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Was there time before the universe?

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posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 01:53 PM
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Before the Universe existed, what was there? Was it just "nothing"? It's hard to imagine nothing, because every time I try, I always imagine a big empty space, which is something.

What about time? How did time come to be? What did god do before the universe was there? I'm sure he didn't just sit around.... Right?

All this stuff really gets me thinking, and in the end, I just come back to where I started. What are everyones' thoughts on this?




posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 02:00 PM
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I will give you my initial thought. Time is referred to as the fourth dimension although it has no dimension, time is a function of space. I dont think you can separate the two, So without the fabric of space you can have no time. You will often hear the word space-time because of the nature of the relationship.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 02:07 PM
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It's like the tree falling in the forest question, there is no real way to answer the question with the information(or lack of) we now know.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 02:08 PM
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I don't think anyone has the real answer.

However, I think that time DID exist. There was just no way to percieve it,
nothing was relative to anything else. Maybe it was incrementing at an unmeasurable rate.

IF there are multiple universes, I would say that time most certainly existed..



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 02:12 PM
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If something has a beginning and passes through change...there is "time" as we know it......as a measurement



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 02:18 PM
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I think this is a question that we all wonder about, and I'm not sure if it's something we will find an answer to.

I asked exactly the same question in this thread a while back

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Originally posted by pantha
can anyone here comprehend what nothing really is? I'm just sitting here thinking about the creation of the universe and that at some point there must have been nothing in the time before the big bang and before whatever caused it.
logically everything has a begining but how can something come from nothing in the first place?
Every time I try to think about what nothing really is I keep imagining a physical nothing if that makes sence. For example if the nothing before time was just a vaccume then my mind is compelled to picture it within a space. Kind of like space as we know it but without stars and galaxies in it.But that is still in my mind a physical place.why is it so hard to comprehend?


I'm not even going to think about this thread anymore because the whole thing put my head in a spin last time.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by hallucinated
Before the Universe existed, what was there? Was it just "nothing"? It's hard to imagine nothing, because every time I try, I always imagine a big empty space, which is something.

What about time? How did time come to be? What did god do before the universe was there? I'm sure he didn't just sit around.... Right?

All this stuff really gets me thinking, and in the end, I just come back to where I started. What are everyones' thoughts on this?





I will give you my initial thought. Time is referred to as the fourth dimension although it has no dimension, time is a function of space. I dont think you can separate the two, So without the fabric of space you can have no time. You will often hear the word space-time because of the nature of the relationship.


This is the best answer. The Big Bang Theory posits that "in the beginning," there was an unimaginably dense singularity that contained all matter in the universe. At the moment of the Big Bang this matter began to be dispersed, not through out the universe, which implies a pre-existing space. As the singularity is dispersed, space is created. Space is that which separates matter. When it is said that the universe is expanding, it means that the space between galaxies is expanding.

Einstein posited that matter and energy are equal and so are space and time. Not only that, but all measurments are relative to the position of the observer, time slows down as the speed of light is approached, and gravity is the effect of large masses (actually any mass) warping time and space.

Einstein used what he called thought experiments to come up with his theory and then sat down to work out the mathematics. It sound bizarre, but he revolutionized the world.

Oh, did I forget to mention quantum mechanics and Superstring theory? These should keep you busy for a while.



[edit on 04/8/17 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott


This is the best answer. The Big Bang Theory posits that "in the beginning," there was an unimaginably dense singularity that contained all matter in the universe. At the moment of the Big Bang this matter began to be dispersed, not through out the universe, which implies a pre-existing space. As the singularity is dispersed, space is created. Space is that which separates matter. When it is said that the universe is expanding, it means that the space between galaxies is expanding.



which brings us to a problem ---

if this point of all matter was sitting happy for eternity before it exploded - there must have been an external force applied to it to make it unstable

now this is starting to go into the realm of a creator

the mind boggles



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:13 PM
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It seems pretty simple to me...

It expands then it contracts, when it contracts it contracts to a point at which another "big bang" occurs.

It's a cycle - all things are cycles so i could imagine that we are part of one big cycle.

but then u could say when did the cycle begin?


i dont think it did "start"

thats my view anyway.



but here's another

i read that even true "Nothing" can have fluxiations
these fluxuations rippled and reinforced one another,
getting stronger and stronger somehow becomming so intense
(on a really tiny scale)
that it kind of a vibration creating heat or somthing like that
and it started from there.

really crazy stuff.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:13 PM
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if this point of all matter was sitting happy for eternity before it exploded - there must have been an external force applied to it to make it unstable


It's called critical mass. The primordial "elements" coalesced and eventually built up a reactive mass and viola! Big bang.


[edit on 17-8-2004 by Der Kapitan]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by TrentReznor
It's a cycle - all things are cycles so i could imagine that we are part of one big cycle.

but then u could say when did the cycle begin?


Funny you should mention a cycle. I have had this thought for some time now, look at my thread entitled the Big Bang Cycle?. I think you would enjoy the read.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by Der Kapitan



if this point of all matter was sitting happy for eternity before it exploded - there must have been an external force applied to it to make it unstable


It's called critical mass. The primordial "elements" coalesced and eventually built up a reactive and viola! Big bang.


yeah but it was a singularity - all the matter of the universe with all the space in the middle removed and concentrated to a single point - it couldnt move about to create a critical mass as you say because then there would have had to be some sort of space inbetween the elements so they could actually move and build up energy

unless i am missing the whole point here - should i go away and do a degree in astro physics and then come back ?



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:24 PM
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unless i am missing the whole point here - should i go away and do a degree in astro physics and then come back ?


No,no,no- You made a good point, maybe I need to re-read my physics stuff.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:35 PM
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There just cannot be matter without matter. So in the "beginning" there was something, not just nothing.

I believe that we are all living on an atom that is part of a molecule that makes up one bigger being. For all we know, we could be dust on a piece of furniture.

The universe is too large to just say that there was one instance that created light, life, and everything. If the big bang does cycle, where did the original matter come from?

Space exists... just move your hand, it moves through space and matter.

If time is the 4th dimension and we just exist in a spectrum of time and cannot see, touch or fathom the other worlds and universes in the 4th dimension we are still stuck with the question of what came first, the chicken or the egg.

I think that we can live with both creation and darwin theories. There is evolution of various species on earth and think that we can say that conclusivley. I also think that there was something in the beginning and that the universe was created, either by a being, set of beings or by an explosion of space junk.

So there was no beginning. There is no end. Time doesn't really exist, we just assume that it does.

Life is like this (and if your religious and this offends you, sorry)... you are the center of your own universe. Without you living, you would never know that the world existed, that other people existed, that the universe or theory of god or gods exist. So the entire world revolves around you, because if you weren't alive you would not perceive the world as existing, you would not realize that time and your kitty cat could exist in the same plane... therefore you are the center of the world and the universe.

And when you die, your universe dies. And if you believe in the afterlife or reincarnation, your new universe begins. "Big Bang Cycle"

So there is matter, and it existed in the beginning. We just don't know what the beginning is.

Argh... this topic makes me dizzy.

BTW> Great Post!

[edit on 17-8-2004 by jimbolux1]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:41 PM
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also

ever heard the term

"Energy can not be created nor destroyed"

unless ur retarded
this should set alarms ringing

proving that the universe has always been here.


its just sooooooo simple. lol



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:55 PM
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Hmmm, only one problem with what you just stated, Energy cannot be created or destroyed, correct, however it can change forms. The universite may not have always existed, but some form of it was just in another form.

However back to the time question, I know its classed as the 4th dimension, however, I think it was a demension of the universe, wouldnt it be abided to the same rules and laws that the universe follows.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by TrentReznor
also

ever heard the term

"Energy can not be created nor destroyed"

unless ur retarded
this should set alarms ringing

proving that the universe has always been here.


its just sooooooo simple. lol


Then, the answer to the original post is simple. No. There was no time before time because time didn't exist. Time exists only in the human language. It's just a word with a dictionary definition. It's all relative.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:58 PM
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we are still stuck with the question of what came first, the chicken or the egg.


lol thats another easy one.

THE CHICKEN

an egg producing animal got funky with an non egg producing animal
crating the first chicken witch came out of the non egg producing female
this chicken carries the genes from the egg producing male.
(witch is extinct now)


any other "unsolvable answers " need solving

just ask



p.s. mpeake

boondock saints rock!!!

[edit on 17-8-2004 by TrentReznor]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 04:02 PM
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egg producing male.?

WTF was i thinking



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by TrentReznor


we are still stuck with the question of what came first, the chicken or the egg.


lol thats another easy one.

THE CHICKEN

an egg producing animal got funky with an non egg producing animal
crating the first chicken witch came out of the non egg producing female
this chicken carries the genes from the egg producing male.
(witch is extinct now)


any other "unsolvable answers " need solving

just ask



p.s. mpeake

boondock saints rock!!!

[edit on 17-8-2004 by TrentReznor]


You know it!!! I saw your post in the other thread too
It's probably my fav movie of all time. "You guys need to be in every city" - Rocco



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