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Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

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posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 





You are a network hacker are you?


No. I am a Folklore Hacker, my friend...






posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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Me:



Ok, thread.
I'm back for my shift. And I brought my stirring stick.
How did this thread get this far with no one taking you all to task over Tubal Cain?

I know, I can hear it now, 'Ah, Frater210, why did you have to bring that up'?

Well, because if you guys can squeeze out of this one then you will have handled every kind of crap 'Anti-Masons' can throw at you on one of these threads and I will have been proud to have participated in the last thread of this kind on ATS. (Doubtful, I know
)

So what about it Freemasons? How do you explain how Tubal Cain got into your Freemasonry. And don't give us any of that Vulcan crap.


We want the esoteric explanation. Thanks, Guys.






OP:


Wikipedia says tubal-cain was never a freemason.



Me:
Nay.

Wikipedia does not say that...

en.wikipedia.org...

WikiPedia is not going to help anyone here on Tubal Cain.




edit on 10-8-2011 by Frater210 because: My God, HTML



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by Frater210
 


Impossible.Lies.


Wikipedia is the definitive source.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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While we are waiting on that I wanted to clear up the Baphomet thing...




Baphomet, as he is seen in this drawing, was drawn by Eliphas Levi (Alphonse Louis Constant) as an illustration for his, Dogmas and Rituals of High Magick in 1854.




That is the first time that Baphomet was represented in this way.

Now consider Pike and later Taxil

Taxil Hoax:


Taxil happened in 1886.

See how all of these guys liked to dress up in costumes and play this creepy game? And how they cannibalized one another's material?

It is because this is how they kept one another entertained; and it was very fashionable.




posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Frater210
How do you explain how Tubal Cain got into your Freemasonry.

And don't give us any of that Vulcan crap.


We want the esoteric explanation.
Which one?


I'm partial to this one, personally:

Before Noah’s flood there was a man called Lamedh, as it is written in the Bible, in the fourth Chapter of Genesis; and this Lamedh had two wives, the one named Ada and the other named Zilla by his first wife Ada, he got two sons, the one Jubal, and the other Jabal: and by the other wife he got a son and a daughter. And these four children founded the beginning of all the sciences in the world. The elder son Jabal, founded the science geometry, and he carried flocks of sheep and lambs into the fields, and first built houses of stone and wood, as it is noted in the chapter above named. And his brother Jubal founded the science of music and songs of the tongue, the harp and organ. And the third brothers Tubal Cain, founded smith-craft , of gold, silver, copper, iron, and steel, and the daughter founded the art of weaving. And these children knew well that God would take vengeance for sin, either by fire or water, wherefore they wrote the sciences that they lead found, on two pillars that they might be found after Noah’s flood. The one pillar was marble, for that would not burn with fire, and the other was clepped laterns and would not drown in no water.
source



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Frater210
How do you explain how Tubal Cain got into your Freemasonry.

And don't give us any of that Vulcan crap.


We want the esoteric explanation.
Which one?


I'm partial to this one, personally:

Before Noah’s flood there was a man called Lamedh, as it is written in the Bible, in the fourth Chapter of Genesis; and this Lamedh had two wives, the one named Ada and the other named Zilla by his first wife Ada, he got two sons, the one Jubal, and the other Jabal: and by the other wife he got a son and a daughter. And these four children founded the beginning of all the sciences in the world. The elder son Jabal, founded the science geometry, and he carried flocks of sheep and lambs into the fields, and first built houses of stone and wood, as it is noted in the chapter above named. And his brother Jubal founded the science of music and songs of the tongue, the harp and organ. And the third brothers Tubal Cain, founded smith-craft , of gold, silver, copper, iron, and steel, and the daughter founded the art of weaving. And these children knew well that God would take vengeance for sin, either by fire or water, wherefore they wrote the sciences that they lead found, on two pillars that they might be found after Noah’s flood. The one pillar was marble, for that would not burn with fire, and the other was clepped laterns and would not drown in no water.
source


Did this happen during the during the beginning of the bronze age?



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


That is one bad ass re-telling that I have never had the chance to see till now. I have it bookmarked; it's my fave now, too.

I had never heard the Pillars part. Thanks, JN, that made my brain go, 'Yum'.

So Lamech's family had all sorts of trouble with God. He was the seventh son of Cain, wasn't he?


Dude, nice link. Reading.

Suggestion: Don't mess with, JN.
edit on 10-8-2011 by Frater210 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Frater210
So Lamech's family had all sorts of trouble with God. He was the seventh son of Cain, wasn't he?
Fifth from Cain, by my count. Which would make him sixth from Adam.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Yeah, I got that.

This has been a Grand learning experience for me.

Just read it.

Who is that guy? (The Writer) He is fabulous. Probably the best of the best from some research lodge.

This whole pot stirring thing is working against me, JN. There is such a place in my heart for all of this stuff and you dorks are re-stimulating it. Thanks, Fellas.

I am starting to feel like the prodigal son.

OK, Tubal. Looks like he was 6th. Cain's family was in trouble unto the 7th so what is up with that?

Why would Freemasonry choose such a controversial, although appropriate character form the Bible?

I dunno. But after reading what JN linked I realize that it is harmless.

How can I put this in to words? If there were a problem with Tubal then the paper JN linked would leak it all over the place (for a guy like me)


But it does not. The paper amounts to a fine piece of scholarly writing and seems to carry the tone of the standard Freemasonic 'admonishment'

Tubal Cain just makes sense for Freemasonry and this thread has got me all interested and fascinated all over again.




A long time after the generation of Hypsoaranios. the inventors of hunting and fishing, Agreas and Alieas, were born: after whom the people were called hunters and fishers, and from whom sprang two brothers, when discovered iron, and the manner of working it. one of these two, called Chrysor, was skilled in eloquence, and composed verses and prophecies.

He was the .same with Hephaistos, and invented fishing-hooks, bait for taking fishes cordage and rafts, and was the first of all mankind who had navigated. He was therefore worshiped as a god after his death, and was called Diamichios.



That's actually my favorite quote from the piece right there.

I bet the Cain and Tubal Cain symbolism runs to the deepest bits of our past. Maybe I'll stop diggin' and save the surprise for later.

Otherwise, I am off the Tubal thing as well. No point in going on any further about this. Outta my league, Thanks again, JN





Boy that was fun. Nothin like gettin the head re arranged
edit on 10-8-2011 by Frater210 because:






Hey are you interested in the whole Templars and Assassins hanging out in the Holy Land and exchanging notes thing?
edit on 10-8-2011 by Frater210 because: ?



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 





Did this happen during the during the beginning of the bronze age?


Impossible to say but I would think it was at least 6-800 years before the advent of the Bronze Age.


edit on 10-8-2011 by Frater210 because: urgh



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by Frater210
Hey are you interested in the whole Templars and Assassins hanging out in the Holy Land and exchanging notes thing?
Somewhat. Most of what I know about Hassan i Sabbah I learned from Arkon Daraul's History of Secret Societies, which I'll admit, I haven't read in more than 20 years at this point.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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But after reading what JN linked I realize that it is harmless.


I take that back.

That's not true.

Lack of knowledge is famously dangerous. There is probably a key deep in that story that would improve everyone's lives if we could just get to it.

That is the only reason that I wish all of the knowledge was Open Sourced. We could use it right now.

Nuff said.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Frater210
That is the only reason that I wish all of the knowledge was Open Sourced. We could use it right now.
The knowledge is out there and readily available to any who seek it. The problem is that most people are either too lazy or don't have the time to make such pursuits. (That coupled with the fact that not EVERYTHING is on Google. Yet.
)



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 





Somewhat. Most of what I know about Hassan i Sabbah I learned from Arkon Daraul's History of Secret Societies, which I'll admit, I haven't read in more than 20 years at this point.


I got to that one in my Sophomore year of High School. We must have all started there. Actually I had finished The Illuminatus Trilogy before I got to Daraul.

Have been fascinated by the Assassins ever since.

So once upon a time I was a sort of cousin of yours from the desert. We prefer Tents to your Lodges but we are cousins nevertheless.


That being said, may I offer you this link. If I could get you the actual book I would but, well, cyberspace and all...

en.wikipedia.org...

If you can stand the O.T.O stuff that you will run into in this book then I think you will really dig it.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


If it is I can't find it. The Tubal thing is really elusive. It makes me go in tiny circles and I end up just wanting to meet the guy somehow.


I know that's silly.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Frater210
So Lamech's family had all sorts of trouble with God. He was the seventh son of Cain, wasn't he?
Fifth from Cain, by my count. Which would make him sixth from Adam.


How are lodges organized within a town?

Do you have regions of influence?



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Frater210
I got to that one in my Sophomore year of High School. We must have all started there. Actually I had finished The Illuminatus Trilogy before I got to Daraul.
Sure. For me it was Illuminatus Trilogy, then Holy Blood, Holy Grail, and then the whole bibliography from Steve Jackson Games original Illuminati game (not INWO, which was much later…) So Daraul, Nesta Webster and Edith Starr Miller (both bad sources, it turns out), Robinson, etc… And yeah, I probably started around 1988 or 89 into this line of reading, but didn't become a Mason until much later.


That being said, may I offer you this link. If I could get you the actual book I would but, well, cyberspace and all...

en.wikipedia.org...

If you can stand the O.T.O stuff that you will run into in this book then I think you will really dig it.
Kindle edition was ten bucks. Ordered and downloaded.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
How are lodges organized within a town?

Do you have regions of influence?
Not so much. I live in a big city, and there are actually almost 50 lodges in my county alone, at least four of which meet in the same building on different nights of the week. You join the group that seems like you'd fit best with. Hopefully you figure that out up front, but you can always petition to join another lodge and demit from your mother lodge if you find a better group elsewhere.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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I should not have posted in this thread at all.

I apologise, and withdraw.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


I just wanted to make it clear (Open Source) where I am coming from with Tubal, Freemasons and Witchcraft.

It is my own concoction I made from the web. I want to let everyone know right away that it is me having fun. There is no historical connection. I am able to slap the two together because of this...

This goes to the disambiguation page. Choose, Robert Cochrane, Witch
en.wikipedia.org...(witch)


Occultism has much to do with fashion and I try to stay ahead of the curve. I am no longer any type of practitioner; I am more interested in the Anthro, Socio and Psycho aspects.
You may be interested to know that there is 'another' witchcraft that is blowing up right now and it has nothing to do with Wicca.

For all of those that have an interest in this type of material; here is the current fashion trend. For those that dig Spare you are really gonna dig this...

www.threehandspress.com...

www.fieldsbooks.com...

www.fieldsbooks.com...

So, it's me having fun. Which is the whole point of Summertime.

Thanks, JN.


edit on 10-8-2011 by Frater210 because: There



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