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Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

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posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
So what are you trying to prove with this new website?
They have a list of people that attended. So what.
I'm not trying to "prove" anything. You asked for a membership list, and I gave you a membership list. No reason to be an ass if you forgot your own question.




posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Do freemasons believe that Bilderberg,CFR,IMF,and Trilateral Commission are nefarious organizations?


These are organizations of grown-ups meeting to discuss political and economical issues. Why would people meeting to discuss solutions to world issues be nefarious?

I can take these organizations and put them into a pretend organizational chart or pyramid entitled "Illuminati", add some Freemasons and the Vatican into the mix and then make thousands of dollars selling my conspiracy book.




How do you feel about the bank bailouts and Obama, Bushes, Clintons, Chaney etc being apart of the organizations above?


Politicians should join:

* Think-Tanks
* Discussion Clubs
* Events where you can speak openly without the media dissecting every word
* International-Relations group.

I want politicians to keep abreast of the latest international developments. I want them to join groups in which they can temporarily discuss from a non-partisan, non-media-hyped platform.
edit on 15-8-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
I tend to hold onto the more romantic notion that "operative" Masons were our earliest brethren and preceded all other orders...


I am not sure if anyone will definitely know the answer but you are close in your assessment. The Regius Poem predates the Templars by 200 years and makes reference to Masonry well before the formation of the order.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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Im sorry, but this has to be the longest troll thread I have ever seen....

With all of our forums on Masons, there is no WAY that anyone with any critical thinking skills what so ever would even post such a short thread, asking THAT question

UNLESS they were trying to antagonize.........christ what is ATS coming to, this thing should have been shut down before it got to page two

pure bait thread



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


agreed. Slowly and slowly ATS I try to stay away from ATS because of the pure amount of stupidity people flaunt and display over here...



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by fordrew
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


agreed. Slowly and slowly ATS I try to stay away from ATS because of the pure amount of stupidity people flaunt and display over here...


Unfortunately, society at the moment seems to honour stupidity as something to aspire to, like some sort of badge. Welcome to JackAss© society.

Fitz



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by fordrew
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


agreed. Slowly and slowly ATS I try to stay away from ATS because of the pure amount of stupidity people flaunt and display over here...


Unfortunately, society at the moment seems to honour stupidity as something to aspire to, like some sort of badge. Welcome to JackAss© society.

Fitz


Whats so stupid about ATS? Me? Or the whole idea that some large scale conspiracies are true?

Everything is fine....er...yeah.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Everything is fine....er...yeah.


When a conspiracist is thoroughly and completely debunked from every possible angle, the last weak resort is to say

"Hm...yeah right...like everything is just fine.. Nothing to see here, move on folks
"

...as if the only way events can be caused is by evil conspiracies. These are ways events can happen:

1. Through a Cause: One thing sets another thing in motion

2. Through positive attempts that have negative effects.

3. Through negative attempts that have positive effects.

4. Through multiple causes

5. Randomly (S*ht Happens)

6. Through deliberate orchestration

7. Through secret deliberate orchestration by benevolent people

8. Through secret deliberate orchestration by malevolent people.

Those are eight different ways (and there are many more) something can happen or come to be.

The reason those called "conspiracists keep emphasizing only one is because they have psychological issues regarding broken trust (usually in childhood).

It is true that conspiracies exist, the error is in over-emphasising conspiracies as an explanation for events, symbols, disasters, history, politics, economy, society.

Cognitive bias experienced by conspiracists leads them down pathways of completely worthless information while thinking they are privy to arcane mysteries. "I can see what nobody else can see" they think.

The life lesson yet to be learned is to be able to discern between real and unreal and thereby gain more competence in living life. One then no longer wastes time compiling write-ups based on a number of false premises (such as the one in the title of this thread), but permits more and more truth and light into ones life.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Everything is fine....er...yeah.



Cognitive bias experienced by conspiracists leads them down pathways of completely worthless information while thinking they are privy to arcane mysteries. "I can see what nobody else can see" they think.




At what point does the evidence completely overwhelm the bias?

Have you ever discovered something?

I actually can see what I believe to be unseen by 99.99% of people. I won't say ''nobody'' because I am not seeing some natural phenomenon that ''nobody'' else sees. I am observing the machinations of some elite group of very powerful people, and there is a very predictable pattern to it. I don't have evidential hunches. I have scientific data points that fit into a repeating framework.

Yet still I do not think ''they'' are angry with me. I think the evidence I am seeing is meant to be seen.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Everything is fine....er...yeah.


When a conspiracist is thoroughly and completely debunked from every possible angle, the last weak resort is to say

"Hm...yeah right...like everything is just fine.. Nothing to see here, move on folks
"

...as if the only way events can be caused is by evil conspiracies. These are ways events can happen:

1. Through a Cause: One thing sets another thing in motion

2. Through positive attempts that have negative effects.

3. Through negative attempts that have positive effects.

4. Through multiple causes

5. Randomly (S*ht Happens)

6. Through deliberate orchestration

7. Through secret deliberate orchestration by benevolent people

8. Through secret deliberate orchestration by malevolent people.

Those are eight different ways (and there are many more) something can happen or come to be.

The reason those called "conspiracists keep emphasizing only one is because they have psychological issues regarding broken trust (usually in childhood).

It is true that conspiracies exist, the error is in over-emphasising conspiracies as an explanation for events, symbols, disasters, history, politics, economy, society.

Cognitive bias experienced by conspiracists leads them down pathways of completely worthless information while thinking they are privy to arcane mysteries. "I can see what nobody else can see" they think.

The life lesson yet to be learned is to be able to discern between real and unreal and thereby gain more competence in living life. One then no longer wastes time compiling write-ups based on a number of false premises (such as the one in the title of this thread), but permits more and more truth and light into ones life.



Fast and Furious was operated by what organization?

The CIA or Captain Crunch?

Was the war on Iraq,afghanistan, and the "hit" on Libya ratified by congress? Did they attack us? Or was it saudi's?
Was MKULTRA real or fake?
Was operation hummingbird real or fake?
Was operation snowcone real or fake?
Did Hillary clinton apologise to people in central america for infecting them with STDs or not?
Did Bayer sell infected IVs with HIV in it? True or false?

edit on 16-8-2011 by John_Rodger_Cornman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Theosophical

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Cognitive bias experienced by conspiracists leads them down pathways of completely worthless information while thinking they are privy to arcane mysteries. "I can see what nobody else can see" they think.


At what point does the evidence completely overwhelm the bias?


When it can be clearly demonstrated as claimed to sane, unbiased third parties.


Originally posted by Theosophical
Have you ever discovered something?

I actually can see what I believe to be unseen by 99.99% of people. I won't say ''nobody'' because I am not seeing some natural phenomenon that ''nobody'' else sees. I am observing the machinations of some elite group of very powerful people, and there is a very predictable pattern to it. I don't have evidential hunches. I have scientific data points that fit into a repeating framework.


Then your "evidential hunches" should prove convincing to a cross-section of disinterested third parties who're of sound mind. If not, your "evidential hunches" are an example of a bias that you don't recognise in yourself but others do.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Theosophical
At what point does the evidence completely overwhelm the bias?


What Fitzgibbon said.



Have you ever discovered something?


Yes. Discovering truth has been a matter of deep examination of a subject from fairly neutral eyes.



I actually can see what I believe to be unseen by 99.99% of people.


Many think they can...



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 


I did not deny conspiracies exist in my last post. If you look at point #8 you will see that conspiracies are one (of many) ways things happen.

So you type "real conspiracies" into Google and up come a handful actual conspiracies or attempted conspiracies as if to say "conspiracies exist!"...but nobody is denying that conspiracies exist.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Theosophical
Yet still I do not think ''they'' are angry with me. I think the evidence I am seeing is meant to be seen.


There is no "they".

And that statement is not coming from a Skeptic or Ignoramus. Its coming from someone who has studied conspiracy-literature since 20 years and this website since 10 years.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Theosophical
Yet still I do not think ''they'' are angry with me. I think the evidence I am seeing is meant to be seen.


There is no "they".

And that statement is not coming from a Skeptic or Ignoramus. Its coming from someone who has studied conspiracy-literature since 20 years and this website since 10 years.


This is oddly starting to sound like a mason that gets angry at people researching his beliefs.

And how can one say there is no ''they''?
What does that even mean?

People are actively conspiring, together, synchronized, doing it one more time. It's ''them''. That is who ''they'' is.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon


When it can be clearly demonstrated as claimed to sane, unbiased third parties.



Then listen to me.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by Theosophical
This is oddly starting to sound like a mason that gets angry at people researching his beliefs.


"There is no they" can be spoken angrily, with a sense of humour, with heart and compassion, with arrogance, with pity, with enthusiasm...there is no automatic emotion attached to the statement.

Perhaps "There is no they, damn it!" would imply the emotion of anger.

You could of course have the "hunch" that I am angry, just like you have this "hunch" about "them". But knowing that I am in no way angry while writing, but rather neutral, I can see that your "hunches" may not come from Intuition but from projection (imagination) instead.



And how can one say there is no ''they''? What does that even mean?



Read this site. More than 1 Million posts in which a person is referring to some vague concept of "them" and "the powers that be" but many seemingly meaning something or someone different by the term.

Life experience tells us that consistent vagueness over longer periods of time is an indicator that a body of information is not actually valid but mythological.




People are actively conspiring, together, synchronized, doing it one more time. It's ''them''. That is who ''they'' is.



Sure.

Lets take Freemasonry as an example of Millions of claims of conspiracy. Knowing Freemasonry inside out I realize that Freemasonry is fairly benevolent, sometimes boring, sometimes interesting. And yet, you`ll see Millions of posts here insist that Freemasonry or parts of it are nefarious.

I could cite the same of about four other organizations I am familiar with from personal experience of which people believe the same.

In short: What you believe or what "hunches" you have are completely meaningless in light of reality.

If you like to see yourself as someone on path of light and truth, the first thing you`ll want to do is determine what is real and what is not.

I am not saying that I know more about truth than you because you will be better versed than me in many other subjects. But I do know what I experienced first hand and love and at location and that always trumps rumour, hearsay and fear-literature.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Theosophical
This is oddly starting to sound like a mason that gets angry at people researching his beliefs.


"There is no they" can be spoken angrily, with a sense of humour, with heart and compassion, with arrogance, with pity, with enthusiasm...there is no automatic emotion attached to the statement.

Perhaps "There is no they, damn it!" would imply the emotion of anger.

You could of course have the "hunch" that I am angry, just like you have this "hunch" about "them". But knowing that I am in no way angry while writing, but rather neutral, I can see that your "hunches" may not come from Intuition but from projection (imagination) instead.



And how can one say there is no ''they''? What does that even mean?



Read this site. More than 1 Million posts in which a person is referring to some vague concept of "them" and "the powers that be" but many seemingly meaning something or someone different by the term.

Life experience tells us that consistent vagueness over longer periods of time is an indicator that a body of information is not actually valid but mythological.




People are actively conspiring, together, synchronized, doing it one more time. It's ''them''. That is who ''they'' is.



Sure.

Lets take Freemasonry as an example of Millions of claims of conspiracy. Knowing Freemasonry inside out I realize that Freemasonry is fairly benevolent, sometimes boring, sometimes interesting. And yet, you`ll see Millions of posts here insist that Freemasonry or parts of it are nefarious.

I could cite the same of about four other organizations I am familiar with from personal experience of which people believe the same.

In short: What you believe or what "hunches" you have are completely meaningless in light of reality.

If you like to see yourself as someone on path of light and truth, the first thing you`ll want to do is determine what is real and what is not.

I am not saying that I know more about truth than you because you will be better versed than me in many other subjects. But I do know what I experienced first hand and love and at location and that always trumps rumour, hearsay and fear-literature.


No one here is saying freemasonry is evil. Who's saying that?



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
No one here is saying freemasonry is evil. Who's saying that?




3145+ Threads are saying that! Didnt count the posts!

Freemasonry was taken as an example of conspiracy-theories of which there are thousands in this Forum alone.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I tend to hold onto the more romantic notion that "operative" Masons were our earliest brethren and preceded all other orders...


I am not sure if anyone will definitely know the answer but you are close in your assessment. The Regius Poem predates the Templars by 200 years and makes reference to Masonry well before the formation of the order.


And yet how many of our traditions are based on operative masonry, and the values and issues of trade guilds?
Vs
Lambskin - Sheep Skin
Tyler w/ drawn sword
Organization of "equel brothers" vs more formal hiearchy found in almost all trade guilds.
cabletow, cowon and many other words...as pointed out in John J. Robinson's book.

I dunno I think Masonry as we know likely has more then one great grandfather, perhaps more then one group found a common cause and blended their symbols and traditions.....however there certainly is alot of connections to Templar myth and legend, when i first started to study our history I tended to lean toward trade guild theories, and Rosicrucians....the more i read and study the more the Templar legends make more sense to me coming from a ritual/language/values stand point. Our traditions and rituals just plain make more sense seen through a monastic order's values, then that of a trade guilds values. Our tenants just more line up with the Benadictine rules as an ancestor then those of a trade guild. .....but that is just my own opinion, and I have never found anything conclusive. I just see more smoke there historically and in the old charges.

Course then again there are the Sumerian Foundation cones..
edit on 17/8/2011 by ForkandSpoon because: Grammer



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