Who is the epitome of Evil, God or Satan?

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
According to the bible, God is one nasty piece of work.

Stone your children to death for talking back. A-OK by God's "word".

Slavery is also OK.

Good luck if you want to get into heaven and your not Jewish(Do Christians ever bother to read Leviticus?).

God - according to the Bible - is in some serious need of therapy.

S&F

edit on 8/8/2011 by OccamAssassin because: (no reason given)

Let me show you the difference between words "inspired" by God.... And words from one who is "sent" by God.

Inspired

1.2 Kings 2:23-24 : 42 children are killed for calling a prophet "baldy", by two she-bears.
2.1 Samuel 6:19 : 50 070 (or 70) people are killed for looking in (or "at") the Ark of the Covenant.
3.1 Kings 20:30 : God makes a wall fall on and kill 27 000 of an army retreating from some Israelites.
4.Numbers 16:16-49 : Death to all those who complain (14 950 of them altogether).
5.2 Samuel 6:6-11 : God kills someone for accidentally touching the Ark of the Covenant.

Sent By God

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.


Can you see the difference?

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Great post!

Remember that there are always other perspectives that unifying the dissonance you may perceive with truth. When one truth seems to be a mirror reflection of another opposite truth, then you are looking at the mirror of its reflection. This means you have rightly divided truth and must make a choice between the two opposing reflections. Good and evil are these two sides of the reflection. One seems as valid as the other in the reflection.

The missing perspective here is that God divided the light from the dark. They are pre-existing. This makes it less a matter of God creating them as a matter of dividing them from each other. If they are mixed, then chaos is present. If they are separate, then peace, harmony and joy can be free from their opposite reflections. This is the work of God--to separate. We are charged with the same task in our own lives. The darkness, when rightly divided, cannot comprehend the light. We are to be the light in a dark place.

LINK

edit on 8-8-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

Thanks.
I think.

As evolving creatures, all we can ever do is compete/do evil, or cooperate/do good.
We will do whatever is required and to nature, both avenues are good as they enhance survival.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by rcanem
To answer your question, MAN is the embodyment of evil. Apathy and greed allows multitudes of evil to be performed all around with out anyone stepping in to oppose it. And without Opposition, Evil triumphs every time.

Then man is the embodiment of both good and evil.
Right?

There is no God to you.
Right?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
If you are asking which is more evil, the person who does it or the prson who created it allowing for people to do it, then the answer would have to be God if he created everything. For anyone to believe otherwise is pure delusion and just goes to show what blind faith will get you.

I believe it wa Bruce Springsteen who once said " Blind faith in your leaders, or anything, will get you killed."

Yep.
Faith without facts is for fools.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by amaster

Originally posted by rcanem
To answer your question, MAN is the embodyment of evil. Apathy and greed allows multitudes of evil to be performed all around with out anyone stepping in to oppose it. And without Opposition, Evil triumphs every time.

Man may be the embodiment of evil for all his worldly desires, but the gods were the ones who put it there. They created the tree from which we ate then punish us for disobedience, just as they punished Satan for his.

Punish Satan?

By giving him dominion on earth. Quite the punishment that.

That is punishing the fox by putting him in the hen house.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by rcanem
But what purpose did the tree serve if not to test man?

We would be well served to ask that of the one's who wrote those scriptures. The Jews see Eden as man's elevation from average animals to one's who have developed a moral sense and God seems to confirm this with his---they have become as God's, knowing good and evil.

It took Christianity to flip it to a fall.

To Jews, we passed the test. To Christianity, we failed.

You decide. Are you a better man with a moral sense or without?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by rcanem
reply to post by amaster

 

This is true, one might be doing what they percieve is right and others may look on it as evil, it IS all in the perception. However we were given free will to make our own choices, and so far we have made some pretty poor choices throughout history.

edit on 8-8-2011 by rcanem because: (no reason given)

Yes but never such an evil thought as God himself when he genocided the whole earth. Except for the super 8 of course.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
According to the bible, God is one nasty piece of work.

Stone your children to death for talking back. A-OK by God's "word".

Slavery is also OK.

Good luck if you want to get into heaven and your not Jewish(Do Christians ever bother to read Leviticus?).

God - according to the Bible - is in some serious need of therapy.

S&F

edit on 8/8/2011 by OccamAssassin because: (no reason given)

Let me show you the difference between words "inspired" by God.... And words from one who is "sent" by God.

Inspired

1.2 Kings 2:23-24 : 42 children are killed for calling a prophet "baldy", by two she-bears.
2.1 Samuel 6:19 : 50 070 (or 70) people are killed for looking in (or "at") the Ark of the Covenant.
3.1 Kings 20:30 : God makes a wall fall on and kill 27 000 of an army retreating from some Israelites.
4.Numbers 16:16-49 : Death to all those who complain (14 950 of them altogether).
5.2 Samuel 6:6-11 : God kills someone for accidentally touching the Ark of the Covenant.

Sent By God

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.


Can you see the difference?

I can. What is sent by God is un-workable rhetoric and would only work in a perfect world with no evil in it.
Much or what else Jesus said is also un-workable rhetoric.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


To be honest, not sure if Im with u or against u on this.
There seems to be Two GOds within the bible.
Atleast that is what I am starting to believe.

The GOD that sent Jesus doesnt have the same persona as the OT one.
Some times I wonder if the NT GOD did all the rescues in the OT against the OT GOD.
IE Noah, Lot, Isreal. So I have begun to read the gnostic gospels to get a grasp on it.

LOTZA LUV

Stan in Judaism is a faithful angel of God who only tempts people to sin. While there are other angels who have various other jobs. Like Sodom and Gomorrah is believed to have been destroyed by Gabriel or Michael. Everything good and bad comes from God in Judaism. Humans do have free-will. But God is in charge and wants us doing good.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by amaster

Originally posted by rcanem
To answer your question, MAN is the embodyment of evil. Apathy and greed allows multitudes of evil to be performed all around with out anyone stepping in to oppose it. And without Opposition, Evil triumphs every time.

Man may be the embodiment of evil for all his worldly desires, but the gods were the ones who put it there. They created the tree from which we ate then punish us for disobedience, just as they punished Satan for his.

Punish Satan?

By giving him dominion on earth. Quite the punishment that.

That is punishing the fox by putting him in the hen house.

Regards
DL

There is an interesting answer to this in the Forgotten Books of Eden. In the book of Adam and Eve, ch. 13, it says that God knew they would fall and made it part of the plan to take down Satan.

13 "For I knew thou shouldest sin and transgress, and come out into this land. Yet would I not force thee, nor be heard upon thee, nor shut up; nor doom thee through thy fall; nor through thy coming out from light into darkness; nor yet through thy coining from the garden into this land.

Then in v. 16, it says that He knew Satan would temp them. This was the point. We were placed here for our own good to defeat Satan.

16 "Then I commanded thee concerning the tree, that thou eat not thereof. Yet I knew that Satan, who deceived himself, would also deceive thee.

17 "So I made known to thee by means of the tree, not to come near him. And I told thee not to eat of the fruit thereof, nor to taste of it, nor yet to sit under it, nor to yield to it.

18 "Had I not been and spoken to thee, O Adam, concerning the tree, and had I left thee without a commandment, and thou hadst sinned--it would have been an offence on My part, for not having given thee any order; thou wouldst turn round and blame Me for it.

19 "But I commanded thee, and warned thee, and thou didst fall. So that My creatures cannot blame me; but the blame rests on them alone.

Here is where it gets to the point of why He did it.

Ch. 14

2 But God the Lord said to Adam, "Verily I say unto thee, this darkness will pass from thee, every day I have determined for thee, until the fulfilment of My covenant; when I will save thee and bring thee back again into the garden, into the abode of light thou longest for, wherein is no darkness. I will bring thee, to it--in the kingdom of heaven."

p. 13

3 Again said God unto Adam, "All this misery that thou hast been made to take upon thee because of thy transgression, will not free thee from the hand of Satan, and will not save thee.

4 "But I will. When I shall come down from heaven, and shall become flesh of thy seed, and take upon Me the infirmity from which thou sufferest, then the darkness that came upon thee in this cave shall come upon Me in the grave, when I am in the flesh of thy seed.

5 "And I, who am without years, shall be subject to the reckoning of years, of times, of months, and of days, and I shall be reckoned as one of the sons of men, in order to save thee."

6 And God ceased to commune with Adam.

reply to post by Greatest I am


I have not mentioned how I believe, stop making assumptions, its a nasty habit. I have simply pointed out mans capacity for Evil on a grand scale. I believe it centers on Greed mostly, one of the Seven Deadly Sins. As well as Apathy, another one of the afore mentioned Seven. Apathy allows people to sit and watch evil but do nothing about it. So who is more Evil, the one that commits the atrocity or the one who stands by and watches and does nothing? Food for thought.

reply to post by ManOfGod267


I must admit, Satan/Lucifer is one of the hardest to understand for me.
Lucifer does a job to test the faith of humanity.
But christians believe him to be the boogy man.

Just another cunfuseing chess piece on the board I guess

LOTZA LUV

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
According to the bible, God is one nasty piece of work.

Stone your children to death for talking back. A-OK by God's "word".

Slavery is also OK.

Good luck if you want to get into heaven and your not Jewish(Do Christians ever bother to read Leviticus?).

God - according to the Bible - is in some serious need of therapy.

S&F

edit on 8/8/2011 by OccamAssassin because: (no reason given)

Let me show you the difference between words "inspired" by God.... And words from one who is "sent" by God.

Inspired

1.2 Kings 2:23-24 : 42 children are killed for calling a prophet "baldy", by two she-bears.
2.1 Samuel 6:19 : 50 070 (or 70) people are killed for looking in (or "at") the Ark of the Covenant.
3.1 Kings 20:30 : God makes a wall fall on and kill 27 000 of an army retreating from some Israelites.
4.Numbers 16:16-49 : Death to all those who complain (14 950 of them altogether).
5.2 Samuel 6:6-11 : God kills someone for accidentally touching the Ark of the Covenant.

Sent By God

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.


Can you see the difference?

I can. What is sent by God is un-workable rhetoric and would only work in a perfect world with no evil in it.
Much or what else Jesus said is also un-workable rhetoric.

Regards
DL

Im truely saddened to hear you say that my friend. His lessons are far from unworkable, but it seems not everyone is meant to understand that fact.

Unfortunatly i can only point in the right direction, the rest is up to you

reply to post by Greatest I am


Punishment as in, kicking him out of the bus. Satan had pity for us. He saw our potential and for provoking this, he was kicked out, sent to Earth to be with the ones he loved . . . us.

Put it this way;

No other animal must make fawning professions of faith all their life to save them from hellfire. God is a man-made construct. We create the idea of what we consider good or evil. Nature/or the universe doesn't care. And I certainly suspect, that if a benevolent deity exists, the deity would judge on merits, not belief, belief should be honesty with what you feel inside.

Originally posted by Mividau
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

To be honest, not sure if Im with u or against u on this.
There seems to be Two GOds within the bible.
Atleast that is what I am starting to believe.

The GOD that sent Jesus doesnt have the same persona as the OT one.
Some times I wonder if the NT GOD did all the rescues in the OT against the OT GOD.
IE Noah, Lot, Isreal. So I have begun to read the gnostic gospels to get a grasp on it.

LOTZA LUV

The Gnostic Christians were way ahead of the Orthodox Christians of old.
Constantine did not want free thinkers but instead wanted sheeple so he backed the Orthodox.
Thanks for thinking.

I enjoyed this.
Play down the drug aspect and go for the history.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by ManOfGod267
Stan in Judaism is a faithful angel of God who only tempts people to sin. While there are other angels who have various other jobs. Like Sodom and Gomorrah is believed to have been destroyed by Gabriel or Michael. Everything good and bad comes from God in Judaism. Humans do have free-will. But God is in charge and wants us doing good.

Rather a startling contradiction here.

If God is in charge of you, how can you have free will?
You are either doing his will or yours.

From the Christian view, the moment A & E did what they wanted and not what God wanted, he threw a sissy fit and cursed all of us as well as the whole world.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


I understand where you're coming from on this topic. When I have been reading about Adam and Eve. Before they ate of the Tree of Good and Evil: They were like the angels. Only knowing good and will live forever like the angels. When they were tempted Adam and Eve did die after living more many hundred of years. This event is where people are now able to do both good and evil(free will). Over time G-d tempted people using Satan and also gave laws to Noah and other prophets to turn the people away from sin and toward G-d. I know it is confusing you would have to study a lot. Do you understand me?

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by Greatest I am
[
6 And God ceased to commune with Adam.

I can see why Christianity did not include this in the connon as it shows God cutting himself from man and that would make the rest of the bible and gospels all a lie as what is shown being communicated later would have had no authority and would have all been made up by man, including that very same story.

Regards
DL