Who is the epitome of Evil, God or Satan?

Originally posted by Dreine
I always get tangled up in common sense when I try to think back to when I was a believer.
Such as, if we are made in God's image, and he is perfect... why does the body decay? Why can't we fly naturally? Why are there different skin colors/eye colors/other measurables? You don't exactly 'tweak' with perfection if you know what I mean

It's either that God made us flawed for a reason (elitism/wanted slaves) or that God did not make us.
My two cents, others have said it better and more eloquently over the years.

Think of the world but with every single person in it having in their possession, the most powerful hydrogen bomb ever built, and they were free to, whenever they felt like it, detonate that bomb.
The Creator of the Universe may decide that was not such a good thing untill they learn some responsibility.

Originally posted by bogomil
Starting from any of the small and continuing to the big circle-arguments of the elitist forms of christianity, unravel them, and no matter if the perspective is theological, divine or mundane there is AUTHORITY at the center.

And authority is always right,.... authority says.

The rest is just semantic camouflage.

Just for the record.

According to the mythology, Lucifer was/is to become the liberal freedom-fighter. Satan is just a bureaucrat.

Are you saying you believe in the supernatural?
I did not think you did.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by rcanem
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I can agree with that. If good is the inverse of evil can you have one without the other? That is like saying there is a left with no right or an up with no down, they cannot be mutually exclusive. And for the record, I do believe that God is a projection of our own desire for answers that we may never know. Now I did it, I will be beat over the head with a Bible for sure now!

No worries.
If you were thin skinned, you would not agree with anything I say out of fear of hell.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Not at all. The book goes on to outline God's plan of salvation through His Son. ]

Yep. Nothing like a perfect plan that includes God having to have his son do a self aggrandizing suicide for those he created so defective that they would need a super hero scapegoat to ride into heaven.

look again for the first time friend. You are responsible for your sins. Stop trying to profit from the suicide of an innocent man.

It is un-manly. Step up and recognize that God is not as stupid as you make him out to be.

Here is what should be your path.

2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Why?
Because of this.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by Dreine
I always get tangled up in common sense when I try to think back to when I was a believer.
Such as, if we are made in God's image, and he is perfect... why does the body decay? Why can't we fly naturally? Why are there different skin colors/eye colors/other measurables? You don't exactly 'tweak' with perfection if you know what I mean

It's either that God made us flawed for a reason (elitism/wanted slaves) or that God did not make us.
My two cents, others have said it better and more eloquently over the years.

Think of the world but with every single person in it having in their possession, the most powerful hydrogen bomb ever built, and they were free to, whenever they felt like it, detonate that bomb.
The Creator of the Universe may decide that was not such a good thing untill they learn some responsibility.

edit on 11-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

I do not disagree to a point.

Remember that, to Christians, we are to emulate God, and the O T God is a genocidal maniac.
To them, genocide is a good form of justice.
To thinking people, it is insanity.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by bogomil
Starting from any of the small and continuing to the big circle-arguments of the elitist forms of christianity, unravel them, and no matter if the perspective is theological, divine or mundane there is AUTHORITY at the center.

And authority is always right,.... authority says.

The rest is just semantic camouflage.

Just for the record.

According to the mythology, Lucifer was/is to become the liberal freedom-fighter. Satan is just a bureaucrat.

Are you saying you believe in the supernatural?
I did not think you did.

Regards
DL

I 'believe' in the concept anomalies (and I have some completely personal, more SUBJECTIVE opinions also). I don't believe in premature and unsound interpretations of anomalies.

And in any case there are some catagory differences. 'Para-normal' isn't the same as 'super-natural'.

After all I am a (rational) metaphysicist, having neither an atheist nor a theist position. But I personally insist on using a rational approach as long as it carries.

Agnostic atheists and I never get into each other hair on such. Actually we get well along.

Thanks for explaining.
Respect is intact.

Regards
DL

This might be a blasphemous question. But why can't God be evil or have an evil side? Why does everyone need to believe that he is perfect and flawless and all good, all righteous, all just, all loving, etc. just because religion says so?

It just doesn't make sense given our imperfect world that is cold and cruel. In a world where evil rules, where 75 percent of the world live in poverty and suffering, where terrible things happen to good people, where animals have to kill and eat other animals to survive, wouldn't it make more sense for God/the Creator/the programmer of our matrix to be evil, sadistic, or revel in chaos? I mean if you can accept that, wouldn't the world make a lot more sense?

Humans have an evil side with harmful destructive qualities. They are imperfect with flaws and negative traits. So why can't God be the same way? The Old Testament describes God as a "jealous God" with regrets and anger. So why do we need to make him out to be perfect and flawless? Why can't he be flawed?

When I'm talking about God, I'm not necessarily referring to a traditional God, just to whatever mind or consciousness at a higher level or dimension is running things and created us. It could also refer to some computer programmer outside of our universe or dimension who put us in a sort of holographic matrix or super computer simulation, since our universe does have some of the properties of a computer program, as some experts have pointed out. (Google "Are we living in a computer simulation" to find some experts, books and websites about this) I'm just referring to whoever or whatever is running things.

Why can't this Creator or super consciousness be evil and flawed, or at least have an evil side? Or at least have negative/bad/imperfect qualities? It would make more sense wouldn't it, given this cold, cruel, unjust universe that we live in that makes no sense. Everything has a good side and bad side. It's part of the ying and yang of our universe. So why can't that apply to the Creator too? If the creation reflects the creator, then this would make sense, wouldn't it? A perfect Creator cannot create an imperfect world.

What do you think?

reply to post by WWu777


There is at least one autonomous religion (gnosticism) and several semi-religions approaching these questions, going as far as to include cosmogony (birth of cosmos) in their speculations and practices (as they include a 'spiritual' science-of-mind allegedly leading to direct experience of a trans-cosmic existence-level).

They have concluded, that somehow and somewhere along the cosmic creation-process things became flawed, and the general attitude is, that something/somebody interfered with the emanations from the theist/semi-religious prime source (ultimate reality), even possibly (in various versions) creating our cosmos as an anomaly. Making a distinction between this something/somebody and the prime source.

Which is in a somewhat contrast to abrahamic religions, which claim, that the prime source and the creator of cosmos is one and the same, and the 'blame' isn't in the quality of cosmos, but in various 'adversaries' and in mankind, who have corrupted the initial 'perfection' of cosmos.

Ofcourse rational methodologies (science/logic) can't settle any such theological question beyond event horizon (i.d. what we can observe in cosmos), but it can point out a direction by looking at the basic fabric of cosmos. And said direction indicates a greater plausibility for a flawed cosmos model, than the abrahamic model.

But no absolute conclusions can be made rationally, and it ofcourse also depends on how 'flawed' is defined, which reference-point is used for 'flawedness'.

Originally posted by WWu777
find some experts, books and websites about this) I'm just referring to whoever or whatever is running things.

Why can't this Creator or super consciousness be evil and flawed, or at least have an evil side? Or at least have negative/bad/imperfect qualities? It would make more sense wouldn't it, given this cold, cruel, unjust universe that we live in that makes no sense. Everything has a good side and bad side. It's part of the ying and yang of our universe. So why can't that apply to the Creator too? If the creation reflects the creator, then this would make sense, wouldn't it? A perfect Creator cannot create an imperfect world.

What do you think?

Yet Christians have talked themselves into believing that all of God's perfectly created souls, all go to imperfection, even as scripture says that perfection can only produce perfection.

Christians do not follow the logic of scripture.
They do not know their bible.

Regards
DL