When is life not worth living anymore?

reply to post by silo13


Thank you for your well thought through answer.

I think your right in that people do seem to find extra reserves of strength (physical and emotional) when faced with adversity and people do carry on through things that they could not possibly even contemplate before it happens to them.

reply to post by davespanners


Terminal Illness is the only way I feel I could possibly condone euthanasia... given your family also understands and supports your decision. Otherwise life is always worth living.

IRM

reply to post by davespanners


A very good question and I commend you for asking it. I don't mind admitting that my life wasn't always complete as it is now and at a few times in my past I came as close as I think you can to committing suicide.

The thing that stopped me eventually was realising how selfish an act it was; the pain I would cause to people who love and depend on me was too much to think about. This thought made me realise that perhaps there was still life in me yet, and I used that drive myself away from self hate and in to self discovery.

I love bertrand russells interviews: "love is wise, hatred is foolish"

Knowing that some part of me felt enough love for others not to put them through that pain, revived me as a human being and sent me on a wonderful journey. I regret nothing.

I honestly don't think anything could make me take suicidal thought seriously again, but if there's anything I've learned on this journey, it's that the brain is immensely powerful. Sometimes you can trick yourself in to believing things you wuold never entertain.

Peace out...

Originally posted by mattime
Murder is wrong. Therefore, killing oneself is too. Life is always worth living, without exception. We are here for a reason, if not then we wouldn't be here in the first place. Once we complete our reason for being here, we don't come back. Nice and Simple.

Its not like you were forced onto Earth, right? And if you weren't, then why are you here . . .

Well I'm not so sure personally that life does have a purpose aside from the continuation of the species, so if I were to take that view there would be no reason to carry on living past my useful reproductive age.
Or maybe if the purpose of life is whatever you decide it to be, then does the point at which it isnt worth continuing with become the point at which it's clear you are not going to meet your own goals?

I have a terminal illness, so I have thought of this question quite a lot recently. I don't actually know how my disease will actually finish me off, never wanted to know how bad it deteriorates. I am assuming a time will come when my main organs will begin to stop functioning, I will probably need help breathing and eating.

I know I will want to hold on as long as possible, but when the time comes that I am in too much pain, knowing there is no coming back, I hope I will be made comfortable enough to either overdose myself or at worst request someone help me along. But I will want to carry on until I can still see and hear my family, still feel their hands still feel the love for as long as possible.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Thank you for that very real and personal perspective

To me, I always think of my family first. Now I haven't had that hard of times, other than a disastrous divorce that threw me into a deep depression because my ex was a horrible horrible person. However, I could only think of my parents through the situation. I felt like I let them down, but they were only concerned that I was going to hurt myself.

I was sick of this ride on earth, but I put them first. Time heals all wounds. I found a "real" person to love, and I am now married again to a pure human being.

Taking your own life relieves your earthly pain, but it brings some much pain to those you care about. Even if only one person on this earth cared about me, I would not kill myself. ONLY if nobody on the entire planet gave a single thought to me, would I end it all. I'm not on this earth for me, neither are you. There's a higher purpose.

You need to experience life. The ups and downs are all a part of life. If you have a positive relationship with anyone, you're serving a purpose. Keep fighting, only until you become a detriment to the entirety. Then it's time to pull the trigger.

reply to post by davespanners


That is a loaded question. I think theres no single thing that could make me want to give up life, but in the past, combinations of events and feelings have put me in the mindset that life isn't worth living.

The first crack in the foundation was a failed relationship that I had put too much faith in. My reaction to this and events that followed damaged my friendship with my two best friends. I haven't spoken to either of them in months. This led me to believe that I am not worth loving, or even good enough to be a friend to anyone. I feel that I am genetically unfit to reproduce, my children would probably endure the same amount of suffering, or worse.

So reproduction is no longer an option, I no longer have much interest in the opposite sex, I no longer trust myself or other people, and now I lack the motivation to work or even get up in the morning. I press on through life because for some reason I feel I have to.

I comfort myself with video games and smoking the dried and cured leaves of various plants, and some rather lewd self-indulgent acts. The video games are getting old, I feel like I've played them all. Waiting for Skyrim helps keep me going I guess.

I'm terribly lonely but my complete lack of self-esteem makes it impossible for me to get a date. So I just gave up on women. I'm pretty sure now that I'm (mostly) gay anyway, which only opens up more opportunities for problems.

It was bad enough being a pathetic excuse for a man. Now I get to be called an abomination for feelings I can't control. If I try for happiness with another man, I'm told I will go to hell. If I suffer through life denying those feelings and pray my ass off, I earn a slim chance at entering Heaven, assuming God exists. If I kill myself, its either hell or total oblivion. Gotta love these options.

I've overheard many christians saying that faith will help you, make you feel life is worthwhile, and will help you overcome sinful desires.. but I just can't put faith in a divine being that is concerned with such trivial matters as who you love and the clothes you wear. It seems completely delusional to me. God has never done anything to prove otherwise.

I've attempted suicide a couple times- barely. I couldn't go through with it because I can't inflict pain on myself. I'm pretty pathetic, I know. Also, when I think of my parents and my sister, it hurts me to think of how upset they would be, though sometimes I wish they would just stop caring so I could just fade away.

The one thing that could push me over the edge at this point would be losing my luxuries. If I no longer had my games, my smokes, etc. I would go completely mental.

Any attempt at making my life better leads to more problems. The pain either increases, or remains the same. There is no hope for improvement in my situation; the most I can hope for is stagnation.

Originally posted by LooksLikeWeMadeIt
reply to post by MamaJ

 

well maybe you should look at the other side of the coin. long story short; my pop had a debilitating muscular / neurological illness. we kept him at home as long as we could but eventually we had to place him in a nursing home as it was taking a severe toll on my mom's health as well. my point; because of my work schedule I was able to stop and visit my pop most every day and/or night on my way home from work. I can't tell you how many people in that nursing home had noone. absolutely noone. the nursing staff confirmed this as well. it broke my heart. sure you'd see the family members pay their obligatory holiday visit but where were they the other 360 days of the year? people are cruel and often shun the weakest and stricken amongst us. they do and you know it's true. I ended up striking up a friendship with one of the residents when I'd go out to catch a smoke. on occasion when I could tell he was down, he told me that if he knew how lonely life would become he would have ended his when he had the chance. in some odd, sad way I understood what he was saying and more importantly why he was saying it. ...... just my 2 cents worth

Unfortunately I know the other side of the coin all too well. I met my oldest step son when he was only 4. We were very close and spent a lot of time together. He was diagnosed with ALL when he was 10 and lost the battle when he was 15. He had a slow and painful death. It was and still is a nightmare from hell for those left behind...but with an understanding of looking back to see how it not only changed all of us that were left behind but we can also look back and see all that was learned from his passing. I have no control over how we enter or leave this plane. I know what comes after death....for the moments of pain are not remembered or if at all felt by the entity. This of course is my opinion.

Let's separate euthanasia from suicide. Euthanasia is either passive or active, it's relief of an individual in an unfortunate circumstance that will be passing shortly. That appears to be the tipping point for some, but I think it's a different circumstance.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by MamaJ

 

You're looking at suicide as a sorrow/depression driven act. Those are not the only situations/circumstances under which suicide can become an option.

Consider the case of being the lone survivor of a ship-wreck, stranded on a raft in the middle of the ocean without food. Assume that you had some way of ending your life: would you do it, or would you choose to slowly starve to death on-board your raft?

Suicide does not always have to be a pathetic, childish act. It can be. There are plenty of people who do decide to cross the divide for less than respectable reasons. Unfortunately not everyone has a network support group like you might. The thought of suicide to these people becomes an alternative route because they are alone, or they have no future, or they are somehow maimed or immobilized. Maybe they are simply an elder generation who has become a burden on the younger generations because they can no longer provide for themselves.

Suicide is not as black-and-white as "if you do it, you hurt everyone you know". There's a lot more behind why people do it, the process of consideration, and the carrying out.

You have no idea where I have been...promise you. I am able to live by experience and the experience of others. No matter how you look at it it is a selfish act. No matter the reason. SO MUCH PAIN.....would be an awful way to go....but one that must be dealt with. I have seen it and heard the pain night after night. I promise it is not a nice site by the one that is experiencing the pain. I can still hear the painful sorrows of my passed on loved ones. It hurts deep.....

When a woman gives birth she describes a natural high.....its the same for the one who experiences death and pain. You would be surprised how quick the spirit leaves the body when there is a realization of "no point of return".

reply to post by davespanners


I believe we are all both Student and Teacher. And we often can't see the lesson when we are set adrift in it. I thought of a quote - and I'm very embarrassed to say I can't remember the source -

"How do we know this is the experience we need? Because this is the experience we are having."

I believe that the absolutely most spectacular gifts of wisdom come in the most challenging wrappings. I think suicide is an understandable reaction to some of the harshest circumstances, but one that ultimately cheats you of real spiritual opportunity.

Hang in there. Gather love.

reply to post by Glass


Numbing/dissociate techniques. I understand. I use them as well to avoid killing myself at times.

Hope you have a therapist. I tried for years and only found horrible shrink after horrible shrink... most make things worse rather than better.... but if you can find a good one they are worth their wait in gold

/hugs
piano

Dave:

There are a lot of us out here struggling not with "what would make me do it" but rather "what can I do to keep myself from doing it."

There are pains so deep that cannot be uttered. And often the guilt of surviving is the worst pain of all.

I survive by constant therapy. Trying to teach myself to not give into the negative self talk when spirals down into attempts. Avoiding trigger situations.... well I don't want to bore people... Some of us live day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute and it is hard.

You started a real bear of a topic here

reply to post by MamaJ


You wrongly assume that I have not had experiences with suicide as you have. While I may not know where you have been, I do know what it is like to be the one who discovers a victim of suicide, and receives the news of a suicide, and at one point was considering the suicide himself. I also understand, though, that life is not about the self. Everyone I love has absolutely no obligation to suffer for me. If their life is so wrong, that they see suicide as a release of burden, I have no right to make them bear a load for me which they otherwise would not want to. I stopped believing my emotional well-being was anyone's responsibility but my own a long time ago. People are free to provide for themselves how they see fit. And it is selfish to make something live which wants only death.

As for the spirit leaving the body, that depends on your belief system. I've felt the presence of my family's suicide victims still near, comforting my brother even. The spirit is not bound by any laws where it must flee a dead body into some great beyond. The spirit is free to do as it chooses upon death. Some choose to remain behind comforting others after their pain has ended. Others run for Paradise. More still get stuck because of unfinished business, or what have you. But no, not every spirit runs quickly once it realizes it can't return.

As for birth and death... no. It's not always a natural high. A stopped heart, for instance, causes intense pain, and a cold, climbing numb of limb and mind. It's actually terrifying to be alone in that place, losing yourself. And the shock of the EMT's paddles resuscitating you is actually very painful. And I was only "gone" for a minute. I cannot imagine the people who experience that for the full 8 minutes a body can be dead and still be revived.

Birth is painful to the brink of euphoric. Death is anything but.

reply to post by davespanners


What a great question Dave.
I dont care how many of people think people are weak for commiting suicide or even contimplating it.
We have never walked a mile in their shoe's ,so,,,,, we cannot judge them.
I have lost many friends to suicide.( drugs, depression, post natal depression, family issue's ect)
Yes,,,,,,, i had moments where i didn't understand my friends for making this decision , but there were other times when i did understand. I never once have hated my friends for their choice, nore have i ever stopped loving them either. And i miss everyone of them. I think about them all the time
So I think that there are many many reasons that people experience during life's sometimes unhappy journey that could lead a person to feel that life is not important anymore and by ending ones life might just stop all their heart ache and pain.
1) If they had a terminal illness. ( i have a friend that has a terminal illness and has talked this senario)
2) the loss of a loved one, family member or partner either through death or divorce ect.
3) suffering from a mental illness like Post Natal Depression, ect.
4)----------------------( insert your own thoughts here)
Heres why i thought my life wasn't worth living anymore.
I have just gone through a divorce and ive lost the beautiful little lady that was my life for 14 years. We were together nearly half our lives. She was the only good in my world. She was the angel that helped me get of the streets, and showed me that there was a reason to life. She showed me what love truely meant. She was the one that i thought that would be there always and would love me unconditionally forever even after death.
But i was wrong.
When she left, well,,,,, I ,,,,,,,,,,, not only contemplated ending it,,,,,,,, But,,,,,,,,, nearly succeded and for some unknown reason It didnt happen, it should have,,, but didn't. And im glad now it didn't.
I was in a bad place in life and also in my head.
I was lucky, and after that i asked for help, and when i did, i got the help that i needed or who knows what might have been after.
Some people aren't lucky enough to get help, some people have to journey through life with no one to help or even care.
I now work security, mostly in pubs and clubs. Last week we had one of our locals ( patrons) he was drunk and upset, he was crying and told me and my fellow work mates that he wanted to kill himself as he has no friends and no one that cared for him at all. We kept him there talking to him telling him that people did and do care, we care. I didn't hate him for his thoughts, we contacted his family and they sent a friend to pick him up and take care of him.
I hope they helped and i hope i see him this week or if not i really F%&#@ up.
So like i said there are many reasons why someone could contemplate it.
Please dont judge anyone does.
We haven't lived their life so how can we judge???

I disagree with some of the ideas presented here.

Suicide is not easy - overcoming the survival instinct is probably one of the hardest things someone would ever have to do - it would take a severe case to do it consciously.

Its all fine and good that people claim to "be there" for them, but when it comes down to it, those people can't really help or can't really handle it.

Also consider in the case of the extreme, they do not want to burden their loved ones with their problems. They spend YEARS convincing everyone around them that they're OK. So when it gets really bad, no one believes them. I believe, the majority of successful suicides, are done accidentally through a "cry for help".


I do not believe Suicide can be considered murderous. Its your life and you should have the right to end it.


While I agree its a selfish act, I also think most acts are selfish. Even performing good deeds. While they are beneficial to the recipient, in most cases, it didn't hurt us to do them. And even if it did hurt us to do them, the benefits we get by "feeling good about ourselves" doesn't benefit anyone but us.

I'm not saying its a motivating factor "to feel good", but if it didn't feel good, we wouldn't do it. My responding to this thread is for purely selfish reasons, even if I help you to understand in some way.


Lastly, and most important....
NO ONE has a right to judge ANYONE whos suicidal unless they themselves have been suicidal. And even then its still personal.

reply to post by Glass


Believe me, you can always do something to make your life better, You need to plan for a future, think about where you would like to be in 5 years time. If you dont plan for a future you are destined to wind up in a rut. Once you have a goal then making the steps to achieve that goal is what life is all about, whether you make the goal is not really important but taking the steps and moving in the direction of the goal will give you a reason to live.

If you think you are gay, then maybe you should embrace it rather than beat yourself up about it. Don't listen to the judgements of ignorant people, who have no interest in your personal well being. This is your life, you have one crack at it. It would be a shame not to give it a shot for fear of what other people might think.

Sorry if it looks like I've just rattled off a load of cliched nonsense but, many cliches are true.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I didn't wrongly assume anything. I told you that you have no idea where I have been and what I have experienced. Sorry...but this has to do with my own opinion and is based off what I have learned and my own experience. Think what you may....makes no difference to me. I was offering an opinion as the op asked.

This vessel we call a body does indeed experience many levels of pain throughout its lifetime and it is not up to me when to end the experience. It ends when it ends. I have experienced child birth and many other forms of pain that lasted for months. No pill would cure it and it was so bad I too could have taken my own life....only to be out of pain and cause others to suffer. If you are dying and in pain.... there is not enough meds to get you out of the misery. Death does....and it comes when it is supposed to. This we can agree to disagree on.

Peace and love to you and yours!!!! xoxoxx

Jenn

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I was "gone" for two minutes, and brought back with the paddles. Then Life Flighted. I don't remember one thing about it. I'm glad I don't. I laid in a coma for 17 days, woke up, and don't even remember waking up. I can't even really remember anything until two weeks later I was in the ambulance being transported to my therapy hospital 2 hours away. My brain I was told was protecting me by sheltering all this information out.

It hurts me more to know my father stood there and watched the paramedics yelling out and counting aloud while they slapped those electrically charged paddles of my chest to bring me to. I can't recall one bit of that event. I don't remember the pain I felt as that voltage restarted my heart.

When I hear the story, all I hear is my father watched as his son laid there dead . . . people yelled out that I was gone . . . some one was counting down to clear way for the paddles . . . they moved me to a life flight helicopter, and then my parents had to drive an hour to find out if their son was still alive.

I'd take a bolt of lightening not to have them go through that again.

reply to post by pianopraze


We all struggle daily in one way or another. This is life. What I do may help you. Its worth trying??

When I felt life was not worth living......I began turning my focus off of me and onto others. When we focus so much on self and our trials and tribulations it becomes overwhelming. Some of us are wired to end it ....possibly. Changing my way of thinking in any struggle is a "survival" mode. Living life as an unconditional loving entity is my focus. I educate myself to the point of insanity at times but it is my way of getting out of a reality I do not wish for at times.

I have experienced a lot of hell and pain only to come out of it saying NO..... I will conquer this if it is the last thing I do! DO not give in to the insanity of chaos in the mind. Change it .....you can .....and you will if you really want to.