Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

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posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:26 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by Taurean27

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

Whats the problem? Its not like your disrespecting them or anything.


WHY???
It's because some "people" think they know more about Freemasonry than the Freemasons.
We get told by these "experts" that it's all bad and evil, yet that is so far from the truth.
Reading a book does NOT make you an expert, it's the practical side combined with the knowledge learned that makes the student more academic in his field. You can read a book on medicine, but that doesn't make you a doctor.........it makes you more like a quack.!

Freemasonry is the same and I don't need a non Freemason lecturing me on Freemasonry.


No ones attack you.

Relax.

I'm at a loss with the "one ones attack you..........relax" What do you mean?????

I'm answering YOUR question, if you don't mind. And there are many sites out there the questions us Masons all the time and when WE take the time to explain, in a very pleasant manner too, we get their versions thrown at as and we're told we're wrong.
.......and you say..........RELAX.




posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:29 AM
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Okay, this is an American publication from Indiana, but please take time to have a look.
I hope it is helpful.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by Taurean27
I'm at a loss with the "one ones attack you..........relax" What do you mean?????

I'm answering YOUR question, if you don't mind. And there are many sites out there the questions us Masons all the time and when WE take the time to explain, in a very pleasant manner too, we get their versions thrown at as and we're told we're wrong.
.......and you say..........RELAX.


Someone's trolling and has been for a while.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

Fitz



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 06:21 AM
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I've never had a FreeMason get angry when I've asked questions about religion. Perhaps it was your stance when you asked questions.

The assumption is that FreeMasons dictate a religion--- when they don't. To join the FreeMasons...they don't tell you what your religious beliefs have to be.

A FreeMason can be a Christian, a Deist, an Agnostic, an Atheist, a Scientologist, even a Luciferian. They do not dictate religion to their members....however they encourage their members to seek out whatever spiritual path they wish to seek out.

As for the comments at the beginning of the thread calling FreeMasons "satanic" or "Luciferian"....there's a difference between the two.

Luciferianism is NOT satanism. The way I had it explained to me by a FreeMason who was BOTH an Atheist and a Luciferian is that as an Atheist...he did not believe in a deity creator. Instead he believed that humankind was created by aliens...and that angels/fallen angels were really aliens. That Lucifer was one of the aliens out of all the angels/fallen angels that had created humans.

That was ONE FreeMason who was Atheist AND Luciferian ...that was his way of describing it.

Satanism on the other hand is the belief that the world was created by God, that Satan is the devil and they prefer to follow satan. That just isn't the same as Luciferianism. Luciferianism is more like Ancient Alien Theory. They believe Lucifer and other fallen angels are aliens from outer space that created humans. Many reject the Bible and the idea of Creationism.... see the difference?

Anyhow...FreeMason don't dictate religion. Just as the one FreeMason is allowed to be Atheist and Luciferian...others are allowed to be Christian (and go to church 5 days a week if they like)...another FreeMason could be Deist...another could be Scientologist.

They really don't dictate to their members that they have to be a specific religion...they just encourage them to seek out their spiritual path....whatever that path might be.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by MapMistress
 


Hi Mistress,

Thank you for your defense of Freemasons, but I want to clarify one aspect.

One cannot be an Atheist and a Freemason. There are some odd versions of Freemasonry out there, so I believe you have a friend that claims to be what you say, but he would be considered and "irregular Mason" or a "clandestine Mason." There are no Regular Masons that are Atheists.

Also, a Regular Mason must believe in "one ever-living" creator/God/Deity, etc. I don't believe and Alien Race would qualify as a singular deity. Therefore, I don't believe someone that believes in something like Scientology could honestly answer yes to the questions that qualify them to become a Mason.

While Masons do not require any specific religion, and we don't care how you define and name your God, we do care that you have a God, and that you have spirituality that serves as a testament to your character. Religion is important, we just don't get into semantics and names.

I hope that makes it a little more clear.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I concur. As a part of the Entered Aprentice Intitiation, you are to declare that you believe in an Almighty Creator or creative force, better known as TGAOTU.
edit on 18/8/2011 by TheLoneArcher because: Spelling
edit on 18/8/2011 by TheLoneArcher because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by MapMistress
 


Hi Mistress,

Thank you for your defense of Freemasons, but I want to clarify one aspect.

One cannot be an Atheist and a Freemason. There are some odd versions of Freemasonry out there, so I believe you have a friend that claims to be what you say, but he would be considered and "irregular Mason" or a "clandestine Mason." There are no Regular Masons that are Atheists.

Also, a Regular Mason must believe in "one ever-living" creator/God/Deity, etc. I don't believe and Alien Race would qualify as a singular deity. Therefore, I don't believe someone that believes in something like Scientology could honestly answer yes to the questions that qualify them to become a Mason.

While Masons do not require any specific religion, and we don't care how you define and name your God, we do care that you have a God, and that you have spirituality that serves as a testament to your character. Religion is important, we just don't get into semantics and names.

I hope that makes it a little more clear.



Seems masons are very respectful of fellow members.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 


Yes we are, but we are also respectful to non Masons too.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

Whats the problem? Its not like your disrespecting them or anything.


We don't. We love it when seekers inquire. What I, personally, don't like is when people make wild generalizations about us based on a few "bad apples" (which can be said to exist in ANY group of people). I, personally, am also not too thrilled when religious people ask me about Masonry just so they can "cut me off" mid-explanation with,

"You need to be saved!"

From what, dude? From what?



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by muzzleflash
 




That's why everyone is freaked out about them, because it's all messed up and everything is lost in translation.
Good point. One would assume Lucifer and Satan are the same entity. I've seen references to them being different entities but I never really looked into it due to the fact that religious teachings bore me deeply.
So can anyone sum up the difference?


Satan = Sa + Ta + N = "Protector" + "Land" + "Seas" in ancient Egyptian.

He is the protector of the land and the seas, he walks the earth, trying men and testing them.



And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. -- Job 2:2 KJV



When Masons say they "make good men better" it is true.

But, they are not making "Masons" into better men.

Instead, the masons are used to make the good men of society who remain outside the Lodge into better men, by trying them and testing them, just as the Bible says.

Think of it as the devil's workers.

Satan was created as Satan, he never had any other role.

On the other hand Lucifer is a fallen angel:



How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! -- Isaiah 14:12 KJV



Lucifer fell to earth, the same way Jesus incarnated on earth. In fact, Jesus and Lucifer are two sides of the same coin. Both were the most powerful spiritual beings apart from the FATHER. One is sent to earth by the FATHER, the other is made to fall to earth by the FATHER. It's a subtle difference, I know. But both JESUS and LUCIFER have the same numeric value in gematria J+E+S+U+S = 74 = L+U+C+I+F+E+R, where J=10, E=5, etc..So, depending on who is looking at the drama of the high soul coming to earth, the event is interpreted differently. In the end, there is only one FATHER, and only one SON. Some people say, the SON came of his own free will, to save mankind. Others say, the FATHER made him come, so he came entirely at the will of his FATHER, and that's another viewpoint. In either case, these guys left their fabulous post in heaven, to come down to this rotten planet called earth, to be an example, leave a message, etc..the point is...Lucifer is like Jesus, they came from the same abode up there...wherever that is, but the devil has always been with us here on earth.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by DRAZIW
Satan = Sa + Ta + N = "Protector" + "Land" + "Seas" in ancient Egyptian.



Originally posted by DRAZIW
Instead, the masons are used to make the good men of society who remain outside the Lodge into better men, by trying them and testing them, just as the Bible says.

Except you cannot connect Satanic worship with Freemasonry. You cannot make a conclusion from a single argument (or premise). Your premise at that is not valid or sound nor is it founded as you only said something, you didn't give us a source to your work.


Originally posted by DRAZIW
Satan was created as Satan, he never had any other role.

On the other hand Lucifer is a fallen angel:

Wait? You don't even follow what the Bible says.

If you read back in Isaiah a few verses, you'll see they refer to him as the Babylonian King.

You talk of numerical values, but isn't the name "Jesus" a Greek translation while "Lucifer" is Latin? I'm no math wiz, but shouldn't the numbers be taken to a common denominator? And how is it that these ancient and divine figure's name and numerical values are based on modern numbers and language?



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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There comes a point in your life when you realize that vast swaths of humanity are irredeemably stupid. I'm not a mason, but I'm frustrated FOR them because of all the ridiculous # people say about them. How would some of you like to be lied about on a daily basis? Good lord lol



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by LightsideAssassin
 


Totally agree with you. Not just on the subject of masonry but if they can be that easily misguided on something that is open and easily researchable then how bright does the future look for them, discerning information in general.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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Reply to KSigMason

Ummm satanic worship is quite simple once you realize the symbols you use . . .

Because someone might find out that the All Seeing Eye on their apron comes from the constellation Capricorn the Sea-goat EA of Babylon.

www.forecasters.co.nz...



Constellation of Capricorn has also been called the ‘Pather of Light’ and 15,000 years ago, the Sun was at this point on the summer solstice, dating the history of the mythology of this Constellation back 15,000 years. During that time goatskins were sacred and the Goat Fish was recognised in almost every ancient civilisation. He was known as such things as ‘He of the vast intellect’, ‘Lord of the Sacred Eye’ and ‘God of Wisdom’.


Capricorn is called the 'House of Death' and is the birthplace if Saturn whose depiction is that of the Angel (angle
) of Death. He rebelled against his father and ruled over a golden age (atlantis).

Need I go into the Baphomet of satanic worship here or does everyone remember the goat head in the pentagram (which encodes the procession of the sun and zodiac)?

Or a christian perspective might realize that their aprons are symbolic of the figs leaves Adam and Eve used to cover themselves which God disapproved of and so gave them coats of flesh.

Or perhaps that the square or cube they go by is further part of Saturn worship, their star of Solomon/ black cube and be found on the pole of Saturn.

Nothing special about them really other than they are legends in their own minds.
edit on 26-6-2012 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: Too easy now



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
Need I go into the Baphomet of satanic worship here or does everyone remember the goat head in the pentagram (which encodes the procession of the sun and zodiac)?


Yes. Yes you do. Insomuch as Freemasonry doesn't use what is conventionally referred to as the pentagram, it would be a pleasant change if you would be so kind as to tell me what I don't know. Standby hubris


Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
Or a christian perspective might realize that their aprons are symbolic of the figs leaves Adam and Eve used to cover themselves which God disapproved of and so gave them coats of flesh.


Oddly enough, the aprons are symbolic of those worn by operative Masons. Guess you have a thing against anyone who wears clothes. Pity....or not


Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
Or perhaps that the square or cube


The Compass perhaps? Maybe you're a higher degree Mason than I and somehow know and reveal that it's Square and Cube instead of Square and Compass



Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
Nothing special about them really other than they are legends in their own minds.


Nothing special save we are legends in the minds of anti-Masons. I only wish I had the control that antis assign to me. Life would be quite a bit easier were real life so. Alas and alack....

Fitz



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by LightsideAssassin
There comes a point in your life when you realize that vast swaths of humanity are irredeemably stupid.
Think of how stupid the average person is. By definition of average, half the people in the world are dumber than that.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by LightsideAssassin
There comes a point in your life when you realize that vast swaths of humanity are irredeemably stupid.

Think of how stupid the average person is. By definition of average, half the people in the world are dumber than that.


Actually, I'll take exception top your assertion, JN. T'isn't the average person who's "irredeemably stupid. Just the irredeemably stupid who've been provided with a bully pulpit from which to demonstrate and broadcast their irredeemable stupidity

Fitz
edit on 26-6-2012 by Fitzgibbon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Perhaps you should provide your definition of operative mason.

Masonry is masonry
www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...


IT is now generally accepted by Masonic authorities that the modern fraternity of Freemasons had its origin among the builder guilds of England in the Middle Ages. A rapid survey of the gild system in general was published in this department in November; it is now in order to examine with more care the Masonic gilds themselves, with a view to gaining a picture (necessarily somewhat in the rough, and in outline) of the customs and manners of our Masonic forbears, a subject that is saved from being academic and dry by the fact that most of the rules, regulations and customs now in operation among us are traced to the early Operative Masons (as it is the habit to describe them), so that it is impossible for us to understand the Masonry of today apart from the Masonry of many centuries ago.


So are you saying that modern masonry is not that same as its roots, which lends to further speculations?

I never said your pentagram was the baphomet head, however it does encode the procession and the astronomical teachings are of Freemasonry, and thus the lord of the rings/Time Saturn.

How about you provide evidence that the all seeing eye on your aprons is not from capricorn or that the pillars are the gates of Gemini.

We all know masons do not work with brick and mortar.

Your compass and square are many things one of them is the masculine and feminine which is no different than the star of Solomon.

The G of geometry or your god brings in the cube which is defined by geometry and when depicted in three dimensional form can be unfolded into a cross.

Should we go into your order of the red men which is play on the Phoenicians and Zeus seducing the kings daughter Europa (often depicted as a wide eyed female riding a bull) her wide eyes symbolizing her knowledge of the astronomical procession or master of Time . . .
edit on 26-6-2012 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: Transcend Time



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Perhaps you should provide your definition of operative mason.

Masonry is masonry
www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...


IT is now generally accepted by Masonic authorities that the modern fraternity of Freemasons had its origin among the builder guilds of England in the Middle Ages. A rapid survey of the gild system in general was published in this department in November; it is now in order to examine with more care the Masonic gilds themselves, with a view to gaining a picture (necessarily somewhat in the rough, and in outline) of the customs and manners of our Masonic forbears, a subject that is saved from being academic and dry by the fact that most of the rules, regulations and customs now in operation among us are traced to the early Operative Masons (as it is the habit to describe them), so that it is impossible for us to understand the Masonry of today apart from the Masonry of many centuries ago.


So are you saying that modern masonry is not that same as its roots, which lends to further speculations?


Freemasonry (aka speculative Masonry) is not operative Masonry. That's a nice way of saying that were you to go to a Freemason's Lodge looking for someone to fix the pointing on your chimney, you're very likely to be disappointed.


Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
I never said your pentagram was the baphomet head, however it does encode the procession and the astronomical teachings are of Freemasonry, and thus the lord of the rings/Time Saturn.


Funny. What was it you said previously?


Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
Need I go into the Baphomet of satanic worship here or does everyone remember the goat head in the pentagram (which encodes the procession of the sun and zodiac)?


Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Yes. Yes you do. Insomuch as Freemasonry doesn't use what is conventionally referred to as the pentagram, it would be a pleasant change if you would be so kind as to tell me what I don't know. Standby hubris


Unless you're providing a connection, why bring it up unless you're out for a drive-by slag? You raise it. The point is yours to withdraw if you've the character. I have my money down on the greater likelihood


Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
How about you provide evidence that the all seeing eye on your aprons is not from capricorn or that the pillars are the gates of Gemini.


Funny ol' thing. My Master Mason's apron just like those of every other Master Mason's apron in my lodge doesn't have an all seeing eye? Perhaps you want to suggest I'm part of an irregular lodge? Perish the thought you might admit you're mistaken or that you'd provide proof rather than expecting someone else to disprove your assertion


Much more likely you'll accuse me of being a liar

Fitz



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


speculative masons and irregular lodges merely come from a lodge that has yet to be accepted by the Grand Blue lodges which is an easy out to say they are not from the same masonic community.

Your blue lodges are merely a collection of lodges with a public face to denounce any actions from other lodges which would mar the appearance of Masonry as a whole.

Like a PR firm.

LoL deny it as you will but you know I see through it, deceive the others all you like but I will be laughing when you knock on wood and there is no one there to answer


Yea that whole spirit body, green man schtick you have going on, yes that plant growing from the casket (not part of Freemasonry? LoL).

You may think you have been reborn but that is all a matter of perspective.
edit on 26-6-2012 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: A long time coming, hahaha





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