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A candid judgment of American Culture

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posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:25 AM
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I think the cult of personality surrounding celebrities and the lives of the rich has created a very dangerous moral and social void in the lives of younger people. Speaking as a teenager, I cant help but feel disenchanted with the never ending wave of abercrombie and VH1.

*and yes Im guilty of being a trend whore too.




posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 03:42 AM
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Arkalaeus - What you seem not to understand is that T.V. is not American culture. Brittany Spears is not American culture. McDonalds is not American culture. American culture is friends getting together for a sunday afternoon bar-b-que. American Culture is whats going on in florida right now and what went on in New York after 9/11. American culture is not what the media says it is it is what we do and who we are. American culture is B.B. King and Elvis Presley, Its fire fighters who ran INTO the burning buildings on 9/11, its people taking the time to voluteer for soup kitchens and voter registration drives, its men and women comming together to debate the future of America and peacfully changing the government every 4-8 years, its blacks, whites, hspanics, christians, and muslims, living together in the same neghborhood without molotov cocktails being thrown or churces and mosques being burned, its men and women wrking, and being educated side by side, its the values we teach our children to help protect them against what the media shows, its a kid whose father never made more than 20k a year going to college and graduating as a doctor or lawyer, Its friends getting together to play pool or watch a ballgame, its all these things and more but what its not is what T.V. tells you it is.


BTW whats wrong with rock and roll?
BTWA whats wrong with franchses?



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 05:36 AM
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I agree with ARK in principal, but think we as a nation are not evil, just getting more "lost". Im proud that younger generations are asking questions like he has...it gives me hope for the future of America.
Hope that the past wont be forgotten, hope that we as a people can find something to UNITE our states, instead of further and further little "i'll do what i want" Niche groups.

How do we know what America is when the lines are blurred more and more every day, by so called do-gooders with their all inclusive adgendas.
Any society has the right, thru democratic principals, to determine which behaiviors are and are not acceptable for them...But some people want there to be no lines...no rules....no IDENTITY other than the one they wish to make for themselves, without care for the society overall.

Ark asks 27jd,


27jd, you aren't debating me. You are insulting me and trying to make trouble for me. Stop being such a jerk and meet me as an equal in your words. If you truly love your country, then speak to me as a citizen and address the issues I spoke of.

You know? I ask this of that member all the time...dont get your hopes up.
The attitude expressed exemplifies the selfish, do anything mentality that you have seen exhibited in a larger form in this culture overall. No care to be nice and reccognize existing cultural values and try to find a way to meet on common ground, only self centered , one sided views that i find just as exclusive as if they would have said "we dont want your kind around here" to start with.

Indeed America has kinda set its self up to have this "dilution" of its core values, as we are the melting pot, welcoming people and ideas from all cultures...but now we see there is peril in this as well...the danger that we could lose some of the unity that has made the USA great. Too many niche groups, not enough common ground, and a refusal by some, to even consider that societal boundaries can/should affect them or anyone.
If you as a citizen choose to do things that are considered outside the accepted norm, then dont point the finger and whine..."your oppressive society has made me an outcast"...this was a choice you got to make for yourself.

Believe it or not, some of us in the media do agree that there is alot of spoon fed pablum to the masses on tv....but some of us get into trouble all the time when we raise a question of say "ratings over news/cultural value" Dont give up on the media, its one of this cultures best tools, just demand more of them by tuning into non crap shows, instead of crud...the ratings translate directly into $$$, and we all know thats whats driving things here.

Keep asking the good questions ARK, dont be discouraged, and like some other responders have said, make yourself a better American and try gracefully to include others in you views without alienating them more.
Keep your morals up, and perhaps others will see you lead by example and follow.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 06:30 AM
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Arkaleus,

People tend to hate what they can not understand, they way you write and what your stand for and the mere issue of you been muslin American that make some people edgy and they will bash you and will question your motives.

Yes in your views of society you spot the wickedness but understand most people is blinded by it, and because you bring this to the light some will insult you, dont let it bother you it is people here that will agree with you and some that will not and respectfully will let you know but others will attack your views and with not respect at all.

I like your views they are refreshing and different and it is nice to see another way of interpretation of what is going on around us in this nation.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 08:23 AM
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Hey, Hey, I am 44 years old. I do not drink. I do not smoke. I do not do drugs. I do not commit adultery. I have not killed anyone. Our perception of the world is greatly influenced from within. How we see things externally is a result of how we think and feel internally. A mighty oak tree is an oxygen producer to the environmentalist, a grand specimen to the horticulturalist, a living entity and home to wildlife to the conservationist, and a stack of 2x4's to the lumberjack. I have found untold numbers of good people in the U.S.A. I imagine if one rests in manure, he smells manure, but if one rests in honey he smells the sweetness of it.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
Arkalaeus - What you seem not to understand is that T.V. is not American culture. Brittany Spears is not American culture. McDonalds is not American culture. American culture is friends getting together for a sunday afternoon bar-b-que.


I believe you are totally wrong in this. Look at the TV shows, they have created "Reality". While most don't see this as Reality, it affects us nonetheless.

McDonalds is culture, along with Levi 501s. Go overseas and see how much just our "stuff" has changed things. They watch our movies and TV.

Our culture has died. How many people read more than 5 books a year? I'd say around 15%.

How many vote? Fat people are growing in numbers and size. All indicators of the internal rot we enjoy, and will continue to enjoy with the two Big Parties.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 10:46 AM
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Krazyjethro mybe you need to turn off the computer and T.V. and interact with people. I can assure you that among the people I know and socialise with American culture is quite healthy.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 10:55 AM
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What's a "culture level"?

I never made on of my own.


You did whether you know it or not... You defined your own acceptance and exposure to new things, and how you view/appreciate them...(though I see where you're going with this, hehe...)



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 11:08 AM
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The American government seems to have become more of a corporation these days. Perhaps they are the dreaded NWO that people claim will take over the world.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 11:11 AM
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Sure you can have all the drugs, nightclubs, foolishness.... but if it in anyway hurts an innocent person not involved..... those people must be punished.

It's up to the individual to filter out the TV and Radio, newspapers... .. . and make his own conclusions based on not what some corporation trend setter thinks.... but what is real.

[edit on 18-8-2004 by RedOctober90]



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by CazMedia
Ark asks 27jd,


27jd, you aren't debating me. You are insulting me and trying to make trouble for me. Stop being such a jerk and meet me as an equal in your words. If you truly love your country, then speak to me as a citizen and address the issues I spoke of.

You know? I ask this of that member all the time...dont get your hopes up.
The attitude expressed exemplifies the selfish, do anything mentality that you have seen exhibited in a larger form in this culture overall. No care to be nice and reccognize existing cultural values and try to find a way to meet on common ground, only self centered , one sided views that i find just as exclusive as if they would have said "we dont want your kind around here" to start with.


Believe it or not, some of us in the media do agree that there is alot of spoon fed pablum to the masses on tv....but some of us get into trouble all the time when we raise a question of say "ratings over news/cultural value" Dont give up on the media, its one of this cultures best tools, just demand more of them by tuning into non crap shows, instead of crud...the ratings translate directly into $$$, and we all know thats whats driving things here.

Keep asking the good questions ARK, dont be discouraged, and like some other responders have said, make yourself a better American and try gracefully to include others in you views without alienating them more.
Keep your morals up, and perhaps others will see you lead by example and follow.


I love how when your issues ARE addressed by me, and you disagree with my response, you say I am not addressing your issues. Please feel free to read my responses to Arks posts, just because you do not like my answers you discount them and say I am not responding. I have engaged both of you, sorry if you don't like what I have to say. And CazMedia, you being the big "reader" you claim to be, have you not read Arks previous posts?
This individual believes we should be a nation under Islam, threatened our society with total destruction a number of times, and appears to be trying to "convert" us all to Islam and convince us to rise against our government! I cannot believe any of you are pandering to this guy! I asked him, while he was calling us all wicked, wretched slaves of our society, if he would denounce Bin Laden and his followers as evil as well, he would not.
Does that tell you ANYTHING?! Your man Bush would be very disappointed in you for giving this guy lip service, would he not? You guys can continue to grant validity to this guys posts, while saying "I hear what you're saying, but you shouldn't hate EVERYTHING about America". Well, he has stated that he DOES, read his posts not only on this thread, but on several others. Like I said, he is either an American wise @$$ stringing you guys along, or some Islamic fundamentalist recruiter trying to talk Americans into hating their ENTIRE society, and trying to advise us to revolt. Caz, you stated in a previous post cannabis should be legal (one thing we can agree on), I'm sure you have had sex outside of marriage, tell those things to this guy, see how fast he calls you a wicked child and a wretched slave. I agreed with him that the government is corrupt, but disagreed that we should all be held to his morals, he flew of the handle and called me an evil-doer and such, so, unless you are willing to adopt Islamic values, he will wish you to "bathe in blood" as he puts it, as well. Just ask him.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 01:55 PM
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27jd,

We all the respect to you, I have read Arks post and his post does not gives me any feelings of been threaten by him or nor I feel that he is imposing his views on me either, I see he has views that are diferent at least to me and obviosly to you and others, but I don't see it as scare tactic from his part.

In the begining I found his post amuzing like I find some other members post and interesting never threatening.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
Krazyjethro mybe you need to turn off the computer and T.V. and interact with people. I can assure you that among the people I know and socialise with American culture is quite healthy.


The American culture you speak of is not. The culture of reality TV, single moms, high divorce rates, lack of personal responcibility, and the quest for personal convinience is alive and kicking.

MWM, you are a conservative, if things didn't change then you would have nothing to talk about would you? But as it stands now, you have plenty to.

Why? Because America is moving away from what you want (which I agree with). Is that only in the legislation department? No, culture is on the same page.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:20 PM
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I'm 35 years old and there may not be that many as old or older than me on this board but in my view after formal education, a state university degree, family, job, mortgage, and whatever else you can throw at it, I've heard one statement that rings true and it came from a very unlikely source.

That statement is "Everybody's full of crap. The sooner you realize that, the farther a. of the game you are." It came from comedian Chris Rock.

Ark, your post made me think and I agree with some points about our morality and sense of right and wrong in society today in the US. I'm not sure why you put it in this forum but its fine with me.

I would asked that if you must post things such as the tar baby song, could you link to it somewhere else and give us the jist? Man, my eyes are already strained enough from map work this week without tryin' to follow all that. If you have the lyrics on another site, please edit your post and just link it.




posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:30 PM
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astrocreep,

I guess that is why I tend to see things in a different light that the younger people in ATS like you said after being around and raising a family and living the American way of life you come to terms that everything or most of it is just a dream and a hole bunch of BS that the government feeds to you.

But life is good and we as well enjoy it now that we can.


It is true with the old say you get wiser as you get older.
(At least for most)



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:44 PM
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Let's not forget the young adults that can identify like you marg, i'm 21 and well aware of the bs the gov't feeds you as well as both political affiliations.
Seems to be politics are slowly making it's way into every breath of fresh air you take from all directions.

It's stemming away from the political arena into other areas of our life...


Again I say to Ark,

Your perspective on American culture falls into the lines of POP CULTURE, more then American culture.........

Drugs will always be around, people will dabble and grow out of it, some will not... That's a pretty shallow observation on your part if you are actually going to stem so low to the root to use that as part of your theory...

Same goes with rock and roll dude, rock died along time ago....
While there is nothing wrong with rock and roll, it's more a thing of the past now, and people enjoy listening to it at parties like the one I just went to on the weekend... It's backround noise, is all it is... It doesn't define American culture... Sure we drink beer, stand around bonfires, listen to rock, converse and laugh, it's not the whole, just a small FRAGMENT...

Like buddy said above, American culture is getting together for family get togethers, bbq, being with families, ect...

Did you know Bbq's come from Germany??
Did you also know fireworks originated from China??


There's much about America that has actually come from different areas of the world....
It's a huge melting pot, over time it's roots are forgotten about and then just becomes American.
But if you educate yourself of it, you will see that American culture comes from places all over the world, traditions that are American, come from all over the world, google it... It's quite interesting...



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I guess that is why I tend to see things in a different light that the younger people in ATS like you said after being around and raising a family and living the American way of life you come to terms that everything or most of it is just a dream and a hole bunch of BS that the government feeds to you.

But life is good and we as well enjoy it now that we can.


It is true with the old say you get wiser as you get older.
(At least for most)


I'm not quite as old (27) and I too have a son who I love very much. I had the luxury of not growing up in a "religious" household, and was able to make my own decision as to what is "good and evil". I consider myself a very good person, I do not kill bugs in my home, I relocate them outside, because I respect ALL life and will not kill unless neccesary. I have never been arrested or been in any trouble with the law. And I take issue with anybody who determines a certain behavior is "evil" because they personally do not agree with it. As long as no innocent parties are affected, what a person does in their personal life is nobody else's business. If somebody views something as immoral, than they should not engage in it, and they can feel right by their "god". On the flip side, I do agree that the entertainment industry forces what some may consider "immoral" on everybody, and that is wrong as well, these things should not be forced on society any more than religion should.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:59 PM
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27jd,

See, you are not that different from me, or from most people here, I like about the bug thing I do the same at home. My children call me crazy, but hey that is the way I am. You have won a place in my good people list.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
27jd,

See, you are not that different from me, or from most people here, I like about the bug thing I do the same at home. My children call me crazy, but hey that is the way I am. You have won a place in my good people list.


Yeah, people call me crazy for that too. But it makes me feel good. And my point is that just because somebody doesn't adhere to a "religious" lifestyle, it does not mean they are wicked, evil people like some have posted. If two single people hook up, that is not wrong, it's nature. And if somebody wants to have a few beers, as long as they don't drive or become abusive, that also is not wrong. But Ark has stated that it is and we should be cursed and pay with our lives (see his post on making america an Islamic nation), that is why I find his stance so ignorant. And because of that, I'm branded "evil", when I literally wouldn't hurt a fly.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 03:33 PM
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Thanks for your kind words, folks.

I know that I am hard to understand sometimes. My perspective is very hard to share with folks who haven't followed the same path as myself.

When you climb tall trees all the time, you see the earth and sky a little differently than those who live on the ground. I can see things far off, and nearby, and it's frustrating because I am often not believed, or misunderstood.

I did not threaten my own people. I did not support Bin Laden. I don't know anything about that kind of stuff. I am a muslim by the meaning of the word muslim, which any truly faithful man is. It is other people who have separated this word to mean something else. I can't speak with the same errors as you, when I know the truth.

My faith isn't a part of this. I can't really describe my faith to you anyways. Therefore I cannot be trying to convert anyone to anything, because I have nothing to convert you to. This is a civil matter I am speaking of, the business of citizens in a the dying stages of a republic and the emergence of a new order of plutarchy governed by corporations and their political allies.

That's what I'm trying to get into people's .s. I know there are a great number of patriots in America, and if they were able to see things as clearly as I, they would would get a little fire in them too.

My critique of my own country is one of the necessary virtues required of all real citizens.

I am going to put the ball in your court now. Look at the new generation of kids. You parents, you older people, you wise young people. Weigh and measure your generation, and prognosticate upon your measure. Put your verdict in writing in the following posts.

Judge and weigh, ye men of merit. Do not heed the devils who fear judgment.

Arkaleus


[edit on 18-8-2004 by Arkaleus]



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