China suggests new "One World Global Currency"

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Did you miss the past 3-4yrs?

"Stable"

First of all, this is not me taking you seriously for trolling. This is for anyone else who might make the mistake of taking you seriously.

Even that narrow of a look is the exception that proves the rule. Damn few other countries would have been anywhere near as stable as the US has been while dealing with that level of economic shock to the system.

I don't generally like to use a 'game' metaphor for this sort of thing because it is not really a game, but this is a long run game, not a short run game. One way for the people of a country to lose is for their people to lose their nerve and freak out like is happening in the UK. Crackdown and loss of basic rights and freedoms is already in the works for them.

And conversely, if the people of a country do not lose their nerve, do not freak out, and do not start blasting and chopping up their neighbors, then it will be very hard for TPTB to get to do the sort of crackdown and grip tightening they seem to want to be doing.

TPTB are counting on people losing their nerve. Osama bin Laden prayed to 'disperse our gathering' i.e. for the USA to break up into separate entities. Everyone who wants the US or any other nation to fail wants to see them fall into chaos. A big part of what keeps stuff like is happening in the UK from ever getting so widespread in the US is the 2nd amendment, so TPTB want to disarm us. The truth is it goes a long way to promoting basic stability. Look into the LA Riots and you'll see that shopkeepers who were standing on their roofs with rifles were able to mostly protect their property.

TPTB are trying to trick people into thinking they deserve to be ruthlessly controlled and forced to live sh**y drone lives. If the people don't freak out, if the people do not lose their nerve, their options will be limited, and their efforts will crumble from lack of progress.

I agree, we all need a new currency.

Americans are just bitter because it won't be the US Dollar.

Originally posted by JennaDarling

I agree, we all need a new currency.

Americans are just bitter because it won't be the US Dollar.

Wow, you literally posted for an entire waking day yesterday. How on earth did you manage that?

I would think somebody who has that much time to post could justify their opinion, at least a little.

For example, in what way do you think you would benefit from "a new currency?" And which of the sort of new currencies being discussed in this tread were you speaking in favor of?

Originally posted by 11andrew34

Originally posted by JennaDarling

I agree, we all need a new currency.

Americans are just bitter because it won't be the US Dollar.

Wow, you literally posted for an entire waking day yesterday. How on earth did you manage that?

I would think somebody who has that much time to post could justify their opinion, at least a little.

For example, in what way do you think you would benefit from "a new currency?" And which of the sort of new currencies being discussed in this tread were you speaking in favor of?

edit on 12-8-2011 by 11andrew34 because: typo

XDR's are already used internationally, personally there should be no currency but the world isn't ready for that yet.

Most likely they will create a new currency and not pick an existing one thereby removing the arguments over whos currency they picked.

Everybody will benefit from a unified currency, prices can be transparent the world over then, there will be no borders to where you can buy your goods, just like the Eurozone, on a larger scale, before you say the EU is failing, it has succeeded in much more intangable ways than you can imagine.

People seem to forget there is other unified zones around the world too, Asia, Middle East, Africa they have all practically unified like the EuroZone next step is to roll them all up into a single unit.

The mechanisms and desires are in place now, all they need is to execute on it (we are seeing this now) and pick a name that everybody will remember.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze

 

What's bad with this?

New World Order isn't a bad idea under the right leaders. Of course China is not a good leader.

In any case, what's wrong with a single currency?

America is not a good leader either, that much is clear too..

The UN is currently what we have, work with it.

Before you all say no not the UN its failed, it has again succeeded in many ways that you just don't give it credit for out of bitterness.

Before you say "we can go it alone, the status quo works fine", no it doesnt, that much is clear.

reply to post by 11andrew34


Why are you calling me a troll? You claim that the US economy has been stable...which is beyond nonsense!!! How on earth is stating the facts trolling??

Even that narrow of a look is the exception that proves the rule. Damn few other countries would have been anywhere near as stable as the US has been while dealing with that level of economic shock to the system.

You talking about the economic shock the US caused in the first place?

One way for the people of a country to lose is for their people to lose their nerve and freak out like is happening in the UK.

The riots were more a bunch of opportunists rather than protestors...hell, they arrested millionaire daughters looting too

And conversely, if the people of a country do not lose their nerve, do not freak out, and do not start blasting and chopping up their neighbors, then it will be very hard for TPTB to get to do the sort of crackdown and grip tightening they seem to want to be doing.

What does this have to do with the FACT that the US dollar isn't stable? Riots only have a minor influence, the majority is the general health of the economy, which in the US is worse than grim.

TPTB are trying to trick people into thinking they deserve to be ruthlessly controlled and forced to live sh**y drone lives. If the people don't freak out, if the people do not lose their nerve, their options will be limited, and their efforts will crumble from lack of progress.

I don't disagree...but what the hell does that have to do with the US currency not being suited as the world's reserve currency.

The reason it's not a great option is because the entire US economy is still a house of cards. And even if it weren't, the crisis made it clear that having the world's reserve currency based on a single country's currency is stupid...mostly because if that country's economy tanks, it will pull down everyone else. THAT's the reason the US dollar isn't a great option! It's got NOTHING to do with riots or civil liberties...so what are you talking about?

Are you saying by pretending everything's fine, the US will keep its position as world reserve currency?

Originally posted by JennaDarling
XDR's are already used internationally, personally there should be no currency but the world isn't ready for that yet.

Most likely they will create a new currency and not pick an existing one thereby removing the arguments over whos currency they picked.

Everybody will benefit from a unified currency, prices can be transparent the world over then, there will be no borders to where you can buy your goods, just like the Eurozone, on a larger scale, before you say the EU is failing, it has succeeded in much more intangable ways than you can imagine.

People seem to forget there is other unified zones around the world too, Asia, Middle East, Africa they have all practically unified like the EuroZone next step is to roll them all up into a single unit.

The mechanisms and desires are in place now, all they need is to execute on it (we are seeing this now) and pick a name that everybody will remember

Amazing. That seems like it was written by an entirely different person. Is that how you post all day long?

The XDR is not a world currency. Its problem is that it is not connected to a real economy and so it can not be much expanded. No one will ever use one to buy a sandwich anywhere on Earth.

Most countries will not at all benefit from a single world currency, and the ways you have listed are rather thin.

World leaders can not and do not get to 'pick' a reserve currency. The market picks the best available option from the options available.

Prices are already transparent the world over now because of the internet. XE.com for example will show you what any currency is worth in terms of another. This is a perfect example of what I said earlier about the idea of a one world currency being an outdated idea where most of the reasons to desire it in the past have already been answered by computers and the internet.

Similarly, the "borders" (better described as barriers) that now exist to buying goods will not be changed by a one world currency. You can already buy Chinese goods from Chinese online retailers from the EU or the US or most any other country where shipping methods exist, but most of the time you would need to actually speak and read a Chinese language or to find someone who does to make the deal.

Even though you begged the question on the EU, I'll respond. I actually have an awesome imagination, better than 99.9%+ of the world's population. If I can't imagine it, damn few can. But I still can't read your mind.

So go ahead and name a few ways that you think the EU has been a massive success, if they are on point here. Here is something that nobody has to imagine because it is true and on point here: the Euros is putting more than half of the people of Europe out of work. Germany is putting its customers out of work. The whole mess is not at all sustainable if not for the Chinese buying French etc debt. The black market has also dramatically expanded. In the US, people are not so desperate that they regularly knock on your door to sell you handicrafts.

AESAN nations are looking into making a new currency and will probably attempt one. To some extent currency agglutination makes sense, but it is the same reason that a one world currency now makes ZERO economic sense. A single currency should be used for a single economy.

You can call the world a single economy if you want to, but it is deluded globalist nonsense. Practically speaking there are a bunch of different microcosms existing in the macrocosm and it makes perfect sense for those microcosms to be regulated independently, an essential part of which is that they have their own currency.

There will never be a world currency because the world will probably never be manageable by a single currency.

The US doesn't even have a single currency anymore, which you can see if you are smart enough to realize that EBT aka foodstamps is in effect a seperate currency, one based on rationing food(in generous amounts, for the time being).

reply to post by JennaDarling


No. I will not work with a crappy outdated obsolete superstate that has proved itself inept and poorly equipped to deal with worldly issues. The highest ranking Chinese and American generals would probably do more work for good in the world if they allied to each other than their governments. But I suppose my dreams of the army storming the capitol is not for this day.

It doesn't matter if America is not a good leader. Principals are what matter. China's principals shut down technology that America's principals produced. The same technology that has now led to revolutions across the globe for freedom.

To hell with the UN. May is burn in the archives of history as a failed invention of a hopeless generation desperate for peace. I'd sooner join a World Union of the world's military forces than a political union from them.

Alone is not the status quo alone is telling the world, go to hell, I am going to unite with my friends and make something of my community. The UN would have you just pay your bills and obey your masters. To hell with that.

For all the good the UN has done, it is not itself, but the military men willing to commit that have actually done it. All while their leaders sit down and do nothing but argue for silliness.

reply to post by 11andrew34


I think you are confusing world RESERVE currency with a true world currency replacing all others. We're only talking about a world reserve currency that's being used for most international trade...NOT about a currency replacing all others.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

No. I will not work with a crappy outdated obsolete superstate that has proved itself inept and poorly equipped to deal with worldly issues. The highest ranking Chinese and American generals would probably do more work for good in the world if they allied to each other than their governments. But I suppose my dreams of the army storming the capitol is not for this day.

It doesn't matter if America is not a good leader. Principals are what matter. China's principals shut down technology that America's principals produced. The same technology that has now led to revolutions across the globe for freedom.

To hell with the UN. May is burn in the archives of history as a failed invention of a hopeless generation desperate for peace. I'd sooner join a World Union of the world's military forces than a political union from them.

Alone is not the status quo alone is telling the world, go to hell, I am going to unite with my friends and make something of my community. The UN would have you just pay your bills and obey your masters. To hell with that.

For all the good the UN has done, it is not itself, but the military men willing to commit that have actually done it. All while their leaders sit down and do nothing but argue for silliness.

All that arguing and sillyness eh...

So why did it take America a year or more to decide to enter WW2?

reply to post by JennaDarling


lol

Money.

What else?

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Why are you calling me a troll? You claim that the US economy has been stable...which is beyond nonsense!!! How on earth is stating the facts trolling??

You are still shouting like a troll, but at least you are now making claims instead of just a two line post with more emoticons than points.

But I've already answered this point. A reserve currency is not chosen overnight. Over the long run the US has an excellent track record, and that is why it is the world reserve currency for the time being. The ugly reality is that it would take another decade or two, with three to five more 2008's for the US to cease to be the market's logical choice. Even if that is what is being planned by world leaders, it will take them at least that long.

You talking about the economic shock the US caused in the first place?

Another troll point. It isn't on topic. That would be a whole other debate. Personally, I don't consider a central bank run by people who are allowed to remain unidentified to be "the US." European central banks are also obviously not American.

The riots were more a bunch of opportunists rather than protestors...hell, they arrested millionaire daughters looting too

Oh hey look another emoticon. What a convincing emoticon.

I never called them protests or said that the rioters were "protestors." But I do think they are obviously a long term consequence of long term problems in the leadership of the UK.

That would include things like the 'respectable' folk being entirely unworthy of respect because they made their money by gaming the system and cheating the people of their futures. The rich are idly wealthy and the poor are idly poor. The rich and poor are both dumb now because they both see no point to them learning. I could go on, but it was an off topic point to begin with.

They are perhaps also even a policy goal. Even if they weren't they will be exploited to achieve policy goals.

What does this have to do with the FACT that the US dollar isn't stable? Riots only have a minor influence, the majority is the general health of the economy, which in the US is worse than grim.

Oh is it now? Lack of stability is called volatility. QE isn't volatility because they tell you when it is going to happen and the results are completely predictable. It is inflation but it isn't volatility.

Most riots in the US are not for simple economic reasons. A bad economy will generally cause an increase in property crime such as burglary. Rioting is a poor way to improve your own economic prospects.

Natural disasters, sports victories, and a blatant social injustice, usually involving a specific victim, which pushes a people who already hold a lot of simmering anger and discontent over the edge, seem to be the major cause of riots over the past few decades in the US.

Actual protesting is generally something that police can and do massively prepare for, and so it rarely gets too out of hand.

The reason it's not a great option is because the entire US economy is still a house of cards. And even if it weren't, the crisis made it clear that having the world's reserve currency based on a single country's currency is stupid...mostly because if that country's economy tanks, it will pull down everyone else. THAT's the reason the US dollar isn't a great option! It's got NOTHING to do with riots or civil liberties...so what are you talking about?

Are you saying by pretending everything's fine, the US will keep its position as world reserve currency?

No, I am not at all saying that. You should be able to tell that I'm not saying that because I haven't said that. You need to not make assumptions like that if want to pursue discussion and not be wasting your own time.

I'm saying that the US is the reserve currency even if we don't at all change the general way things are done here for another decade or two, based on the real world economic reality of both our position and that of the rest of the world.

This is much to the chagrin of those in power who are pushing for a world currency. We are indeed declining relative to the world, but it is far too gradually for their agenda's time table. The USA is like an old battleship that they are trying to scuttle. They keep throwing torpedoes at her but she just keeps floating. She's a well made old boat. Damn good people with a lot of foresight put her together.

One of the few things that could speed up the process is mass chaos. The stability of a country is part of a country's fundamental economic reality.

Since you don't seem to understand that, I'll expand a bit. One good example of how that works in reality is insurance costs. When a country is less stable, its insurance costs are higher and the general cost of business is higher. When a war happens, insurance costs go crazy to reflect the gigantic risk of doing business in a war zone. The UK riots will fundamentally weaken the business climate in the UK, but to what extent remains to be seen. If it stops soon, it won't be such a large effect, but insurance rates will still go up. If it keeps going, there will be significant economic damage just from this factor, from insurance rates.

That is just one basic way that order and disorder have to do with this topic. Stability has a lot to do with why our economy is so highly regarded as to be the world's reserve both for psychological reasons and for the economic reality that stability creates. That stability means that compared to most places on Earth, an investment will not go up in flames, or by being confiscated by the new ruling political power, or a bunch of other wildly unpredictable factors.

I am optimistic that the US will never be weakened so much as for another country or investment vehicle to replace the dollar as the logical choice of the world's money managers for reserves...at least among the currencies. Gold and the Swiss Franc can only absorb so much investment. The US is even holding more gold than any other country, so we don't really lose if gold continues its massive run. We're also holding a lot of untapped oil, so if oil prices went to ridiculously unprecedented levels, say $200+, you would see the US simply move to tap oil that it has kept off limits for the time being, by design.

For the time being though the generation in power now is unusually stupid, short sighted, and greedy. The best people who are in the current ~24-37 year old range are so much more well read and capable. They are just much more serious and capable people, even the greedy ones. Even the titans of the early 20th century would be disgusted by the people in charge today. They at least believed in building up the US rather than tearing it down.

The boomer leadership was bad and it's getting old and tired. Generation X is poorly defined, but the teenagers of the 70s are probably the least serious, least knowledgeable bunch of insubstantial BS'ers the country could ever produce. They are both sitting ducks for the generation that grew up watching them sell out our futures. They are well entrenched but they don't intuitively understand the information age. Lots of us don't have anything better to do than sit around and sharpen ourselves.

Unfortunately, below ~24 you have a really freaky generation of kids who grew up using the internet to cheat on their homework. The social effects of growing up with broadband internet and cell phones have been rather bizarre. With the people who are 24-36 you get the best of both the old world and new world...but there aren't a lot of us and we won't have a long window to get things done before all the little myspace vampires are pushing us out by sheer force of numbers(coordinating by social networking sites etc). At least they know how to look stuff up on the internet so they couldn't possibly be as effectively dumb as the 70s kids running things these days, but they are as shallow as they are broad. But they so far, on the whole, seem to me to be surprisingly callous, cruel, and impatient little monsters. They are after all the product of a sabotaged system that never even really tried to do better by them.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
I think you are confusing world RESERVE currency with a true world currency replacing all others. We're only talking about a world reserve currency that's being used for most international trade...NOT about a currency replacing all others.

I am not at all confused. I'm shifting gears just as the thread is shifting gears. I've talked about both because other people are talking about both. The OP is of course about the former but there has been plenty of discussion of the latter in this thread.

They are also kind of difficult issues to separate, because there is no real candidate for replacing the US Dollar.

The Euro is already too broken. It was too much too soon. It will probably become two currencies if they can't get it together. And China has a few decades to go, even if the current realities continue on into the future as a straight line.

The basic point of mine that you don't seem to be getting is that a reserve currency is a reserve currency because people choose it for reserves based on their options. The US is still the only candidate for the job, amazingly, and it will continue that way for as little as another decade even if things progress horribly here but not other places the whole time.

We simply have an immensely strong economy built up over the very long term, as in post-WWII and no thanks to Clinton, W, and Obama. We are falling but we have a long way to fall before anybody on the rise passes us by.

Otherwise, nobody would be complaining. They complain because they know this grim trend will take at least a decade or two to play out and everybody is already tired of it.

reply to post by 11andrew34


Well, the experts disagree with pretty much everything you're saying (special emoticon just for you)

Link 1

Link 2

If you seriously believe the US could handle "3-4 more crisis' like in 2008" and still keep their status as reserve currency, you are guided by blind patriotism. China's pushing for a new reserve currency, Russia is too, and so is Europe. A likely scenario is that a basket of currencies will replace the dollar...but it WILL happen in the medium term. Not tomorrow, but give it another 10 years or so and the dollar won't be the reserve currency any longer.

It's WAY too easy to debase a single currency, which is EXACTLY what the US have been doing for years...they just keep on printing money like mad whenever they need to take up new debt

In short, you might wanna read up on the issue before commenting...

reply to post by 11andrew34

We simply have an immensely strong economy built up over the very long term, as in post-WWII and no thanks to Clinton, W, and Obama. We are falling but we have a long way to fall before anybody on the rise passes us by.

The US were only able to do that because after WW2, all the other countries' industries were in shambles...they've been catching up. China will soon overtake the US for example. Just look at the economic growth rates and compare the US with China, India, Russia, and a ton of other countries. Your blind patriotism is clouding your mind if you believe the US has a long way to fall. Economics is about one thing, and one thing only...money!

reply to post by JennaDarling


Isn't that SDR's . Special Drawing Rights and it will not be printed money it will be electronic and you must have electronic means of identification . That will turn out to be an RFID implant . The old Mark of the Beast thing . Just because it's not fun does not mean it's not real .