Massive Riot In Tottenham London

Originally posted by AnonymousFem
reply to post by Cythraul

 

So if they were born here and lived here all of their lives, what does that make them? Not British or English oh please get a clue. Were were you born and brought up? If your not being racist o r being a bigot then you have a lot to prove.

edit on 7-8-2011 by AnonymousFem because: (no reason given)

It's not racist it's fact. Please refer to my post earlier in this thread. And if you intend on taking the ethnic identity away from an entire people, then it most certainly you who is the racist.

Call them British, and then let's get on with the thread without the need to discuss race.

reply to post by e11888


Really shows the quality of news in our system, huh?

Not Native English no, but english of course, some people wouldn't want to go that far tho unfortunately


Second

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR


People are enraged to a point where anything can be used as a spark, so this is not about jumping to conclusions, whether we know anything about the shooting or not, people or pissed at the government and the government's puppet force, which is the police.

Expect more incidents like this, this is just how it begins, I'm not gonna tell you what begins, because you all know.

Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by AnonymousFem
reply to post by Cythraul

 

So if they were born here and lived here all of their lives, what does that make them? Not British or English oh please get a clue. Were were you born and brought up? If your not being racist o r being a bigot then you have a lot to prove.

edit on 7-8-2011 by AnonymousFem because: (no reason given)

It's not racist it's fact. Please refer to my post earlier in this thread. And if you intend on taking the ethnic identity away from an entire people, then it most certainly you who is the racist.

Call them British, and then let's get on with the thread without the need to discuss race.

It's not a fact. It's only a fact if you pretend nationality doesn't exist.

You want English to be exclusively some ethnic notion, and dismiss the notion of English as a nationality - Even though it's a fact that England is a nation, and thus those born in England are English and part of the same nation state as you.

You'd have a better argument if you recognised English as both a racial group and a nationality; Even though I'd dispute English as being a set racial group.

reply to post by NadaCambia

Actually, people in England are legally citizens of Britain and subject to the laws of the British Government. Therefore Englishness has no relevance, meaning or significance to someone who doesn't have English ancestry. There is no need for immigrants or those of recent immigrant stock to identify themselves as 'English', other than to undermine the identity of an entire ethnic group.

And yes, it is a fact. English = Englisc = Anglisc = the people who descend from the Angles and other similar tribes. It is an etymological, historic and genetic fact that the English are an ethnic group. It doesn't matter how much you don't want that to be the case, it is. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Cythraul
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

Actually, people in England are legally citizens of Britain and subject to the laws of the British Government. Therefore Englishness has no relevance, meaning or significance to someone who doesn't have English ancestry. There is no need for immigrants or those of recent immigrant stock to identify themselves as 'English', other than to undermine the identity of an entire ethnic group.

And yes, it is a fact. English = Englisc = Anglisc = the people who descend from the Angles and other similar tribes. It is an etymological, historic and genetic fact that the English are an ethnic group. It doesn't matter how much you don't want that to be the case, it is. Deal with it.

So... what if a white immigrant came from, say, Canada or the US. Would you say "He's NOT English, he's a white Britt!"

I see what you are saying by wishing that "English" was an ethnicity but it's also a nationality. Look at China. Being Chinese is an ethnicity. However, if I moved there and became a citizen, I would be Chinese too. Because that's my new nationality.

reply to post by Cuervo



In my eyes, looking at the videos and what not. Looked like some people where there for a reason, some people decided to turn up for trouble, and it then escalated into smashing Carpet Wrights windows in and then stealing some Nike caps from JD Sports.

The pure fact of the matter is, shoot at a policemen, don't expect to be able to tell the tale. As soon as that finger rests on the trigger, the police consider taking you out if you're a threat. The AR units in the UK are highly trained Police Officers, they take taking someones life very seriously. Riots against the police for THAT reason is absurd, an excuse and damn right reinforcing the fact the police should have more power against violence. Throwing petrol bombs, bottles, rocks, all sorts of potentially lethal missiles should warrant armed responses. People could disagree with that by saying "they don't have guns"; but destroying hundreds of thousands, if not millions of pounds worth of property, burning police cars (which despite their Vauxhaul badges aren't cheap), buses etc is the behavior of mindless louts, who quite frankly know that they can get away with it.


The bitter thing is, they can't check if anyone has died in the flats above the shops because they are still on fire....! Hopefully no one will be.

Makes me angry that this country rests on its moral boundaries when thuggish gang members are free to do what they want, then cause a lot of trouble when it goes completely out of hand.

reply to post by Cuervo

I'm not really sure what you want from me. It doesn't really matter what you, I or anyone else thinks - it is what it is. I don't require that you or anyone else see the matter of ethnic identity the way I do, and as much as you'd like to think you can make people see the issue from a politically correct perspective, you can't. I daresay the majority of Chinese would have a problem with you identifying yourself as Chinese, because most ethnic groups in the world value their unique identity. It's human nature. As I said, people who live in England are not citizens of England, they are officially citizens of Britain. So not even the British State regards anyone who lives in England as 'English', but rather 'British'. So no, you do not automatically become English by settling or being born in England; it's deeper than that. Ethnic identity is not changeable - you're born with it, you live with it and be proud of it whatever it may be.

This thread seems to have been derailed. I'll say no more on the issue of ethnic identity, and would rather get back to the topic at hand.

reply to post by Cythraul


You're right, I don't understand and we should get back on track (even though ethnic identity seems to be dominate theme with these riots).

I would like to explain quickly why Americans might not see eye-to-eye with that, though. You see, our nation is a mutt nation, and there is no "American" ethnic group. As you cleverly put it earlier in the thread, you wouldn't come here and call yourself a Navajo. Because of that, many of us have a hard time linking nationality and ethnicity together. I'm not apologizing for it as I think it's one of our most endearing qualities, but I just wanted to shed a little light so you aren't incensed when we simply don't get it.

reply to post by Cuervo

That's ok - I understand. I know several Americans who firmly identify themselves as 'Englisc' because they have discovered their ancestors to be predominantly from England. But I agree, for the most part Americans are just American, and that's why White Nationalism/Supremacy is predominantly an American thing, because being "white", "black" or "Hispanic" is as specific an identity as many Americans can muster. In Europe people aren't proud to be "white", but rather of being specifically "English", "French", "Italian", "Polish" etc.

Anyway, back to the thread...

I cant stand the police but the guy shot at them and nearly killed one of them so the police returned fire.

He deserved to die and the morons were not protesting, they just saw it as an excuse to pick up free electrical goods by looting shops.

Originally posted by AnonymousFem
reply to post by tom.farnhill

 

Where is the proof. There is no proof he used a gun. It is all media hype and speculation.

Id say the bullet lodged in a police radio and a non police gun recovered in the car is more than enough proof to say he fired at them.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
Because only someone who's lived a sheltered life would come to be of the opinion that white people would react differently. I don't believe you're familiar with the white working class at all, from that comment. That's why I think you must be Middle Class, to make a claim that's objectively incorrect - As I can show you with evidence, if you'd like?

i'm working class and i think your posts are apologist tripe. there is a massive problem with non integration to many immigrants stick togeter and form crime gangs and seem to get away with allot more the the english in regards to violent crime.

reply to post by AnonymousFem


i take it that you have information contrary to what is being reported ?
or maybe you was there.

reply to post by Flyer


I have just heard on Sky news that forensic reports say that the bullet that lodged in the policeman's radio was actually a police-issue bullet, so the plot thickens!

Roy.

I am horrified by the attitudes of some of the people in this thread.

Saying that people who were born, brought up and who live in England are not English because they are not white it right out the the National Front "How to be a racist" handbook.

Saying that the majority of rioters were not English is denialist blind ignorance.

Condoning any type of behaviours which leaves the magnificent, great city of London looking like this:



is rediculous!

I condemn the rioters and I do not support their cause. I do not think for a minute they were either informed enough, or intelligent enough to hold the well rounded opinions and views of some of the posters on this thread who seek to justify their actions.

Originally posted by Shamatt
Saying that people who were born, brought up and who live in England are not English because they are not white

It’s not because they’re not “white”, it’s because they don’t have predominantly English ancestry. A Polish person who is white is no more English than a “brown” person. Therefore, the facts I’ve stated are NOT racist. Call me an “ancestralist” if you like. You may be horrified by my views, but my views are based on fact whereas yours are based on a politically correct warping of reality. Feel free to call immigrants and their descendents “British” – why is that not good enough for you? Please answer me that. Perhaps you’d also like to tell me what’s so positive about forever destroying the identity of a people who have existed for 1500 years?

I know I said I wasn’t going to carry on with this discussion, but I’m sick of do-gooders jumping on their high horses when all they’re actually doing is using politically correct dogma to destroy something ancient and sacred.

reply to post by Cythraul



We have been humans for 200,000 years and you think that because a few ancestors were born in a certain bit of land you think you own it.

You are not right. You do not state fact - you state your twisted opinion. I am of course happy to call all people in our great land British. But you sir are denying millions of English people, and that is wrong.

Take Australia as an example. What would you call a white Australian whos great great grandparents mooved here from Itally? Italian? No - They are Australian, and everyone would agree with that. So why is it not the same in the UK?

You should stop being so prpoud and protective of "English" as being a sacred all white AngloSaxon exclusive creed. What about the English who lived on Blighty's beautifull shores before they arrived? If you and your family and your parents and their parents were born in England, you are English. End of. Legally, morally and ethically English. Stop being so precious!

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR


This is another WTF moment!! I'm in Australia and the news whilst publishing details of event is publishing this differently than say... the riots throughout various countries of the middle east. Having never been to the UK just wondering what your thoughts are as to why?