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Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

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posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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I'm going to make another reply about my opinion of Freemasonry here.

I will be honest. My own ideal scenario, would be one in which Freemasonry did not exist. However, unfortunately it does, and there is nothing I can do about that.

I've read about Albert Pike. From that, and various other minor intersections I've had with Masonry in the course of my own wanderings, I've come to a number of conclusions.

a] That Freemasonry *is* Luciferian.

b] That they are part of a somewhat larger coalition of secret societies that are in the process of trying to murder 95% of the currently existing human race, and by extension, ultimately all carbon based life on this planet.

c] That said plan is ultimately demonic in origin, and that they and everyone else working with them, are therefore pawns, whether or not they are aware of this.

Individual Masons are free to attempt to deny the above charges as much as they like; it won't matter. This is for two reasons.

a] Nobody in this thread, on this forum, or in any position to speak publically, will be a sufficiently high level Mason as to be capable of knowing the real truth, themselves.

b] Even if, hypothetically speaking, some of you *were* aware of the validity of the above, there is no way that you would ever publically admit it.

If Freemasonry cares about people ceasing to believe that they are evil, then they can improve their image in one very simple way; become transparent. Throw the doors open, and let us learn everything there is to, about what you do, and what you believe.

I'm confident, however, that you will not do that; and I'm equally confident that the reason why, is because the above charges are correct.




posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 


Yes, every State had a Grand Lodge authority. There is no central National Authority, although I believe each Grand Lodge derives its jurisdiction from the Grand Lodge of England, but I could be mistaken. Others will have a more solid answer on that.

It is indeed very similar to our Democratic government. In fact, most would assume our style of democracy was directly derived from the practice of Freemasonry. In fact, most meeting agenda's, corporate boards, and other large entities are derivations of the organization that Freemasonry has practiced for a very long time. It is an organization structure that works very well, and is often emulated.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


So, we are back to the either "we don't know" or "we would never admit" argument?

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are still entirely wrong.

Masonry is not made up of any smaller secret societies. It is only one fraternity. It is most certainly not Luciferian in nature. And, there is no secret elite tier. I have friends and acquantences in the most elite realms of Freemasonry, and they are just regular folks.

Also, there is a logical flaw in that line of thinking. If there were some super secret, and super small group of Masons that conspired on their own, it would not be representative of Masonry as a whole. If 6 members of a University conspire to dress up and rob a bank, it is not representative of the University, it is just the typical fringe element, and they are quickly dealt with and suspended. The same goes for Masonry. If some small fringe element developed and were ever found out, they would be excluded. Those 6 bankrobbers would not have the ability to influence or steer the whole of the University, and neither would 6 fringe people in Masonry be able to steer or influence the whole fraternity.

The whole of Masonry is defined by the accepted Policy, Procedure, and Morals that we stand for, and it is illustrated by the vast majority of Masons. Occasionally we have the statistical anomaly, and we deal with it, we are not defined by it.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by habiff
reply to post by AM47240
 

After following this thread I find I am compelled to add my two cents. I have been a mason for 12 years, after being raised to the third degree I became a 32 degree Scottish Rite mason. My motivation to become a mason was the admirable qualities I saw in a few men that I was associated with, honesty, humility, selflessness, etc and the way they led their lives and influenced those around them, myself included. I have been taught that the goal of masonry is to "make good men better". The only riches or power I have received are those of self improvement through studying masonic principals and being associated with men of the same mind. Never once have I heard any religious talk by any member in or out of the lodge or evidence of any type of "conspiracy". However like any organization I have come across a few people that joined because they thought they they might get some benefit but they are very transparent and recognized as such. Anyone blatantly using his masonic membership for personal gain with another mason would elicit the opposite reaction in almost every mason I know. As to not being high enough up to be aware of any consperacy if that was the case then there would be very very few people involved and I don't see how they could have much effect on anything. This is my experience with masonry and if anyone is considering joining the fraternity I would encourage you to do so.


Yeah good to know.

I just want to know more about them I have been told where evil,colluding, and dangerous.
Wouldn't you want to know more about an group rather than paint them with a broad brush?
I want to have a better understanding of this group rather than bash/smear/fud them.
I mean we are on a conspiracy forum and people think groups of people are conspiring against them.
masons are a group of people. But they are not conspiring against people.

ignorant people smear/boredom bash(troll like I used to do) or parrot disinfo/lies instead of be educated in the group they are attacking. Same with Islam and other beliefs.
You got good people and then you have bad people. That's humanity in a nutshell.
I believe what I believe and you what you believe so whats the fuss about? This is silly.
I don't waste energy on wasted timed. At least I am wasting time on stuff I care about.

Now bilderberg,crf,TLC,globalists, banksters on the over hand.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by petrus4
If Freemasonry cares about people ceasing to believe that they are evil, then they can improve their image in one very simple way; become transparent. Throw the doors open, and let us learn everything there is to, about what you do, and what you believe.


I am fairly certain that you would not be interested in learning any of Masonry's lessons because they do not deal with Lucifer or demons or depopulation scenarios. You know, because all that stuff is so believable to start with.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Yeah it looks like congress,HoR or a modern corporate board meeting. Whoa.

So they stole/copied all your infrastructure ideas.Fascinating.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by petrus4
 


So, we are back to the either "we don't know" or "we would never admit" argument?

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are still entirely wrong.


Then why the secrecy?

Understand; nothing you tell us is verifiable, one way or the other. You might tell me that the Masons are the most wonderful group of people in the world, and I have no choice whatsoever but to take your word for it.

So I have no reason to believe you, because I have no means of independently determining whether or not you are, in fact, telling me the truth. If nothing else, that alone does not inspire trust.
edit on 10-8-2011 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


Once again, I ask...."what secrecy?"

We have less secrets than any fraternity or corporation in the country! I know much less about my buddy's "Omega Psi Phi" fraternity than people know about Masonry. I know much, much, much less about the inner dealings of PepsiCo and Disney than people know about Masonry.

99.9% of our stuff is readily available for the asking, and the other 0.1% is available in the Duncan's Ritual books.

Here is a GREAT LINK that explains a bunch of astronomy that was probably considered secret a few thousand years ago, but it is common knowledge now, and it is apparent in our Degree work, and it is provided from a DC Masonic website.

Here is the Grand Lodge of Florida Website that tells as much as you will ever want to know about Masonry.

Now, the problem is, if what you really want to know is the super secret satanic ritual stuff, then you will never find it, because it doesn't exist. I can't disprove something that isn't there to disprove. That argument is entirely moot.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


Hey I don't believe in what they believe. But most of them on this thread seem pretty cool and straight forward so I like them.

I don't like hating/strife against people I don't know. Love your brother as you would love yourself.


edit on 10-8-2011 by John_Rodger_Cornman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
I try not to pretend I know more than I know(except in game design I am an expert in how a video game should be made).That's a childish waste of energy.
...

I am currently programming( trying )a video game from 1972 pong.
So are you using true vector-based motion for the ball, or just keeping separate deltaX and deltaY variables and flipping the sign of one on bounce? Any coefficient of friction on the paddles that would change the momentum of the ball based on the velocity of the paddle at time of collision? What collision detection algorithm are you using? Is the angle of the bounce off of the paddle changed at all by where on the surface of the paddle the ball strikes? (also thinking edges and corners here…)

Please, share with us your expertise since we've been kind enough to share ours.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
I don't like hating/strife against people I don't know. Love your brother as you would love yourself.


edit on 10-8-2011 by John_Rodger_Cornman because: (no reason given)


Ok, look. I made very clear in my first post, that the group simply aren't one that I want to cross paths with. That's all.

I shouldn't have made the comment that I'd prefer it if the group didn't exist; but then again, I'm not referring to any specific *individuals* when I say that, either. I'm not wishing anything bad on them; if Freemasonry as a group didn't exist, all it would mean is that the individuals within said group would be doing something else. A lot of people probably wish that Scientology as a group or an ideology didn't exist, too; but that doesn't mean they hate the individual people involved in the group, at all. They often try and help said people *leave* the group.

Same thing here. So I'm not a hater.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


To a certain extent I agree. I wish many organized religions didn't exist. I wish corporations had some type of limit to their size and influence (monopoly laws?), I wish the government hadn't grown so far out of proportion, and I wish fences and roadways didn't criss-cross the land.

But, of all the evil things in the world, Masonry is really one of the good guys. Masonry does absolutely no harm, and only seeks to help others, by their own free will and accord.. We are not pushing our agenda on anyone.

The only way you could be certain for yourself, would be to try it out for yourself, but all of the crazy negativity has frightened some people away.

Another idea is to really ignore the internet for a week or so, and go and inquire about Masonry in real life. I bet you will be hard-pressed to find a negative word about Masonry in real life. This conspiracy stuff is really confined to a few books and the internet.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
I try not to pretend I know more than I know(except in game design I am an expert in how a video game should be made).That's a childish waste of energy.
...

I am currently programming( trying )a video game from 1972 pong.
So are you using true vector-based motion for the ball, or just keeping separate deltaX and deltaY variables and flipping the sign of one on bounce? Any coefficient of friction on the paddles that would change the momentum of the ball based on the velocity of the paddle at time of collision? What collision detection algorithm are you using? Is the angle of the bounce off of the paddle changed at all by where on the surface of the paddle the ball strikes? (also thinking edges and corners here…)

Please, share with us your expertise since we've been kind enough to share ours.


Yeah X,Y coordinate system is pretty confusing. I don't know where to start on the physics.

I created class that has a textured quad(Rect rc) up(for the sprite) and a quad for the bounding box for the sprite.

Moving the sprites around on the screen is a bit of trail and error at this point. Do I load the sprite and move it (create a function that updates the rc xy every few clockticks) then SDL_Delay(240); to wait a frame (1/24 sec) then redraw the sprite with updated coords? Or do I use SDL's ticks to use with speed const,acceleration.
Maybe have a traction constant for testing the paddle against the ball. I know they are set ways to do this so I'll have to pick a designers brain at gamedev.org on how to do proper/accurate collision detection.

I don't know.I have to find the right question to get the results I want. Your method would probably be a better route. I want to learn this on my own. I am currently reading up on SDL_image,SDL_mixer.

They are a lot easier to grasp then say directX or OpenGL. Yeah opengl is difficult and time consuming to understand. A lot more powerful from what I read.

Good thing programming has little to do with good game design. Or I would be out of a job.




posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by petrus4
I'm going to make another reply about my opinion of Freemasonry here.

I will be honest. My own ideal scenario, would be one in which Freemasonry did not exist. However, unfortunately it does, and there is nothing I can do about that.

I've read about Albert Pike.


As opposed to reading Albert Pike. Sounds like you're inclined to believe the cherry-picked/outright lie version of Pike that is spoon-fed to those so inclined. Pray continue


Originally posted by petrus4
From that, and various other minor intersections I've had with Masonry in the course of my own wanderings, I've come to a number of conclusions.


From that it would seem you're inclined to believe the worst based on scanty 'evidence'


Originally posted by petrus4
a] That Freemasonry *is* Luciferian.


Which is really tough to reconcile when you have a Mason whose faith doesn't include Lucifer/Satan/the Devil. How do you reconcile that disconnect?


Originally posted by petrus4
b] That they are part of a somewhat larger coalition of secret societies that are in the process of trying to murder 95% of the currently existing human race, and by extension, ultimately all carbon based life on this planet.


Based on.......what precisely (aside from personal inclination)?


Originally posted by petrus4
c] That said plan is ultimately demonic in origin, and that they and everyone else working with them, are therefore pawns, whether or not they are aware of this.


Address a) and c) goes down the crapper.


Originally posted by petrus4
Individual Masons are free to attempt to deny the above charges as much as they like; it won't matter. This is for two reasons.

a] Nobody in this thread, on this forum, or in any position to speak publically, will be a sufficiently high level Mason as to be capable of knowing the real truth, themselves.

b] Even if, hypothetically speaking, some of you *were* aware of the validity of the above, there is no way that you would ever publically admit it.


Hello Catch-22. You seem to be popping up a bit too regularly


Originally posted by petrus4
If Freemasonry cares about people ceasing to believe that they are evil, then they can improve their image in one very simple way; become transparent.


People will believe what they want to believe no matter how much evidence to the contrary they're given. People can be perverse that way. If you're inclined to see evil everywhere about you, how much time am I to invest disabusing you of that notion?


Originally posted by petrus4
Throw the doors open, and let us learn everything there is to, about what you do, and what you believe.


Gentlemen, the line to join and expose all the nefarious Masonic hidden deeds forms to the right. I've never quite understood how on the one hand, concerned Internet InvestiGooglers© can feign deep personal concern about the nefarious activities that're taking place hither and nigh under the aegis of worldwide Masonry yet their desire to actively prove this nefarious activity doesn't extend to actually accumulating irrefutable first-hand evidence.

Why is that I wonder?


Originally posted by petrus4
I'm confident, however, that you will not do that; and I'm equally confident that the reason why, is because the above charges are correct.


It falls to you to prove not Masons to disprove.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by petrus4
Understand; nothing you tell us is verifiable, one way or the other.


Sure it is. Join. Gather your irrefutable, believable first-hand experience and then call up Geraldo. Problem solved!?


Originally posted by petrus4
You might tell me that the Masons are the most wonderful group of people in the world, and I have no choice whatsoever but to take your word for it.


Masons wouldn't say that although anti-Masons spout that almost like clockwork


Originally posted by petrus4
So I have no reason to believe you, because I have no means of independently determining whether or not you are, in fact, telling me the truth. If nothing else, that alone does not inspire trust.


Like I said, put on your big boy pants, join and expose the viper's nest you're sure you'll find. What's stopping you? Your immortal soul's safe if that's what's holding you back. The Almighty'd know your intentions were pure and give you a pass once the day of reckoning comes.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
I can't disprove something that isn't there to disprove. That argument is entirely moot.


Aye. There's the rub. Online's the land of the Napoleonic Code. It falls to Masons to disprove every wackadoodle assertion someone feels inclined to fling like so much feces. Logic and common sense get checked at the door.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

Whats the problem? Its not like your disrespecting them or anything.


Probably because they are always accused of being evil,manipulating monsters who are trying to take over the world and enslave everyone....

Id be rather grumpy if I was sincerely accused of that once a week as well.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by petrus4
 


To a certain extent I agree. I wish many organized religions didn't exist. I wish corporations had some type of limit to their size and influence (monopoly laws?), I wish the government hadn't grown so far out of proportion, and I wish fences and roadways didn't criss-cross the land.

But, of all the evil things in the world, Masonry is really one of the good guys. Masonry does absolutely no harm, and only seeks to help others, by their own free will and accord.. We are not pushing our agenda on anyone.

The only way you could be certain for yourself, would be to try it out for yourself, but all of the crazy negativity has frightened some people away.

Another idea is to really ignore the internet for a week or so, and go and inquire about Masonry in real life. I bet you will be hard-pressed to find a negative word about Masonry in real life. This conspiracy stuff is really confined to a few books and the internet.


When the time come you all will be the only real government we will have. You are just normal people not globalist elites.

Who do I want governing my community? Normal people or Marxist Globalists.

If a globalist sends a shill to try an infiltrate your group you would be prepared for it. So no puppet dictators and mouthpeices.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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Ok, thread. I'm back for my shift. And I brought my stirring stick.

How did this thread get this far with no one taking you all to task over Tubal Cain?

I know, I can hear it now, 'Ah, Frater210, why did you have to bring that up'?

Well, because if you guys can squeeze out of this one then you will have handled every kind of crap 'Anti-Masons' can throw at you on one of these threads and I will have been proud to have participated in the last thread of this kind on ATS. (Doubtful, I know
)

So what about it Freemasons?

How do you explain how Tubal Cain got into your Freemasonry.

And don't give us any of that Vulcan crap.


We want the esoteric explanation.

Thanks, Guys.



And why doesn't this thread have more flags? Support the OP.
edit on 10-8-2011 by Frater210 because: Flag it



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by Frater210
Ok, thread. I'm back for my shift. And I brought my stirring stick.

How did this thread get this far with no one taking you all to task over Tubal Cain?

I know, I can hear it now, 'Ah, Frater210, why did you have to bring that up'?

Well, because if you guys can squeeze out of this one then you will have handled every kind of crap 'Anti-Masons' can throw at you on one of these threads and I will have been proud to have participated in the last thread of this kind on ATS. (Doubtful, I know
)

So what about it Freemasons?

How do you explain how Tubal Cain got into your Freemasonry.

And don't give us any of that Vulcan crap.


We want the esoteric explanation.

Thanks, Guys.



And why doesn't this thread have more flags? Support the OP.
edit on 10-8-2011 by Frater210 because: Flag it


Wikipedia says tubal-cain was never a freemason.

You are a network hacker are you?

AA



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