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31 US special forces die in chopper crash

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posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Yes, it appears though to be fully intact and sitting on a wall?
So, that can not be a photo of the actual helo?


Its possible it is the helicopter. That type of helo is fairly large, and we cant see the front of the aircraft. Its also dependant on what type of sam was used.




posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:00 AM
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I'm not an engineer but we are supposedly technically superior and we still can't build airplanes/jets/helicopters that can withstand a missile strike and keep flying. Maybe go down after two or three dozen but not one or two. Are these airplanes/jets/helicopters just awarded to lowest bidder with minimum specifications? Wouldn't it be worth a few million more to make them almost invincible and save some military lives?

I mean just look at civilian airplanes. A flock of birds, lightening strike, ice or rupture of skin will bring one down. It's almost like they are flying tissue paper. How much would skin/wing/control surface/pitot tube heaters add to cost of a plane that flies so high in the atmosphere where icing can occur.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 

Me too dont support useless actions of these wars , but really what a waste of special trained forces .

It would be good to get the real story . The chopper was proberly interfered with or anything really .



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:11 AM
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Very sad news, my heart goes out to the families affected by this.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:11 AM
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As flightcrew on 53's I have never "combat loaded" that many at one time before.
Sounds like someone isn't telling the whole story. 38 combat loaded down, combined with bullet proof matting,crew weapons and say maybe 1600 rnds.... That's heavy.

I would believe 2 helicopters crashing together before I'd think anyone was this irresponsible.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:16 AM
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reply to post by Kliskey
 


I guess if it was one of those big clumsy helicopters , then its understandable how it would come down in that terrain.

Too big and bluky and i bet movability is really hard .To easy a target



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by Steve8511
As flightcrew on 53's I have never "combat loaded" that many at one time before.
Sounds like someone isn't telling the whole story. 38 combat loaded down, combined with bullet proof matting,crew weapons and say maybe 1600 rnds.... That's heavy.

I would believe 2 helicopters crashing together before I'd think anyone was this irresponsible.


There is one more issue the weather. With a load like this it must have been quite windy.
In 2001 we had cases in Afghanistan when the copper couldn't pick us up because of the lack of wind.

A chinook loaded with fuel demands the right weather conditions to land at ground level to pick up a heavy load.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by Anusuia
reply to post by Kliskey
 


I guess if it was one of those big clumsy helicopters , then its understandable how it would come down in that terrain.

Too big and bluky and i bet movability is really hard .To easy a target


Oh you're wrong on that. A CH-53 is one of the fastest helicopters we have and it so powerful it can do almost everything. Big I'll give you but clumsy its not.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:22 AM
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R.I.P



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:31 AM
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What a shame
it doesn't sound like we're being told everything though, for one that's a lot of eggs in one basket, all those special forces soliders in one pretty heavy laden helicopter.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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Well the Americans and as well as all who have ever gone into Afghanistan, have found the terrain and environment really bad for heli copters and equiptment and until it is confirmed which actual type it was there is a small chance it was a Russian made copter due to the following:


US to buy Russian helicopters
Russian arms export company Rosoboronexport has signed an agreement worth 300 million dollar contract with the Defense Department to supply 21 units of helicopter Mil Mi-17 multirole to Afghanistan for use in the US-led military operations.
“This is the first major contract signed with Russia that the U.S. Defense Department,” said Sergei Prikhodko, an aide to the foreign policy Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, RIA Novosti news agency reported on Saturday, yesterday (28 / 5).
News Essentials

However these Russian copters have been in use already for some time:


The US has already spent $648 million on 31 civilian M-17s which it customised for military use in Afghanistan, primarily to transport troops and equipment.
Telegraph


Well is there a sharing of knowledge of those systems with the ISA? Taliban? Cold war proxy still going on?

Kind Regards,

Elf



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by buni11687
 


chinook, slow and big.


we won't hear about the retaliation.



Actually thats a popular misconception. Its big but its not slow compared to any standard cargo helicopter you name to mention (blackhawk, merlin, s-92, puma). If you look up the maximum speeds you'll see what I mean.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Is this an Retaliation from him, Or for the Pakistanis re Osama Raid?

Doubtful. A blatant attack, if they were capable of actually launching one, would be all too obvious. The Afghans have no "intelligence services" to speak of and the Pakistani's ISI is crude at best. Contrary to media hype, the remaining culprits, "Taliban, insurgents", tribesmen etc. are much too rudimentary.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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Mu question would be. were was its escorts. They have Apache helicopters there dont they.

So why was there none of those covering their backsides.

Condolences to the families and loved one of these soldiers whom died.

I know from previous news footage, that when ever a British Chinook went out on operations it was escorted by 2 Apache helicopters in case it was attacked. So where were they?
edit on 6-8-2011 by AnonymousFem because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by gladtobehere
The Afghans have no "intelligence services" to speak of and the Pakistani's ISI is crude at best. Contrary to media hype, the remaining culprits, "Taliban, insurgents", tribesmen etc. are much too rudimentary.


Excuse me the ISI is rudimentary?

It certainly may be full of leaks, islamic fundementalists and more dodgy than the CIA but rudimentary it CERTAINLY is not!


The ISI has become a state within a state, answerable neither to the leadership of the army, nor to the President or the Prime Minister. The result is there has been no real supervision of the ISI, and corruption, narcotics, and big money have all come into play, further complicating the political scenario. Drug money was used by ISI to finance not only the Afghanistan war, but also the proxy war against India in Punjab and Kashmir.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee deals with all problems bearing on the military aspects of state security and is charged with integrating and coordinating the three services. Affiliated with the committee are the offices of the engineer in chief, the director general of medical service, the Director of Inter-Services Public Relations, and the Director of Inter-Services Intelligence.

Staffed by hundreds of civilian and military officers, and thousands of other workers, the agency's headquarters is located in Islamabad. The ISI reportedly has a total of about 10,000 officers and staff members, a number which does not include informants and assets. It is reportedly organized into between six and eight divisions:
Global Security

Interestingly like all major such like organisations in the world they are very active on Blogs and message boards, in cyberspace Know what I mean?


In addition any operations in this area would be soo easy for them compared to what they have been up to in the swat valley, India etc.


The Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence is of particular importance at the joint services level. The directorate's importance derives from the fact that the agency is charged with managing covert operations outside of Pakistan -- whether in Afghanistan, Kashmir, or farther afield. The ISI supplies weapons, training, advice and planning assistance to terrorists in Punjab and Kashmir, as well as the separatist movements in the Northeast frontier areas of India.


Strange what you state is an EXACT oppsoite of the truth, like I said they are very very active on these boards like the Chinese, I have ousted at least 3 of them so far, Know what I mean?


They pay well don't they?

Sources?


Its success in achieving its goal without leading to a full scale invasion of Pakistan by the Soviets is a feat unmatched by any other through out the intelligence world. KGB, The best of its time, failed to counter ISI and protect Soviet interests in Central Asia. This GOLD MEDAL makes it rank higher than Mossad. It has had 0 double agents or Defectors through out its history, considering that in light of the whole war campaign it carried out from money earned by selling drugs bought from the very people it was bleeding, The Soviets. It has protected its Nuclear Weapons since formed and it has foiled Indian attempts to attain ultimate supremacy in the South-Asian theatres through internal destabilization of India. It is above All laws in its host country Pakistan ‘A State, with in a State’. Its policies are made ‘outside’ of all other institutions with the exception of The Army. Its personnel have never been caught on camera. Its is believed to have the highest number of agents worldwide, close to 10,000. The most striking thing is that its one of the least funded Intelligence agency out of the top 10 and still the strongest.
ISI no1 On Smashing Lists for agencies in world

Really think they couldn't just pop a couple of hours hour across the border, (if you can even call that area a border very vague lines... or so to a place where they are supported by like minded Islamiscists? and do this?

Strange as what is known which will be a minimal amount of actual operations, they have operated in the following countries and SUCCEEDED

ISRAEL (know ANY other agency that's outdone Mossad? I never have heard of such a thing!

USA (yep operates and recently!)

FRANCE

IRAN (no one else in the world can get in there!)

Etc ETc and as to Afghanistan this apparently according to you ragtag like crowd have been proven to do this sort of thing


(2010) A new report by the London School of Economics (LSE) claimed to provide the most concrete evidence yet that the ISI is providing funding, training and sanctuary to the Taliban insurgency on a scale much larger than previously thought. The report's author Matt Waldman spoke to nine Taliban field commanders in Afghanistan and concluded that Pakistan's relationship with the insurgents ran far deeper than previously realised. Some of those interviewed suggested that the organization even attended meetings of the Taliban's supreme council, the Quetta Shura.[14][15][16] A spokesman for the Pakistani military dismissed the report, describing it as "malicious".[17][18][19] General David Petraeus, commander of the US Central Command, refused to endorse this report in US congressional hearing and suggested that any contacts between ISI and extremists are for legitimate intelligence purposes, in his words “you have to have contact with bad guys to get intelligence on bad guys”.[20]
ISI Wiki

Anyhow these Afghani rebels couldn't bring down a Helicopter but managed to fly 3 jets at impossible speeds and turns into the American heartland?

So pray please tell me according to your logic and premise are you saying they couldn't do 9/11 and infact it was an inside job?

I shan't go on anymore and further as the above PROVES the exact opposite of what you are trying to suggest to readers, and also the above also just backs up my posts premise of who did may have done or had a hand in this.

On BBC news 24 13.31 stated that the Taliban are stating they have a "new capability" for shooting down aircraft, and reports unconfirmed from Washington (pentagon) stating was shot down.

Im sure it was Chinese lanterns just blocking up the turbines lol.

Kind Regards,

Elf
edit on 6-8-2011 by MischeviousElf because: Spelling Links



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 07:47 AM
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Unfortunatley, whatever shot it down,could be old U.S. made weapons,or Russian Or Chinese made weapons.

WE supplied the Taliban with weapons against Russia.

Now Russia supplies weapons TO the Taliban against U.S.

Same crap different War.

May the Soldiers Rest in Peace and we get the F out of there.

It's a Design to Fail. Period.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by niceguybob
Unfortunatley, whatever shot it down,could be old U.S. made weapons,or Russian Or Chinese made weapons.

WE supplied the Taliban with weapons against Russia.

Now Russia supplies weapons TO the Taliban against U.S.

Same crap different War.

May the Soldiers Rest in Peace and we get the F out of there.

It's a Design to Fail. Period.


Good Points.

And certainly we know Pakistan wants the US out, so does China and Russia and Iran, and Syria et al, This certainly may be this "event" could be viewed as a way to speed up the full pull out from the area.

Cold War Proxy mixed with Fundementalism, not a good mix at all.

Kind Regards,

Elf



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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My only brother has been in Afghanistan for 4 days now, for his first tour of a year. I wake up and see this thread and I start crying. I now know how the families feel when their loved ones are there.

My heartfelt sympathy goes out to the families of these soldiers, whomever they may be. I hope like hell that it wont be my family. How long does it take them to contact the families, does anybody know????

I hate all these wars, I despise our out of control government and their warmongering ways. HEY OBAMA, your campaign promise was to bring all the troops home. YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A DISGUSTING LIAR!!

And I will stop here before I say something I will surely regret.....



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by Bramble Iceshimmer
I'm not an engineer but we are supposedly technically superior and we still can't build airplanes/jets/helicopters that can withstand a missile strike and keep flying. Maybe go down after two or three dozen but not one or two. Are these airplanes/jets/helicopters just awarded to lowest bidder with minimum specifications? Wouldn't it be worth a few million more to make them almost invincible and save some military lives?

I mean just look at civilian airplanes. A flock of birds, lightening strike, ice or rupture of skin will bring one down. It's almost like they are flying tissue paper. How much would skin/wing/control surface/pitot tube heaters add to cost of a plane that flies so high in the atmosphere where icing can occur.


The problem is real life physics causes certain engineering limitations.

So many people talk of anti-gravity and sentient robots and all those things because those ideas sound cool, but there are both theorethical and practical limitations to what can be engineered with current scientific knowledge.



posted on Aug, 6 2011 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by kennylee
 


Dont worry unless he is in Special Forces, about this incident.

I am sorry that something I added to ATS made you upset when waking.

Try not to worry to much, be strong for your Brother, and hey look for help with dealing with your fears from your Doctor if it really gets you down.

This event will more than likely speed up the return home of US troops so it may be a blessing in disguise for the US/NATO troops who are there at the moment.

Kind Regards,

Elf



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