UK'S proper name

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posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
Didn't scotland people not want to be part of England? I know it was back in the day, but don't they consider themselves independant from it?

England is just a single country, as is Scotland, so one could never be part of the other.



I know it's part of the UK, but it's not part of britian correct or no?

Sorry, I must have added my edit after you read my last post.. Scotland is part of the UK (the UK is a legal soverign nation), and also part of Britain (a big island of the coast of France, just to the right of Ireland. Britain is really a geographic description, rather than a political entity.)


Northern Ireland doesn't want to be party of england but the south has adapted the euro and is?
Wales is party of england....

As above. England, Wales, and Scotland are all "at the same level" so to speak, so one is not or could not be part of the other. think of them a bit like states in the US.


so england is a separate entity and the UK, is just the mainland, and southern ireland well you got stuck with it?


No, Britain is the mainland, UK is the mainland plus Northern Ireland, and southern Ireland is now a completely separate sovereign state/nation, actually called Eire. You are right, they have adopted the Euro.

The whole of Ireland used to be part of the UK, which used to be called "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland".

Ireland became independent(and became Eire) at the beginning of the 20th century, but a lot of people in northern Ireland(Ulster) wanted to stay British, so Northern Ireland separated and stayed part of the UK. The fights between those who wanted to stay British, and those who wanted to be part of the new independent Ireland were what all the NI "troubles" were about.


This is confusing, holy moly...


Yup, and I haven't even mentioned the British Isles(all the islands off the NW of the European mainland), or the Commonwealth, or the Dominions, or the Protectorates...



[Edited on 23/8/04 by muppet]

[Edited on 23/8/04 by muppet]

[Edited on 23/8/04 by muppet]




posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 08:36 PM
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To add :

Most of the confusion comes from the fact that we are unique in having 3 counties or nations, (England, Scotland, Wales) all forming one "Kingdom". This kingdom though is for all legal and political purposes one sovereign "state", in the normal sense of the word.

We also have some "Crown Dependancies", such as the Isle of Man, and the Channel Islands, and a few overseas territories (Bermuda, Gibraltar, plus a few nice pacific islands.) Canada, Australia and New Zealand are also Commonwealth Realms (formerly Dominions), but of course complete independent sovereign states. The Queen is legally head of state in the UK, and also in Canada, Oz and New Zealand, where she is known as the Queen of Canada or the Queen of Australia, not Queen of England.

England/English therefore, is only really used to distinguish a region of Britain, or a country in the UK, a tradition/culture, or most commonly, a football team!

Funny.. to us it's so obvious, but I guess to a foreigner.....



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 08:45 PM
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Further approximate analogies, in US terms.

England, Wales, Scotland ---> Florida, Texas, California
Northern Ireland ---> Puerto Rico
Britain ---> North America
British Isles ---> The Americas
UK ---> US
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ---> United States of America
The Monarchy ---> The Flag/Constitution
Bad teeth ----> Large bottoms




[Edited on 23/8/04 by muppet]



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 02:47 AM
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Muppet...That was a brilliant explanation ...I couldn't have put it better myself...Well done !
P.S. I'd rather have us take on board the U.S. dollar than the Euro.



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 03:12 AM
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Regardless , Monty Python RULES !!!!!

Hail Arthur , King of the Britons .

Fix the penguin dear .

And the catholic song from the meaning of life movie : "Every sperm is sacred , every sperm is great ! and if a sperm gets wasted god gets quite irate ."

god bless Python and the old BBC !

now what would you like to be refered as ? I didn't get that sorted out .

Brenglish ? Englatons ?



[Edited on 24-8-2004 by oddtodd]



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 04:01 AM
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Yeah...Monty Python is very good .
I would like to be refered as ENGLISH.
By the way OT what part of CALIFORNIA are you from ?
I have friends who live in SANTA CLARITA...I've been there -I thought it was GREAT!



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by oddtodd
now what would you like to be refered as ? I didn't get that sorted out .
[Edited on 24-8-2004 by oddtodd]


It depends on the issue.

As a group we are all British, and all part of the UK. This is the terminology when referring to us as a political entity on the world stage. i.e. the British Government, British Army etc.

Scottish, English, Welsh, and Northern Irish are all sub-sets of the British. We are all under the same, British/UK government, although like US states there are slight variations in how they each operate. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own "regional assemblies", a sort of "sub-parliament", although the Scots and Welsh are also fully and in every way part of the the main British/UK parliament as well. Northern Ireland is still a bit of an issue, since the politicians over there haven't really set aside their differences and the Assembly had to be suspended.
Personally I'm hoping Northern Ireland goes all European and joins the Euro. It's the only way I can see that one resolving itself... anyway back to topic..


Basically if you know which region someone comes from, it is perfectly ok to use these sub-titles(scottish, english etc.), and often appreciated, as long as you don't mix them up!. They certainly do help to distinguish between the different cultures and historical backgrounds which is why the Scots and Welsh appreciate them, as long as you get them right.










[Edited on 24/8/04 by muppet]



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by Koka
It's not any better in the media, when an athlete does well and they come from England, they are English, if they come from Scotland, N.Ireland or Wales they are British.

In fact a lot of Londoners believe that England only goes as far as the M25 (ring road encircling London). Where as, it actually goes as far north as John O'Groats......


Actualy last time I looked John O' Groats was in Scotland, Britian and the UK but not in England...LOL
Are you a Londoner?





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