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Why do masons get angry at people researching their beliefs?

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posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


You say that Satan isn't a supreme being and that he is subservient to God, but in the Bible it says that God gave Satan dominion over the earth. While I don't believe in Satan, and I'm not taking sides for or against Masons (because I know nothing about them), it seems to me that Satan could be worshiptdomunped as a deity because God gave him dominion, according to the Bible. But then, the Bible is full of misinformation, so who's to know if that's really true or not....




posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Being secretive doesn't equate to being evil. I'm saying that an organization that want to have membership should be forthcoming with information so that people know what they're about. Sometimes people who keep secrets are evil, but sometimes they aren't. How is someone supposed to know unless questions are answered with clarity, and not with riddles?



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by Frater
 


Bring the dressing while we're at it. Giggidy!

Is there any bloodline/birthright fraternities/orders? Do people confuse other orders with masons(like I have)?
edit on 10-8-2011 by John_Rodger_Cornman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Do all members have equal voting power? Are there any tiers,seniority?


In the lodge room all dues paying members of that lodge have an equal vote if the Master of the Lodge happens to call one. He could, by his authority, make unilaterial actions but this is frowned upon and most items come up for a full vote of the membership.

On the Grand Lodge level only Past Masters, current Masters, the Wardens (the next two positions beneath Master) and the Proxy (a person substituting for the top three officers) can vote for Grand Lodge officers or legislation.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Do all members have equal voting power? Are there any tiers,seniority?


In the lodge room all dues paying members of that lodge have an equal vote if the Master of the Lodge happens to call one. He could, by his authority, make unilaterial actions but this is frowned upon and most items come up for a full vote of the membership.

On the Grand Lodge level only Past Masters, current Masters, the Wardens (the next two positions beneath Master) and the Proxy (a person substituting for the top three officers) can vote for Grand Lodge officers or legislation.


Wow they have a pretty sophisticated system. What is the difference between a grand lodge and a normal lodge?



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by AM47240
You say that Satan isn't a supreme being and that he is subservient to God, but in the Bible it says that God gave Satan dominion over the earth.


They key words being 'God gave'. It was Gods authority if you follow the Biblical tracts and still makes Satan subservient. He needed God's permission to have dominion over the Earth. I also do not believe in Satan so it is somewhat irrelevant for me.


While I don't believe in Satan, and I'm not taking sides for or against Masons (because I know nothing about them), it seems to me that Satan could be worshiptdomunped as a deity...


When you become a Mason you are asked if you believe in a Supreme Being, not a diety, or a demi-god. A Supreme Being. There is a major difference.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
When you become a Mason you are asked if you believe in a Supreme Being, not a diety, or a demi-god. A Supreme Being. There is a major difference.
Indeed. I believe in Diana Ross…



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 


John Rodger Cornman said: "There are people that really do worship the enemy. (Wikkans)"

Not true. I'm assuming that when you say "the enemy", you mean Satan. Wiccans do not believe in Satan. Nor are Wiccans the enemy of true Christians. There are very few of those to be found these days, though there is no shortage of people claiming to be Christian.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Wow they have a pretty sophisticated system. What is the difference between a grand lodge and a normal lodge?


Grand Lodge = Head Office

HTH
Fitz



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by Frater
 


Bring the dressing while we're at it. Giggidy!

Is there any bloodline/birthright fraternities/orders? Do people confuse other orders with masons(like I have)?


First question? Dunno. Wouldn't surprise me though.

Second question? All the time. Most notable anytime recently is Skull and Bones.

HTH
Fitz



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


I will look into the panentheism.

As far as Jesus being a part of God-incarnate. I know Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity, but I think it is greatly watered down in the Baptists and Nazareth religions. Jesus is considered more of a literal son of God, than an extension of the Supreme Being. In one aspect, we are all extensions of that Supreme Being, and Jesus was no exception, but most Preachers and Pastors teach Jesus as a servant of God, not an appendage.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by AM47240
reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 


John Rodger Cornman said: "There are people that really do worship the enemy. (Wikkans)"

Not true. I'm assuming that when you say "the enemy", you mean Satan. Wiccans do not believe in Satan. Nor are Wiccans the enemy of true Christians. There are very few of those to be found these days, though there is no shortage of people claiming to be Christian.


Yeah they have a different definition of "Lucifer".
See this is pointless. Believe what you want to believe. I'll do the same.
I've had several wiccan friends. They where pretty cool. Not evil.

The being we know as Satan is a murdering psychopath. Wiccans don't really believe that so no harm no foul.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Wow they have a pretty sophisticated system. What is the difference between a grand lodge and a normal lodge?
All regular lodges operate under the authority of a Grand Lodge which gave them their charter. So let's say there are 1200 Masonic lodges in the state of California that answer to the Grand Lodge of California. (I'm just guessing a number here…) Once a year, representative members of those 1200 lodges all meet in one place and as a group vote on any major changes to California Freemasonry; changes to their rules or bylaws; and elect new Grand Lodge officers to preside over California Freemasonry for the upcoming year.

A regular lodge has its own bylaws and members, and they do their own voting for small, internal matters. They also, prior to the Grand Lodge meeting, read the proposed issues to be voted on at the next Grand Lodge and as a group decide how they want their lodge to vote. It's kind of a representational system.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
When you become a Mason you are asked if you believe in a Supreme Being, not a diety, or a demi-god. A Supreme Being. There is a major difference.
Indeed. I believe in Diana Ross…


What?

Is that a joke?



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by AM47240
reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 


John Rodger Cornman said: "There are people that really do worship the enemy. (Wikkans)"

Not true. I'm assuming that when you say "the enemy", you mean Satan. Wiccans do not believe in Satan. Nor are Wiccans the enemy of true Christians. There are very few of those to be found these days, though there is no shortage of people claiming to be Christian.


Yeah they have a different definition of "Lucifer".
See this is pointless. Believe what you want to believe. I'll do the same.
I've had several wiccan friends. They where pretty cool. Not evil.

The being we know as Satan is a murdering psychopath. Wiccans don't really believe that so no harm no foul.
Then why do you keep saying they worship the enemy?



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
When you become a Mason you are asked if you believe in a Supreme Being, not a diety, or a demi-god. A Supreme Being. There is a major difference.
Indeed. I believe in Diana Ross…


What?

Is that a joke?
You don't believe there was a soul singer named Diana Ross who was a member of the Supremes? Do you think she was a myth then?



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Wow they have a pretty sophisticated system. What is the difference between a grand lodge and a normal lodge?
All regular lodges operate under the authority of a Grand Lodge which gave them their charter. So let's say there are 1200 Masonic lodges in the state of California that answer to the Grand Lodge of California. (I'm just guessing a number here…) Once a year, representative members of those 1200 lodges all meet in one place and as a group vote on any major changes to California Freemasonry; changes to their rules or bylaws; and elect new Grand Lodge officers to preside over California Freemasonry for the upcoming year.

A regular lodge has its own bylaws and members, and they do their own voting for small, internal matters. They also, prior to the Grand Lodge meeting, read the proposed issues to be voted on at the next Grand Lodge and as a group decide how they want their lodge to vote. It's kind of a representational system.


Individual states have a central hub like that. Is there a national masonic convention?

So its like representative democracy. Like how our country supposed to be. Wow I made no idea they had this structured the way you say it is. That's crazy. Its like a micro-government or something.



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
When you become a Mason you are asked if you believe in a Supreme Being, not a diety, or a demi-god. A Supreme Being. There is a major difference.
Indeed. I believe in Diana Ross…


What?

Is that a joke?


Yes. More of a bad pun actually.

Diana Ross and the Supremes? Supreme Being.

Fitz



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by AM47240
reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 


John Rodger Cornman said: "There are people that really do worship the enemy. (Wikkans)"

Not true. I'm assuming that when you say "the enemy", you mean Satan. Wiccans do not believe in Satan. Nor are Wiccans the enemy of true Christians. There are very few of those to be found these days, though there is no shortage of people claiming to be Christian.


Yeah they have a different definition of "Lucifer".
See this is pointless. Believe what you want to believe. I'll do the same.
I've had several wiccan friends. They where pretty cool. Not evil.

The being we know as Satan is a murdering psychopath. Wiccans don't really believe that so no harm no foul.
Then why do you keep saying they worship the enemy?


Keep what I admitted that the entity we know as the enemy is not the same as what wiccans worship.

So where is the conflict?



posted on Aug, 10 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by AM47240
 

After following this thread I find I am compelled to add my two cents. I have been a mason for 12 years, after being raised to the third degree I became a 32 degree Scottish Rite mason. My motivation to become a mason was the admirable qualities I saw in a few men that I was associated with, honesty, humility, selflessness, etc and the way they led their lives and influenced those around them, myself included. I have been taught that the goal of masonry is to "make good men better". The only riches or power I have received are those of self improvement through studying masonic principals and being associated with men of the same mind. Never once have I heard any religious talk by any member in or out of the lodge or evidence of any type of "conspiracy". However like any organization I have come across a few people that joined because they thought they they might get some benefit but they are very transparent and recognized as such. Anyone blatantly using his masonic membership for personal gain with another mason would elicit the opposite reaction in almost every mason I know. As to not being high enough up to be aware of any consperacy if that was the case then there would be very very few people involved and I don't see how they could have much effect on anything. This is my experience with masonry and if anyone is considering joining the fraternity I would encourage you to do so.




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