Massive Riot In Tottenham London

I think hes talking about in cases where the police was out of order, not just mindless violence, i don't think anybody supports that


As i also stated above, i was going to dig alittle deeper before passing a right or wrong judgement, and yes it does appear this is retaliation for a gang member who was shot but was shot in self defence, perfectly reasonable,

BBC live footage mentioned CO19, and the flying squad, being the ones who shot him while he was in a cab . That gives a wide old scope for what this is really about.

Some of the most dangerous work undertaken by the Flying Squad, is "Pavement Ambush", where police ambush armed robbers during the offence.

still officially known as the Flying Squad, they are often referred to by the nicknames the "Heavy Mob" or "the Sweeney", which is a shortened version of the rhyming slang, Sweeney Todd.[1]

This was the era in which the squad's close ties with the criminal fraternity, which had always been a necessary part of its strategy, were being exposed to public criticism. A number of scandals involving bribery and corruption were revealed, and on 7 July 1977, the squad's commander, Detective Chief Superintendent Kenneth Drury, was convicted on five counts of corruption and jailed for eight years. Twelve other officers were also convicted and many more resigned. These and other scandals led to a massive internal investigation by the Dorset Constabulary into the Metropolitan Police Service and the City of London Police, codenamed Operation Countryman.[4]

]wiki flying squad

It's not the first time the police have shot someone in the UK. It's not the first time the police have killed the person they've shot. Usually, people sue the police or, as happened in this case, the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) investigates the shooting to determine its justification and legality. This is one of the few times (in fact, the only time I know of) that a riot has followed a police shooting of a suspected criminal; and it's not as though the British police are not successfully prosecuted when they act illegally.

Hundreds of residents gathered to watch the unrest and there several were reports of attacks on bystanders. At one point rioters were seen beating up a man attempting to take film footage of the scene.

- The Guardian

In my opinion, protesters don't beat-up by-standers and loot businesses to make a point against the actions of the police.I think we'll find a few rogue elements hijacked the original protest calling for a police investigation and turned it into a riot for their own purposes i.e stealing.

This is so wrong!

People: DO you really think this is the right way to deal with anything?

We have people saying how well the people of London have responded by rioting - people saying the US should riot more because of the injustices there.

Q) Do we all beleive here that civil unrest is the best way to protest police action? That violence and destruction are the answer?

Did you read the bit that said one guy got beaten up for taking video?
Did you read the bit that said people were taking shopping trollies full of stuff while looting?

Do you really think this is the right way to behave, just becasue some low life got shot? Come on. And even if it WAS a complete lie by the police (It has happened before) this action would STILL BE UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!

So lets quell these stupid macho statements supporting violence on our streets. Lets stop supporting people who throw petrol bombs at our police officers. (People like you and me with wifes, children..)
Lets stop supporting people who set fire to shops, destroying businessing of innocent people (And in the midddle of a recession too).

Where has all the love gone?


ETA: For those in the US saying how the English protest after a shooting and Americans don'e. Have you forgotten the riots after the Rodny King beatings were aired? (I hope I rememberd the right name there LOL)

reply to post by Shamatt

It's time to wake up not to give up, not anymore!

Long time lurker.. first time poster here.

Have posted this in the other topics covering tottenham, but feel it's important, and worth repeating..

I think the issue is that his death brought attention to Operation Trident. Which is a Met operation to investigate crime specifically within the black community.
Prior to this, The mans cousin was stabbed and killed in a night club, in March. He had been behaving oddly since then, with marked paranoia.
Reports by witnesses suggest, that the guy had surrendered and put down his gun before he was shot twice by a police officer, equipped with a Heckler & Koch MP5 carbine.

Don't get me wrong, he deserved to be arrested. I'm just not sure he deserved to be shot twice after he surrendered his weapon.

reply to post by Cuervo


Not my fault ATS screws it up!!!

reply to post by Shamatt


Well the police are corrupt, oh its being investigated, we all know what a whitewash that will be. and these youths are being stopped all the time, just because they look suspicious and are searched and asked for ID for no reasons what so ever, on top of that, with all these cuts which are happening in the UK right now,. then the shooting of this individual, It was already a time bomb ready to go off.

And with the police refusing to come out and speak to the protesters in the first place added to that time bomb. This will only get worse if they dont sort it out.

Originally posted by Cuervo
Your police slips up and kills a man an you guys go nuts on the police! Hats off to you English.

The majority of the rioters/looters, from what I can see in photos, were NOT English!

An important distinction. Different ethnic groups deal with perceived wrongdoings to their communities different ways.

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR


The question here is : Did Duggan actually fire his gun?

If he did then the Police were entitled to shoot back!! if he didn't fire his gun then i'd say the Police were wrong to shoot to kill!! Shoot to injure maybe if Duggan was waving his gun about...

Someone posted on the first page that a bullet was found lodged in the Police Car so looks like Duggan did fire his gun unless that was put there afterwoods!!

When will these morons learn that Rioting is not an effective way to achieve social justice? All it will result in is getting people arrested, harming innocent people and destroying their property, and costing taxpayers money for the cleanup!

Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by Cuervo
Your police slips up and kills a man an you guys go nuts on the police! Hats off to you English.

The majority of the rioters/looters, from what I can see in photos, were NOT English!

An important distinction. Different ethnic groups deal with perceived wrongdoings to their communities different ways.

Do you not count Black people as English, people like Ian Wright, Ashley Cole, Emile Heskey. Are they not English?

I'm not sure what videos everyone else watched but given the ethnic make up of the area you're being deceptive to suggest the turn out was slanted in race.

Of course most people are going to be non-white when most the area is non-white, that's a given. However, there were plenty of white and jewish people present.

You can tell from the thread which people are familiar with Tottenham and which people aren't. A hugely multi-ethnic area with a huge amount of non-whites and therefore that's reflected in the turnout.

When the Irish fight the police do black people come out and say "Herp derp derp, no surprise that it's all white people fighting the police, where are the Africans?"

No, because that would be stupid, as obviously it's just a reflection of area demographics. But I suppose logic and reason aren't a good fit with racism.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
No, because that would be stupid, as obviously it's just a reflection of area demographics. But I suppose logic and reason aren't a good fit with racism.

It's not hard to see a pattern emerging across England with riots and general violence being committed by mainly ethnic minorities and immigrants. The confirmation of certain facts - while they may not be PC - is not Racism.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


The majority of the west Indian community were born here, they have as much right to be here as you.

Although I despise......and I do mean despise..... abuse of police power this riot was not a worthy cause. It would have been worthy if the 'victim' (using the word loosely) would have been innocent of being a scum bag rooting tooting shooting gang member. I have no problem with the police offing all of these scumbag gangs who cause chaos for innocents on the streets.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

How many Irish people go to areas with predominantly Black populations and cause riots there?

edit on 7/8/2011 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)

But you say that as if to suggest these people thought "Lets go to the white people area". That doesn't hold true because if that were the motive of these non-whites then why did we see an abundance of white people walking freely with the rioters and criminals.

Wouldn't these black racists targeting white areas have, you know, attacked white people?

Why do Irish people come to predominately English areas and cause crime and start riots? Herp derp

reply to post by NadaCambia


I didn't mean to imply that the Riots were racially motivated in the sense that White people were the target. Not sure where you got that from, but I changed my reply to reflect what I did mean more clearly anyway.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

I didn't mean to imply that the Riots were racially motivated in the sense that White people were the target. Not sure where you got that from, but I changed my reply to reflect what I did mean more clearly anyway.

I apologise but I don't see what you were getting at with your original message, maybe an error in comprehension on my part.

In response to your edit, you again seem to be suggesting racial motivation. Are most riots and trouble over-represented by people who aren't white? Yes, that's probably fair and I don't think many would dispute that. But then is this because of their race, or is it because most "ethnic" people are in poverty.

When you make the statements you make I don't think it's fair to not add some context. Because just making the statement has certain implications without depth or explanation.

You could just as easily say "Everyone can see the trend that most people involved in riots and this sort of trouble are working class". This is a class issue. There's a reason affluent "ethnic" people aren't out in the streets behaving in the same way, with the same grievances and anger.

I could quite easily make a very sound case against Irish and especially Scottish communities in the North of England causing massive trouble, and being criminals and violent thugs. I could, but it wouldn't be fair without context. That context being most these Irish and Scottish communities are in poverty, and the issue is poverty, and with or without these people the "Proper English" working class would behave in much the same way.

And they of course do. Look at Scotland, much more dangerous than most non-white areas of England. White chavs and hoodlums are an absolute menace in Scotland.

I mention this to highlight that it's everything to do with poverty and social deprivation and nothing to do with race or religion.

So your statement that it's one group who do this, it's true but matters nothing. And I'm suspicious as to why you'd make such statements. What's the purpose?

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by NadaCambia
No, because that would be stupid, as obviously it's just a reflection of area demographics. But I suppose logic and reason aren't a good fit with racism.

It's not hard to see a pattern emerging across England with riots and general violence being committed by mainly ethnic minorities and immigrants. The confirmation of certain facts - while they may not be PC - is not Racism.

edit on 7/8/2011 by Dark Ghost because: quoted section I was responding to and clarified post

it is if your conclusion is derived from pre-conceptions rather than hard evidence. I don't believe a majority of riots in recent times have been perpetrated by ethnic minorities. I'm struggling to think of any even. The Brixton riots had a large African-Carribean contingent, but the discontent was mostly caused by social neglect under Conservative leadership rather than anything race-based and simply reflected the racial makeup of the area. The same would have happened in a similarly-neglected populace of any demographic, and has happened before.

And "general violence"? That's just ridiculous. What makes you think that?