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Zionist Christianity - a cautionary tale

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posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Jm, I see where you are comeing from.
But these are the oldest scrolls of chrisanity ever found.
Of course they are going to contradict the chrisanity of today.
Because that chrisanity lost to this version.

History is written by the winners, that is a common fact.
So who are the winners here.
Cmon JM hop of that high horse for a moment and relize,
Even you're views dont fit in with the common mold of christian truths.

You dont believe Jesus is GOD, strike one and in many circles antichrist like.
You believe in the 7th day sabbath, strike 2. Which acording to you're statement to me
on another thread. Deems you must obey the full letter of OT law.
You dont believe in faith alone, strike 3. Which some say to be heretical based on the
fact you completely undermind what Jesus did.
You're concepts are not 100% concrete "christian concepts".
So you chargeing in here like that about it is antichristian,
Is the pot calling the kettle black. Dont ya think?

No one knows 100% what is in the scrolls and those controlling them aint allowing it.
I use what I find about them because everybody states the books in the NT has overall
athuority based on dates. The scrolls throw that concept out of the window because they are
older.

About people useing them to prove their view points, Thats being done with the bible.
So once again a moot arguement. And a rather laim one at that.
Because all christian denominations have been there and done that a million times over.
Look at you and NOT you're Typical. Same exact verses two totaly different view points.

LOTZA LUV and peace.




posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by Mividau
 

use what I find about them because everybody states the books in the NT has overall
athuority based on dates. The scrolls throw that concept out of the window because they are
older.
Older is not necessarily better.
Think about John the Baptist.
Could Jesus have rescued him from his bondage, or could Jesus have somehow put his head back on?
The old fades away, to make way for the new, which was the teaching of Jesus.
As for my not believing all this trinitarian doctrine, I believe the NT that says Jesus emptied himself of those god powers he had previously and whatever powers he had in his ministry were derived by authority of the Father.
Now some would argue he had all that, independently. Well, he could have by right but he relinquished that claim on that right in order to be a redemption of mankind by obeying God and not giving into temptation to do things for his own benefit.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 





Stone temples are idols. An idol is made by human hands, an idol has a "demon" in it which is worshipped, not the stone or wood but the demon within. Demon means "of divine origin" actual Greek etymology, Demons can be good or bad, helpful or harmful, just or capricious. Stone temple: made with human hands, entity of divine origin within. The stone isn't worshipped, the demon within is.


I loved that whole post btw, (Did i star ya yet??)
That quote I have been trying to say that for years but never can.
I always sound like an idiot when I say it LOL.

Anyways back to the point ya made. To me that was what Jesus may have been trying to tell us.
That temples arent truely apart of his father. They are man made idols. Not of him.
The book of John has begun to make that crystal clear to me.

What we truely want will never be found in temples or this system.
It is much higher then us. Sometimes even inconcieveable.
It is beyond us and this physical reality of things.
But yet more simple and uncomplicated then our religions make it out to be.

LOTZA LUV (maybe or i am a complete idiot LOL)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60


accepting philosophies that are meant to counteract the claims of the NT and to undermine accepted Christianity, leaves one with something that is not Christianity as it has been known for some centuries. If a sort of Hybrid religion is created, that religion is not properly Christianity and the adherents of it should be aware of that fact.

You are trying to have it both ways. In using traditional, established Christianity in order to refute the modern Judeo/Christian fusion, you are in fact perpetuating it.

99% of Christian Orthodoxy take for granted that YHWH is God, and the Father. Yet you know that the angel(demon, of divine origin) YHWH is less than God. Can you use established orthodoxy to counter what is happening today? I don't think so.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Mividau


Sometimes even inconcieveable.

Sometimes???



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by jmdewey60


accepting philosophies that are meant to counteract the claims of the NT and to undermine accepted Christianity, leaves one with something that is not Christianity as it has been known for some centuries. If a sort of Hybrid religion is created, that religion is not properly Christianity and the adherents of it should be aware of that fact.

You are trying to have it both ways. In using traditional, established Christianity in order to refute the modern Judeo/Christian fusion, you are in fact perpetuating it.

99% of Christian Orthodoxy take for granted that YHWH is God, and the Father. Yet you know that the angel(demon, of divine origin) YHWH is less than God. Can you use established orthodoxy to counter what is happening today? I don't think so.
No.
Just warn people who are in the midst of being introduced to it.
Only God can stop it and by then, it will be too late for those who have chosen that path.
edit on 9-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 

Well, while Bob may have developed a spark for the love of God (and we all have a spark to love and serve something, which should be re-directed towards God) he does not understand his position towards Godhead.

God gave us a spark in our super-soul, where we think we can control material nature, and that we are enjoying and in control. This mistaken desire to be gods led to our fall into illusion and the material worlds.
This confuses many people who think they are "gods" on earth.
But their control and enjoyment is temporary in the material world, for surely old age, disease and death will come to every living thing.

Only God is the supreme enjoyer, and He sends the avatars, and incarnates as He sees fit.
Not even the demi-gods can control Him.
So how can a servant of God think that he or she can bring about a "rapture", or force God to appear on earth?
So Bob must learn that God decides, and he is but a humble servant.
To have a relationship with Godhead is to be an eternal servant.
A servant does not play master over his Lord.
This is positivist heresy which will be common in the age of Kali-Yuga (our current age of quarrel and hypocrisy).
Through much disappointment Bob will eventually learn who is master and who is servant.
But that will help Bob to eventually see the truth in a crucible of lies.
He will suddenly recognize his constitutional position.
That is the beginning of wisdom.

So Bob may love God as some people love their pets, or their local charity.
But he has not yet grasped the identity of God, and therefore he cannot surrender as a good devotee of any faith.

To add perhaps: I doubt any of that money will reach the intended purpose of breeding red heifers or rebuilding the temple. Most of it will disappear and be pocketed en route by the demoniacs who abused Bob.
"Christian Zionism" is also a disputed term that refers to a mixture of various fundamentalist groups, most of which do not believe in the future of the state of Israel (which is a mainly secular entity). They may have a common goal of rebuilding the Temple, but the outcome they imagine is very divisive. The Christian fundamentalist section believes that it will bring about the apocalypse and the Jews will repent and convert to Christianity, or perish.
That is hardly a Zionist goal.
It's just another scam.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 


I think I am annoying you.
Am I annoying you?

Here I go again, Sometimes.
Once ya get a grip on something you fall deeper into the hole.

LOTZA LUV LOL
I am arnt I, annoying you?



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by Mividau


I am arnt I, annoying you?

We all tend to think of ourselves as "awesome", at least I do. I write what I think is "awesome" and then it gets buried with a bunch of you and JM trying to convert each other. I do feel annoyed. Is that merely my overinflated ego speaking or are you two actually missing what I write because you are distracted by each other? Hmm, judge for yourselves.



edit on 9-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


JM, how do you know 100% what GOD is leading others to?
Is it because they dont hold you're truths.
To me that is a little unfair when he judges our hearts.
The core of who we are spiritualy.

Just as I can not nor will judge you.
It is not my place to say weather you speak truths or not.
Nore is it really you're place either.
None of us truely know, none.
Once we get over our ego's and relize that we might get along alot better.

All we can truely do is follow our hearts.
As I said before, as long as it makes me a better person and a gift to others.
Then I deem it true. Because it would for me fall into the comanments Jesus gave us.
But if it makes me a twisted and selffish person or has the ability to, I dont trust it.

Is it really that wrong in you're eyes to be that way?
What I posted wasnt against any of those princable's it was about prophocy.
Which that person could have a point based on the fact GOD allows us free choice.
So maybe GOD had 2 plans depending on the choices of us.

In my mind if GOD doesnt have a plan forevery plausable outcome then we never truely
had a free choice and everything is predetermined. Atleast that is what it equates to in
my mind

LOTZA LUV
Sorry if this post seems incoherint, Kidds kept interupting me lol.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman


Only God is the supreme enjoyer, and He sends the avatars, and incarnates as He sees fit.
Not even the demi-gods can control Him.

This is what I understand as the "universal truth" to be found in all religions. The closing quote marks should be moved to the end of the sentence thus: "universal truth to be found in all religions". It is quite probable that some religion are manufactured in order to deceive and provide physical status for the "priesthood".


A servant does not play master over his Lord.
This is positivist heresy which will be common in the age of Kali-Yuga (our current age of quarrel and hypocrisy).

I'm not familiar with the label "Kali-Yuga" but the concept does seem to describe our current age quite nicely.


Most of it will disappear and be pocketed en route by the demoniacs who abused Bob.

Or recycled into further PR propaganda and lobbying efforts.


The Christian fundamentalist section believes that it will bring about the apocalypse and the Jews will repent and convert to Christianity, or perish.
That is hardly a Zionist goal.
It's just another scam.

That's the gist of it.

This age of hypocrisy you mention:

Hypocrites are actors in the classic sense. Putting on a mask to play a part in a divine drama. A human actor can play a part, then change masks, sometimes in the middle of a play, and play another part. Some may call this "conversion". If a human actor does not realize the human beneath the mask and make-up, that actor is usually deemed insane, most likely written up in every tabloid in the supermarket "_thinks he really is the character__from his last movie".

And yet, when it comes to religion, obvious insanity is overlooked. Some religious leaders may be genuinely insane, and others may be "gaming the system" for personal gain. Either way, damage is being done to all concerned.

Physical reality is still reality to me. I would be lying to claim otherwise. How people prosper or suffer physically here and now is of concern to me still. Whatever delay I may experience in reaching some higher reality I will accept. Whatever lower status that earns me, so be it.

Does that make me "insane actor" or servant whose roll includes ignorance of higher existence?
edit on 9-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Mividau


I am arnt I, annoying you?

We all tend to think of ourselves as "awesome", at least I do. I write what I think is "awesome" and then it gets buried with a bunch of you and JM trying to convert each other. I do feel annoyed. Is that merely my overinflated ego speaking or are you two actually missing what I write because you are distracted by each other? Hmm, judge for yourselves.

edit on 9-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)


I have been following what you have said or was that ignored because it came from me?
My reply that started the convo between JM and I was I replied to the person that said prophocy
was getting rewritten. When I get smacked about language translation. Because it was from the dss.

I only posted the verse from it because it was on topic with you're discussion.
When I had read the verse 3 weeks ago it didnt make sence. Why would Jesus have
an interprtor of the Law with him. There was only Jesus, right.
But what if John was suposse to be with Jesus.

But after reading what you 2 were talking about it made perfect sence.
That when prophocey gets fullfilled it may be based on our freedom of choice.
Like you're OP bob is trying to force it by our freedom of choice.
That he feels it may be ok because its GODs will anyway.

So I am sorry yoou're thread got hijacked.
But this is not the only thread this has happend to with JM.
Yours, mine and the holy spirit is my proof.

I have come on this thread to talk to you about your opinions because I respect them.
But dont i have a right when someone tells me my imput is invalid because of translation?

LOTZA LUV



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 


Just a quick question.
Do you believe that maybe what Matrayia is?
An actor on the grand scale of things.

I am still researching him, so I havent reached a conclusion.
Whats yours on Matrayia?

LOTZA LUV



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Mividau


Matrayia

I really don't care. I spent decades learning Christianity. Whatever expertise I may have in Christianity I use against Christianity ... to get to the underlying universal truth, which by definition is available to any body, and should not be obscured by or controlled by partisan factions.

Do you think I should get distracted from my mission and go looking at every claimant of avatarship that strolls down the pike?

and now I must physically rest up, so as to physically be able to do nanny duty.
edit on 9-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Mividau
 

Is it really that wrong in you're eyes to be that way?
What I posted wasn't against any of those princable's it was about prophocy.
I think you are taking this personally and I was directing nothing against what you were saying. All I meant was you need to look at things presented, without the spin people put on it when they present it (meaning the source of the document you were quoting from, and I don't mean the Essenes or whoever wrote it, or you).
I don't understand how you take it as me criticizing you and I never meant it that way.


edit on 9-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Mividau


Matrayia

I really don't care. I spent decades learning Christianity. Whatever expertise I may have in Christianity I use against Christianity ... to get to the underlying universal truth, which by definition is available to any body, and should not be obscured by or controlled by partisan factions.

Do you think I should get distracted from my mission and go looking at every claimant of avatarship that strolls down the pike?



I apologize, I was just asking if this was on of the people who you described.
I am honestly trying to wrap my head around what I thought I knew was truth.
Since you have devoted so much of you're life to getting to the truth. I greatly
respected you're thoughts on such things.
I apologize for waisteing you're time

LOTZA LUV and peace to you



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 

I didn't actually want to go into personal spirituality here, but rather wanted to focus on Bob, and where his original error lies.

But yes, in a way, we are all insane. We all have a false material identity in the sense that it is all temporary.
We are reincarnating every day and changing bodies, from a tiny baby to an old person.
Yet we build identities around a current situation that is already changing.

Contemporary postmodern theories actually admit that fractured identity.
It says even gender and race are simply performances that may change over time.
Our race is dependent on a social performance of past generations, and who was allowed to breed with whom.
Our gender performance must be reinforced and repeated all the time, and is filled with anxiety.
How many would really be willing to live as the opposite gender for a week?
No, we must repeat our "born" gender roles.
So yes, we are all actors who have come to believe our roles.

But what bothers Bob is that people might do the wrong things for the right reasons.
The early Buddhists understood this very well.
To paraphrase: if you meet God or Buddha on the way to enlightenment, you must surely kill Him.
Buddhism arose in India when Hinduism was very corrupt, and religion caused much suffering.
So initially it said belief in God was a personal matter, but it was not a requirement of its path, because so many people lie about God, that you may meet a false version of God on your path, and that will entangle you in material problems further.
I think they had a good point, but it was cautionary rather than true.
That might help Bob though.

I still hold an Enlightenment hope for humanity.
To paraphrase Maya Angelou and CS Lewis:
Angelou said: "If you know better, you do better".
So we could try and tell Bob that he is wrong, and wasting his money.
CS Lewis suggested that there is only a fine line between the man who believes himself to be better, and the man who acts better.
So, if Bob could be held to a higher standard, then his heart would follow his behavior.


edit on 9-8-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


I have never thought of anything in quite that way.
I think because of you're post I may understand why some spiritual people
believe that the flesh is an evil trap.

So thank you very much for opening my mind

LOTZA LUV



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by Mividau


I have come on this thread to talk to you about your opinions because I respect them.
But dont i have a right when someone tells me my imput is invalid because of translation?

Read back over some of the discussion between you and JM, compare how much is substance and how much is merely self-justification to the other and "well I don't mean you personally"

Nobody here needs justification, although you will notice that I have done it myself too. I find it embarrassing, so shamefacedly I carry on.
At least be aware of it, and don't blame it all on JM. ...and yet you may grumble "... why's it all on me, then? How come JM isn't getting scolded?"

That's simple: you're the one who asked.



posted on Aug, 9 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 


LOL, I get it then dont care huh?? (kidding btw)
When I relized you were upset I emailed him and asked him
to keep it to a u2u outta respect to you.

Yes it may have gotten a bit outta control.
And I do apologize that it happend on you're thread.
Now back to you're awsomeness lol

LOTZA LUV
Wasnt being a smart butt, when embarassed i laugh sorry/



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