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Originally posted by Aelita
do you care to comment about how well we did in Iraq? I think we did a terrible job. There is no peace in sight, the Army is tied down for foreseeable future, and the locals are suffering. There has been no electricity and running water in most of the country in the last few days. The chaos and division of the country will continue, unfortunately.
I think the deepening deficit is one evidence that it was a bad idea.
Originally posted by jrsdls
Having been in Iraq and see the plight of the Iraqi people, I think Bush has shown great compassion to them by removing Saddam. I have lost two children in the Iraqi conflict. I know that their sacrifice was worth freeing people from the tyranny that was known as Saddam. I don't know how much you know about history, but Neville Chamberlain appeased Hitler in WW II and that lead to the concentration camps and Hitler's final solution. Saddam was doing the same thing, against the Kurds and others. He used Chemical weapons on his own people. Would you be against Roosevelt for going to war against Hitler? Would you claim that the lost of lives on the beach at Normandy not worth it? It's easy to criticize and complain against any cost of life, but I have been there. I have seen the Kurds welcoming Americans with open arms, calling us Saviors. I have given my own blood for these folks. I miss my sons, more than life itself, but thier sacrifice was worth it.
Originally posted by astrocreep
Well, actually, it was the most successful military campaign of our time.
We have control of the country and now have a base of operations right where we wanted it. That was the real reason for going. Iraq ia a strategic position.
Iraq is right on schedule and right where the powers that be in the US want it...and so are you and I.
I'd say the growing deficit is a good example that increased federal spending is as bad an idea as tax cuts. You somehow think that the federal government gave its money away. Look, most federal and state income taxes are illegally collected and have been since the beginning.
That wealth is yours and mine if we earn it so don't go telling me the fact that our elected officials would rather run up the tab and threaten important social programs before letting go of their slush funds and perks is because the people got little break on their taxes.
Washington represents the largest and most wasteful corperation in the US. Somehow, you and everyone like you expect me and everyone like me to be A-Okay with a 70% waste factor
Originally posted by jrsdls
I must admit that I am a history fan, I draw a lot from the worlds history and on man's innate nature to form my own views on things. We can not just exit Iraq, we have to nurse it along until it is able to be "weaned " from us. The same can be said for Afghanistan.
If we were to just leave, then the void we leave would be filled by someone. Look at the end of World War I, Germany was basically left to it's own and Hitler filled the void left by the allies.
After World War II, We stayed in Japan as an occupation well until the 60's and in fact did not fully turn over all territory to the Japanese government until 1973 with turning over Okinowa to them.
That county (Japan) has flourished, not because we were there, but because we did not abandom them
But we must remain there until the government is strong enough to take care of it's self.
They never show the medical and dental doctors going into towns and providing service to people who did not have it before.
Originally posted by Aelita
What slush finds? I agree the tax break was laughable because most people got bak like $200-300. One percent of the population got the rest.
[edit on 17-8-2004 by Aelita]
Gods of War, Gods of Greed and Profiteers of Misery
By Manuel Valenzuela
Aug 18, 2004, 03:06
“The process of transformation [American empire building]…is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.”
--- From PNAC plan entitled Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century, endorsed by neocons in the Bush Administration, the corporate media and Washington think-tanks. Ingrained in the plan are ever-increasing levels of military spending, incessant empire building, pre-emptive invasions and, inherently, a perpetual state of war and fear.
Manna from Heaven
Like bolts of lightning sent from the gods above, airline jets appeared out of parting skies, slamming thunderously into grandeurs of human achievement, transforming towering monuments of steel and glass into blinding avalanches of ashen dust and debris that have yet to clear from the residue-filled eyes of most Americans. The omnipresent haze that remains is deeply entrenched into our primitive and mammalian brain, reawakening dormant animalistic passions and emotions that are corroding our ability to think like the human beings we claim to be.
Like a pathogen this malady exists, attaching itself to the cells of reason and analytical thinking, infecting us with fear, insecurity, paranoia, hatred, anger, vengeance and a blind, degenerative patriotism that has placed the future course of American history in the claws of a small cabal of corrupt, malevolent and warmongering few.
They are the military-industrial complex (MIC) and the Corporate Leviathan, and the gods of war and greed they are called. This powerful group of elite is comprised of profiteers of misery, purveyors of death, immoral scoundrels addicted to power and debased monsters whose faces are stained with the blood of thousands upon thousands of innocent human beings. For them, the horrors perpetrated on 9/11 were the Pearl Harbor they had long been seeking.