A second night of looting and violence in London.

A second night of looting and violence in London.

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC news:

More than 100 people have been arrested as officers were attacked, police vehicles damaged and shops looted.

Disorder spread to Enfield, Walthamstow and Waltham Forest in north London and to Brixton in the south of the city.

Home Secretary Teresa May has cut short her holiday to return to the UK following the disorder.

Some 35 officers have been injured over the two nights of rioting.

The Guardian:

At 10.45pm, when rioters set a double decker bus alight, the page posted: "Please upload any pictures or video's you may have from tonight in Tottenham.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.guardian.co.uk

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Massive Riot In Tottenham London

London continues to burn it seems, with riots still happening for what I can see as no real reason apart from thuggish cultures.

The people involved, the "leaders" of the community, say it's for their rights as a British Citizen, one even having the nerve to compare soldiers fighting in Afghanistan to the man that decided to shoot at police officers.

Also, The Guardian have taken a different stance, posing the question if Facebook and Twitter "Fueled the violence".

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Haven't they sorted this out yet?

They have had a little while to get it sorted right?

England always has lots of riots when there's a Tory government. Expect plenty more of the same, in London and other cities too.

reply to post by guessing


One would think so, but it's less about their rights and more about looting sports shops and setting fire to DFS. It's all about fun for them.

reply to post by VraxUK


what I mean is why have the military not stopped it yet.

they could stop it any time right?

I hope London can get these thugs under control soon. This looting and burning of private property is pretty childish and no way to truly protest anything. Protesting like this does nothing but make you look like a common thug. All you Londoners stay safe!

reply to post by guessing


If the military got involved, we would be looking at a similar situation to Northern Ireland, people throwing petrol bombs at soldiers, and soldiers returning fire, doing what they are trained to do.

reply to post by guessing


Stopping riots of people without killing them is a rather risky undertaking. It really depends upon just how strong their will is to riot and cause trouble.

Honestly, I'd start with riot police and copious amounts of tear-gas (however, for this to be effective, there needs to be some kind of allowance for dispersal - trapping a bunch of people and gassing the living hell out of them isn't going to do much more than make them panic or die from extreme reactions to the gas).

You really only want to send in the military when you're ready to see bodies hit the floor - or you want to reinforce the status of a border (IE: "cross this line acting like an idiot, and we will put a few rounds into you.")

And groups of people really start to get out of hand when you fire into them. So you'd better be ready to have a lot of blood on your hands when you send in the military. All it takes is a few trigger-happy idiots (on either side - in the uniform or in the crowd) to plunge the whole mess into chaos.

The goal is to restore order - not replace it with your preferred form of chaos.

reply to post by Aim64C



your right.

lets hope it resolves shortly

While it's nice to see the populace revolt against an oppressive government, they really need to focus their energy on international establishments and not their local small businesses. By doing so they are losing credibility. I just wish the US would take a page from this and start our own revolt, but alas, we are too complacent to do anything like this.

I was in Kentucky this past weekend, and I was amazed at how many people either were not aware of what is going on, or did not care. People just go on about their lives and are completely blind to what is happening to their country. It is going to be a rude awakening for a lot of US citizens when SHTF.

I have the song "London Bridge is Falling Down" stuck in my head now.

I find it interesting that the article, rather than go into any great depth as to why these riots have occured in the first place, has focussed more how the "authorities" track the people involved.

It reminds me of the Cronulla riots in Australia a few years ago. The people still do have a voice, after all.

The death of Duggan reminds me strongly of Carlo Giuliani's murder at the hands of police. Although this violence and aggression is not ideal, it is still representative of the people's voice.

One cannot, absolutely cannot cause any real change without a shot being fired, and harm being done. If the people have a problem with their society, what recourse do they have but to fight? This is reinforcing the lie of democracy.

Originally posted by haarvik
While it's nice to see the populace revolt against an oppressive government, they really need to focus their energy on international establishments and not their local small businesses. By doing so they are losing credibility. I just wish the US would take a page from this and start our own revolt, but alas, we are too complacent to do anything like this.

I was in Kentucky this past weekend, and I was amazed at how many people either were not aware of what is going on, or did not care. People just go on about their lives and are completely blind to what is happening to their country. It is going to be a rude awakening for a lot of US citizens when SHTF.

Many in England have resorted to rioting and looting to make a point. The young man that died....died in violence...the.rioting and looting lets the world know how upset many in England are.

I live in an apartment building in the U.S. that houses 110 people.....during this debt crisis of ours....many of my neighbors were either not aware of what is going on...and/or they were in an extreme state of apathy.

I do feel ...that here in the U.S. we are (in the near future) going to be having protest marches...and eventually riots too....It is just a matter of time.

Originally posted by haarvik
While it's nice to see the populace revolt against an oppressive government, they really need to focus their energy on international establishments and not their local small businesses.

The "population" involved does not represent the population as a whole.

This is not a revolt about oppression. It's not even a revolt. It's an excuse to be criminal on a large scale.

The police set out to arrest a known violent drug dealer. He shot at them, they shot back. If this is supposed to be "oppressive", are you suggesting that it would be preferable to have a government that lets violent drug dealers control the area you live in?

Gangs and thugs using it as an excuse to get some "cool" looking pictures for their Facebook pages.

On a side note, the UK police are one of the only (if not actually the only) police forces who are not allowed to use more effective methods of riot control such as watercannons. These riots get this bad because some limp-wristed liberal sociologist somewhere thinks "ohh watercannons, that all sounds a bit violent, what will the Grauniad readers think about that!?!" They're generally happy to watch a policeman get set on fire and burn to death than risk bruising the ego of a darling little rioter.

It is true people, do not beleive the hype. This is not an uprising of the people, it is criminals taking advantage chaos. They robbed mobile phone shops, set fire to small businesses, ans in Brixton they even helped themsleves to a shop full of bicycles. Just thugs jumping on the opportunity.

We need a revolution not a riot. Don't support the enemy by supporting these rioters. Support peacfull revolution.

reply to post by EvillerBob


It's a joke, I think the phrase "Dont bring a knife to a gun fight" comes to terms. If it escalates, there's more chance of someone dying, police or yobbo, and then it will get serious. It's almost like a civil revolt. Still, I think they should bring the army in, we cannot afford to take police of our streets to suppress a pointless mob. Though, as I said before, it's more likely to get out of hand with the army, but you know, people deserve better in this country, people deserve to be protected. If a man comes into your house you are aloud to take him out as of a few years ago, so if a man sets fire to your house, or your property, the police/Army should be able and willing to use any means possible to protect innocent lives.

I wouldn't say the UK has an oppressive government, I think we have it a lot easier than other countries. The government seems content on not harming anyone so in all fairness these riots are pointless.


For anyone that hasn't heard about why the boy was killed, he shot at armed police. It's his own fault, just like it will be the "rioters" fault if this escalates.

They have caused £100m pounds worth of damage, threatened to set cars with babies inside alight, and burnt endless homes and shops down. The British government encourage peaceful protest, but this isnt peaceful. It's intimidating, destructive, unlawful and violent.

Originally posted by VraxUK
reply to post by EvillerBob

 

For anyone that hasn't heard about why the boy was killed, he shot at armed police. It's his own fault, just like it will be the "rioters" fault if this escalates.

He wasn't a "boy"; Mark Duggan was a 29 year old drug dealer who was already known to the police. They sent armed police to arrest him because he was known to be violent and likely to be carrying a firearm.

ETA: While I won't remove this post, I'll ask you to consider it "put on hold" for a while until I've had a chat with a friend. Retractions will be issued if necessary!

The problem with bringing in the army is that bullets start flying...and whatever people in other countries think. Us Brits know it's easier to get a gun that get a bank account... you only have to ask the right person.
I could buy a gun if I wanted, it would take 5 minutes of asking the 'likely' people and I guarentee one of them would be able to deliver.

So when the army move in with guns, gangs do the same...then everyday folk who arn't in gangs get guns to 'defend' themselves whilst they rob the nearest shopping centre they can find...then people really start dieing.


What we do need though, is riot gear for every policeman out when the riots start like this, and the allowance to use heavier methods to stop riots. The police should not always be on the run from scum like this, and I do believe scum is the word. Protesting over the death of a gang member who shot at the police is bad enough, pretending to protest over that so you can steal is something else, even the twisted sense of gang loyalty is absent here.