Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

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posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 

My Lodge uses a coffin at exactly the same moment your's uses the mat Getready, just as you thought. It is discussed in the monitors of mainstream Freemasonry, but it is rarely actually used there.




posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
Grand Lodge of British Columbia

I don't know about any symbolism from the coffin, although it would make sense with some of our degree work. According to the link above it is a symbol of mortality.

ETA:
They have a cool anti-Masonry tab, where they refute many of the most popular bogus claims!
edit on 28-6-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)


Too bad that list does not include much of what I am expounding upon . . .

I am already quite aware of the implications of the coffin and vine as representative of direct contact with the spiritual realm.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by no1smootha
My Lodge uses a coffin at exactly the same moment your's uses the mat Getready, just as you thought. It is discussed in the monitors of mainstream Freemasonry, but it is rarely actually used there.


In my jurisdiction it only appears in the Master Mason lecture as a symbol of mortality.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
The Romans regarded Saturn as the original and autochthonous ruler of the Capitolium,[64] and the first king of Latium or even the whole of Italy.


www.merriam-webster.com...


Definition of AUTOCHTHONOUS
1
a : indigenous or endemic to a region b : contracted in the area where reported
2
: originated in that part of the body where found—used chiefly of pathological conditions
—au·toch·tho·nous·ly adverb


en.wikipedia.org...


Autochthonous, or indigenism, ethnic nationalism promoting the identity of an indigenous people


You quote later tradition which was predated by the Saturn founding. How about you take your own advice and not rewrite history by omission.



Stop digging.


Is that a threat?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by no1smootha
My Lodge uses a coffin at exactly the same moment your's uses the mat Getready, just as you thought. It is discussed in the monitors of mainstream Freemasonry, but it is rarely actually used there.


In my jurisdiction it only appears in the Master Mason lecture as a symbol of mortality.


First its not a symbol, then when one of you lets it slip all of the sudden everyone comes out of the

woodwork ( pun totally intended
)






Anyone following this thread can see the act of disinformation . . .



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
You quote later tradition which was predated by the Saturn founding.


Which is exactly the point. Saturn was usurped by Jupiter (Optimus Maximus) and became the ruler of Rome's pantheon of Gods deposing Saturn and sending him to the bottom of the Capitoline Hill while Jupiter's Temple stood far above.


How about you take your own advice and not rewrite history by omission.


Considering my first post pointed out that Saturn ruled first there was no ommision.


Is that a threat?


Why? Does your lack of historical knowledge cause you to feel threatened?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
First its not a symbol...


Masonic ritual is not the same from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. New Jersey uses one of the oldest and it is very different from Massachusetts which is almost as old. I almost could not follow parts of their ritual when I saw it.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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what beliefs ... add the tag secret society and before you know it masons are devil worshiping monsters

all complete dribble of course ...they are no different to anyone else apart from there financial and business connections which gains you entry into the masons in the first place ....in a nut shell ...its all about the money

demonizing masons in the modern world is no different to the witch hunts of times gone by



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
First its not a symbol...


Masonic ritual is not the same from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. New Jersey uses one of the oldest and it is very different from Massachusetts which is almost as old. I almost could not follow parts of their ritual when I saw it.


It is merely the evolution of the craft, like Jupiter deposing Saturn/ operative masonry to speculative.

I do find it ironic that a self proclaimed mason is telling me all the things I do not know when it is prominent to their craft that they play the fool.

And Saturn's temple was always at the base of the mountain, before Zeus ever arrived.
edit on 28-6-2012 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: (no reason given)


The passing from Saturn to Zeus is much the same as operative to speculative masonry in that Sagittarians are reputed to be drawn toward travel and philosophy, and to enjoy social contacts.

Similar to the focus of speculative masonry towards philosophy (as outlined by NetworkDude) and social contracts of business (Sitchin). Zeus is associated with the eagle or Phoenix rather which reminds of the death and rebirth of the coffin from one age/form/incarnation to the next.

The coffin and all seeing eye comes from the winter solstice passing from capricorn through the gates of gemini and returning through cancer, new life from the ashes or plants growing again from the winter freeze at the Suns most northerly rising point.

Zeus was suckled by the goat Capricorn (Saturn) who from the time of Babylon was associated with the All Seeing Eye and being a Light bearer.
edit on 28-6-2012 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Look, you are welcome to come by my lodge and look for a coffin. I will even show you our slide show for our lectures. I am a lot of things, but a liar is not one of them. Either prove me wrong, or let it go.
edit on 29-6-2012 by network dude because: you are pissing me off



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
And Saturn's temple was always at the base of the mountain, before Zeus ever arrived.


Which further reinforces the point when Jupiter's (Optimus Maximus) Temples were built and rebuilt and subsequently stood above Saturn's on the Capitoline Hill from 500BC to 400AD.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:33 AM
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Guy, because they are ruled by CIA!!!



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Murmoshka
 

How can we be ruled by an organization started centuries after we were formed?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Murmoshka
Guy, because they are ruled by CIA!!!


Nope, I've got some friends in the CIA, and they are more curious about us than we are them, LOL!



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Look, you are welcome to come by my lodge and look for a coffin. I will even show you our slide show for our lectures. I am a lot of things, but a liar is not one of them. Either prove me wrong, or let it go.
edit on 29-6-2012 by network dude because: you are pissing me off


Your fellow masons already admitted to using a coffin for rituals, why do you persist with the weak ruse?



Textreply to post by getreadyalready

My Lodge uses a coffin at exactly the same moment your's uses the mat Getready, just as you thought. It is discussed in the monitors of mainstream Freemasonry, but it is rarely actually used there.
-no1smootha


You may be seeking to have me prove that you maintain a coffin on the premise at all times, however I never said that.

I have no need to prove you wrong as your fellow brother masons already have.

Get over it.

Your eye is the Ayin, the light bearer, the Capricorn (sea-goat) who initiates one into self-knowledge and made men into gods, or in modernity good men better.

The goat ruled by Saturn who bears a hexagram on its pole and is representative of the cube, or square which you masons so often go by.

The G between your compass representing "deity" or geometry, the art used to describe and commune with said "deity."



"The Devil" is, historically, the God of any people that one personally dislikes. This has led to so much confusion of thought that THE BEAST 666 has preferred to let names stand as they are, and to proclaim simply that AIWAZ — the solar-phallic-hermetic "Lucifer" is His own Holy Guardian Angel, and "The Devil" SATAN or HADIT of our particular unit of the Starry Universe.

This serpent, SATAN, is not the enemy of Man, but He who made Gods of our race, knowing Good and Evil; He bade "Know Thyself!" and taught Initiation.

He is "the Devil" of the Book of Thoth, and His emblem is BAPHOMET, the Androgyne who is the hieroglyph of arcane perfection. The number of His Atu is XV, which is Yod He, the Monogram of the Eternal, the Father one with the Mother, the Virgin Seed one with all-containing Space. He is therefore Life, and Love.

But moreover his letter is Ayin, the Eye; he is Light, and his Zodiacal image is Capricornus, that leaping goat whose attribute is Liberty.

(Note that the "Jehovah" of the Hebrews is etymologically connected with these. The classical example of such antinomy, one which has led to such disastrous misunderstandings, is that between NU and HAD, North and South, Jesus and John. The subject is too abstruse and complicated to be discussed in detail here. The student should consult the writings of Sir R. Payne Knight, General Forlong, Gerald Massey, Fabre d'Olivet; etc. etc., for the data on which these considerations are ultimately based.)

-Crowley


Ayin
en.wikipedia.org...



The letter name is derived from Proto-Semitic *ʿayn- "eye", and the Phoenician letter had an eye-shape, ultimately derived from the ı͗r hieroglyph
D4
. To this day, 'ayin in Hebrew, Arabic and Maltese means "eye" (‘ayno in Assyrian).


I would pray you are in fact mere fools and not moros.
edit on 30-6-2012 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: Non serviam



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 



Your eye is the Ayin, the light bearer, the Capricorn (sea-goat) who initiates one into self-knowledge and made men into gods, or in modernity good men better.

The goat ruled by Saturn who bears a hexagram on its pole and is representative of the cube, or square which you masons so often go by.

The G between your compass representing "deity" or geometry, the art used to describe and commune with said "deity."


I've never heard any of that in a Mason's lodge, or anything remotely resembling that, but it sounds pretty cool!
I learn more on ATS than anywhere else anyway. I hope you're right.


BTW: Was anything you said there supposed to be negative?

Because in my opinion, God's plan for us all is for us to discover the path to become more god-like, and join God in the spiritual realm. Masons are always seeking more light, so if there is a light-bringer, that is great. Geometry does do a hell of a job at describing our universe, and the more understanding we have of what is observable, the more understanding we'll have of that which is not observable.

Thanks for making this more interesting.

ETA:
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a false path to God. Any path that gets us there is a good one. I don't believe in evil, or hell, or fire and brimstone, and I don't believe in more than one god, so I just really don't see how any of the stuff you're spewing could be considered bad? If it leads to more light, and more god qualities, then I'm all for it.
edit on 30-6-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 

Not all jurisdictions use the same symbols during the rituals.

Are you prone to obsessions?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


From your point of view it is not evil, bad or ungodly.

I am speaking to those who believe in the Bible's truth.

Original sin was sold with the line 'that you would become as god' knowing good and evil.

So your claims to becoming more like God is fitting for the faith and practices you pursue.

Also they speak in Revelations that they would ride the Whore of Babylon and I find it ever so interesting that Satanism and Masonry both represent their 'deity' with the same symbols of the sea goat Capricorn.

I am merely offering insight for those with the eyes to see.

Transcend Time if you want to be closer to God, or at the very least recognize you are a slave to the Lord of Time (Saturn).

The Fallen - Time is on my side



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Yikes.....


Just, damn.

Nevermind.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


One of my favorite movies ever!


Fried Broccoli,

Your very name is similar to the problems with trying to hang Masonry by the rope of Christianity. You are attempting to take something almost flawless and perfectly healthy (did you know Broccoli is the only known vegetable with certain DNA repairing molecules?), and turn it into something unhealthy by way of attaching it to fats and breading.


Masonry is ancient, yet it has persevered, it is spiritual, yet not religious, it is secretive, yet open to anyone that inquires, it requires work, but only as much as any one person is capable of, it uses allegory and symbology, so that one may reach their own conclusions according to their own path. It is almost a perfect organization, and that is why it has persevered................. BUT you attempt to bread and fry it in Christianity? Sure, many brothers are Christians, but Christians do not define the first 3 degrees and core concept of Masonry, any more than Crisco and Flour define Broccoli.

I love the Christian teachings, but I am not a Christian, and my fraternity will not be battered and fried by the misconceptions about religion.

I hope I don't offend my Christian brethren, because as long as their chosen faith leads them where they want to go, then I respect it and admire them, but for me, I don't understand how one can believe in evil, or belief Christ was infallible. Why would Jesus weep? Why would God be angry?

I was at a military funeral yesterday with the Patriot Guard, and the priest read some scripture that just made me scratch my head. Why would Jesus weep at a grave, and why would the priest ask Jesus to weep with us? Shouldn't we be celebrating this person's reunification with God?


Luke 22:44 (KJV) And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground

Hebrews 5:7-9 (KJV)

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;



And those who are premillennialists think that all people have to have the opportunity to accept Christ before Christ will return. That is the reason for their "witnessing," and the reason for their crusades to bring Christianity to the world. It is the reason Christopher Columbus sailed. So, if one has to have the opportunity to accept Christ, and most Christians would believe that infants and simpletons are not doomed to hell for their lack of opportunity to understand the scripture, if that is the case, then why did Jesus weep again at Jerusalem?


Luke 19:41,42
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes.


There are Masons who are Christians, and nothing in Masonry conflicts with that belief, but it does not define Masonry, and therefore it does not work as an argument against Masonry.

Now, if you want to argue against Christianity, and use some of the wisdom of Masonry as your ammunition, have at it, but it doesn't work in reverse. The problems you keep bringing up are problems with the religion, not the fraternity.
edit on 1-7-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)





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