, but what does that have to do with me, or Ksig, or any other Mason?

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
LoL I do think your avatar is appropriate as the captain which Kurk took over for was Captain Albert Pike.

Wonder then why the borg fly through space in CUBEs?

Can you say 'beam me up Scotty?"

Obviously YOU can't. Because any nerd worth his salt knows it was Captain Christopher Pike who was replaced by Captain Kirk.

You can't even troll intelligently.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
LoL I do think your avatar is appropriate as the captain which Kurk took over for was Captain Albert Pike.

Wonder then why the borg fly through space in CUBEs?

Can you say 'beam me up Scotty?"

Obviously YOU can't. Because any nerd worth his salt knows it was Captain Christopher Pike who was replaced by Captain Kirk.

You can't even troll intelligently.

Great retaliation, now do point out the fallacy of the borg conquering space in their space cubes.

Funny how you Masons take every chance you can to call me fool, unintelligent, or even little girl.

Quite rude by most standards.

It seems you have embodied the title of the thread sufficiently to lend it veracity.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
What is wrong with highly honored masons of the past century, is their knowledge and teaching no longer accepted?

I don't think you are capable of answering questions. Well as I said it his opinion nor was it an accepted policy by any Grand Lodge. Often you anti-Masons act like him, Mackay, and Pike are the only opinions that matter. There are many celebrated authors today, but again it comes down to their opinion which is not necessarily indicative of the practices of any Masonic body.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Many men have been awarded such as Rex Hutchens and Chris Hodapp have received the 33rd degree. I also forgot two authors: Art de Hoyos and Brent Morris (also 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons).

Why don't I quote from living masons? There was a time when the modern interpretation was that the Earth was flat, just because they are alive does not mean they are more correct.

So only once their dead is their word worth anything? LOL Maybe its because the dead Brothers cannot make counters to your misconceptions of their work. I don't need to quote from living Masons as I AM A LIVING MASON and I have countered your claims. Does my opinion mean less than these men?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Yes because we haven't been called worse. Come back to me when being called a little girls is equal to be a called a terrorist.

reply to post by KSigMason


You are merely trying to turn the discussion by making flippant remarks that I do not quote masons living today as if there is such a dramatic change in the teachings over the last fifty years to account for such.

As for your comment that they don't influence the practices of the lodges let me remind you that non of your lodges perform the same rituals which was made quite clear by no1smootha, networkdude, and yourself concerning the use of a coffin vs a carpet.

It is a common tactic called deflection.

I do not quote from these living masons because I do not see that they have added anything significant to the argument which has not already been addressed.

If you were asking me to quote them (the living masons you mention above) and that is the question which I have not answered . . . I don't see the point you are trying to make here.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

I'm making the point that you are misusing quotes of those who cannot speak for themselves anymore. Plus, it is only their opinion, their interpretation, not the accepted policy of the Fraternity. That seems to be escaping your grasp.

So what Lodges practice according to the writings of Hall? Please tell us Mr. Know It All.

I do not quote from these living masons because I do not see that they have added anything significant to the argument which has not already been addressed.

Translation: "I can't misuse their words nor does it help me further my slander and disinformation campaign."