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Originally posted by network dude
Originally posted by Fr3bzY
Save a baby...eat a mason
If I wasn't so attached to my signature, I would ask permission to adopt this as a new one.
You should make bumper stickers my friend.
Originally posted by Headband7
reply to post by FortAnthem
So as long as you justaccept everything a Mason says it'll be ok? Make it sound like any disagreement and you instantly get written off.
Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Originally posted by network dude
Originally posted by Fr3bzY
Save a baby...eat a mason
If I wasn't so attached to my signature, I would ask permission to adopt this as a new one.
You should make bumper stickers my friend.
If it involves a cute redhead, I'm in!
Revelation 2:19: “I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.”
Originally posted by Phenomium
Because they say they believe in Jesus, but then try to WORK their way to heaven, just like in the days of Babylon. Ephesians 2:9 says "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God".
Matthew 6:6: “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”
Considering that they do many things that counter GODS word, they are either of GOD or their father the Devil. The devil likes to do his works in the dark, this is why they don't like to be researched.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
No, Pike knew that there was no Lucifer as well. He was an educated man and knew that it was, for all intents and purposes, a typo in one translation of the Bible that became escalated and distorted by Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost. In fact, in Morals & Dogma he writes:
Originally posted by Frater210
JoshNorton:
There's never actually been a supernatural entity with that name. But if you went with the misconception that there was an entity called Lucifer which may or may not be equivalent with Satan, either way, they'd still be subservient to God, and thus not worthy of worship.
Do you think that this was lost on Albert Pike, considering the quote from M+D?Morals & Dogma, page 102
thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend.
He explicitly says "false Lucifer". He knew it was a bad translation. He also acknowledges the poets' (Dante's and Milton's) role in proliferating that legend.
Originally posted by muzzleflash
Don't ask them about Lucifer the Morning Star than.
Some of them have claimed it is not Satan or the Devil, although in modern English lexicon it is commonly referred to as the Devil or Satan. Also terminology like Luciferian is equated with Satanism in common lexicon.
However, I have heard many argue this point, and attempt to paint this "Lucifer" as the Illumination and the Light.
That's probably where all of the major problems come from.
However, there are millions of masons in various sects with possibly different interpretations of their occult practices or different points of view about this whole "Lucifer" terminology that is so highly controversial.
**Disclaimer : When I say masons told me, it was self -avowed masons members on ATS, however they were pretty well respected members so I assume they must have been masons and not fakes.
I have no access to their Libraries or their rituals to examine and observe their peculiarities so I do not know if this hearsay is true or not. However I highly suggest you investigate if you really want to know.
Some of them seem to be claiming to be Luciferians. I am inclined to believe there are grains of truth to this. I have seen many facets of this subject and it is very provocative and very very deep.
Originally posted by something wicked
I'm now starting to get a little confused. You talk about Satan as though such a being exists, but you refute that said being has also been named Lucifer. At the same time it's stated that Masonry is open to people of all faiths, some faiths wouldn't acknowledge a being called Satan - surely you can't have it both ways?
Originally posted by getreadyalready
If someone wants to identify themself as a Satanist, and also join Freemasonry, it would be possible.
I know that. And you know that. But you'd be surprised how many Christians take the story told in Paradise Lost and believe that it's part of the Bible.
Originally posted by something wicked
Hi, now you confuse me. Milton wrote a novel - Paradise Lost. I can't recall seeing anything where he said it was based on fact. How did he proliferate a legend? It's a story, no more, no less.
And if you ask many Christians today, they'll tell you that Lucifer was Satan's angelic name. But that's nowhere to be found in the Bible. It only exists in the fictions written long after.
Know then, that after Lucifer from Heav'n
(So call him, brighter once amidst the Host
Of Angels, then that Starr the Starrs among)
Fell with his flaming Legions through the Deep
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by getreadyalready
If someone wants to identify themself as a Satanist, and also join Freemasonry, it would be possible.
I completely disagree. The historical Satan was created by God and therefore can not be a Supreme Being as it is always subservient to God.
Someone could believe that Satan created the Universe but then Satan would not be the historical Satan but instead would be God.
Yes, but from that implication, having something to hide is necessarily bad. And it really isn't.
Originally posted by AM47240
I'm not saying Masons are bad, but I'm just saying they're secretive, and in my experience, people don't keep secrets unless they have something to hide.
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by getreadyalready
If someone wants to identify themself as a Satanist, and also join Freemasonry, it would be possible.
I completely disagree. The historical Satan was created by God and therefore can not be a Supreme Being as it is always subservient to God.
Someone could believe that Satan created the Universe but then Satan would not be the historical Satan but instead would be God.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by lestweforget
Actually, in my Shrine Temple, we display the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Holy Bible, and the Quran all opened simultaneously on the Altar. In my opinion, it is a sort of progression through time of the Holy Books. I don't know if all Shrine Temples display the same combination, but I always loved the Epic of Gilgamesh, and when I joined the Shrine, I was thrilled to see it honored on the Altar and not treated like some mythical fiction.
So you don't have any real exclusivity to single belief? Its seems like a club.
Are there any activities/actions that can ban you from membership?
It is a club...i.e. fraternity. It is not a religion, and there is no religious requirement other than believing in one creator. Yes, there are plenty of things that can get you excluded from membership. We conduct a criminal background check, we have a committee come to your home and interview you, and we let the membership vote, and acceptance must be unanimous. A single black ball will exclude you from membership. If someone has had bad business dealings with members, or if the committee finds something disturbing at the house during the interview, or if the background check is not clean, or if some member just happens to know and dislike you, then it is likely you will not get in.
A few things I have seen as disqualifications, one interview committee went to the house and the wife seemed a little shy, and turns out she had a black eye. On another occasion the guy was a tattoo artist, and we had one member that was dead set against admitting him.....the rest of us really liked the guy, and so the one member decided to skip a meeting and let us vote him in, within the first month of voting him in, he was arrested for drugs, and was immediately kicked back out. One guy lied about his background and it was discovered during the background check. Several folks have been honest about a felony in their past, and most are not accepted, although I have seen one or two exceptions made.
If you are a good, honest person with morals, and you believe in one, ever-living creator, then you will probably get in with no problems.
Ephesians 2:9 says "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God".
Originally posted by getreadyalready
By the same logic as yours, Jesus is also not the Supreme Being, and those that worship Jesus would not be allowed in Masonry.
In both cases, Christianity and Satanism, they still acknowledge an all-powerful Creator, but they choose to worship a lesser incarnation of that creator.
That happens to be one of my main problems with identifying myself as a Christian. I love the teachings of Christ, but I refuse to worship him, and I choose to worship an unnamed and unpersonified deity that pervades all religions, all of mankind, and all of nature.