CHIMERA - Scientists creating human and animal hybrids

Originally posted by sighler
Hahaha, I know it sounds ludicrous, but in 2003 the Chinese have already fused human embryos with rabbit eggs. These embryos lived for days until scientists killed them after their research was complete. WHAT IF these embryos were left to develop and were planted into a womb to grow? Imagine a human with rabbit-like features haha *sigh*. Christ.. this is crazy.. I know we're all curious, but this is.. it feels wrong

This isn't a chimera. This is a cybrid. There is no indication that a human will develop using an mtDNA / RNA packet from a completely different animal. The concept itself is slightly insane, in that it under-estimates the importance of RNA and metabolism differences between species.

If it did work, the person would be a person. A person with a wholly different metabolism than every other human. But a human nonetheless.

They are using rabbits and other such animals because it is easy to get their eggs. Not because the result is likely to continue developing. If these scientists were looking to develop an actual embryo into a fetus and then a baby they would use animals much closer to our line.

However, getting those eggs are even harder than just getting human eggs.

We are by far the most successful breeders in our Superfamily, and I'd have to look closely but I bet we are in our entire Order.

A human with a different metabolic package is a human. Plain and simple. Possibly a really messed up human.

reply to post by Aeons


Thanks for pointing that out! It just happened to be in the article I was reading and I thought to include it in this thread. It was also in the Ancient Aliens episode where scientists go into further detail about why they did this. It was partially the speculation of what kind of human would come from this 'Cybrid' (Cytoplasmic hybrid?), which lead to my assumption.

What would you think if instead of rabbit eggs, scientists used eggs from pigs? Since pigs would be closer to humans in terms of DNA. They are already growing human blood in pigs and I think even human organs and what not possibly in the near future. Just a thought.

I can tell you what I suspect would happen.

The end-result of the cybrid experiments is not to create a person. They are to create a stem-cell line for research. Possibly there are some other reasons to do this, but the end result currently isn't to create a person or even some sort of cross human.

Now, if someone was looking to let one of these experiments get out of the petri dish, I can riff on that.

Let me start with - I think the role of RNA is not well understood in mammal reproduction. Not only do I think it is not well understood, I think its importance is vastly under-rated.

If you put everything needed to make a human into a pig ovum, and then wanted to let it develop I think your results will be impacted by where you let it develop. In a pig? In a human? In a device? In another mammal?

I think all of these options will fail to continue to allow a fetus to develop to term.

An external incubator for mammals is not on the near horizon. The lack of understanding of RNA, and the fact that we don't come close to being able to understand what is necessary in development in the uterus for a mammal means that we can't replicate it. Further, even if someone does manage to get another mammal to reproduce in a device, we may have a very difficult time assessing that animals fitness as being the animal it is.

What I mean by that, is that even as babies and small children, if children are not in contact with humans they fail to develop into a socially recognizable human. Measuring this effect in another species is something I cannot even begin to fathom. It makes the idea of taking an orphan domestic bear and successfully releasing it into the wild seem simple.

With preemies, the results we are getting from them might be squewed. Their parents and caretakers are by necessity vastly involved with the needs of that baby. Assuming the success of an incubating device for term babies from the success of preemies and their highly invested parents and society could be seriously misleading. Particularly when the child in question here is institutionalized by definition from before birth.

The scientific need to limit your factors to obtain a result that can be studied, and having loving human parents to overcome the deficit of the circumstances are mutually exclusive.

Pig metabolism is for pigs. A pig's cell needs are so different than a humans that the fetus has to fail.

However, I suspect that if you implanted this cybrid into pig, a cow, and a human you would get different levels of development. I also suspect that if you suppressed the immune systems of these three species, that the development might continue for a bit longer.

I would lay a nice shiny coin on a human uterus, and specifically a human on a immuno-suppressive regime, would develop for longer than the others.

On the off chance that you managed to get a fetus to develop enough that it is viable with lots of help - I would suspect that the baby would die soon of organ failure. And that the baby's brain would be very much compromised.

The demanding metabolic needs of the human brain are unique.

As usual, my 2 cents of thoughts without an available fact to verify them.

There's no reason to say ET's are responsible for something when humans have the capabilities today.

reply to post by sighler


I saw on Ancient Aliens this Thursday about giving a dog two heads and switching heads on two monkeys and mixing rabbit DNA with human DNA but the dog & monkey lived three days. I think that this is horrid animal cruelty/abuse myself, now I know why PETA get's P'Oed. There's also pigs with human blood cells now, they are allowed to live. They hope to use their organs for transplants for humans, but these other grotesque studies, one has to wonder WTH are they doing this for, I mean what is the purpose?

reply to post by ldyserenity


I don’t trust PETA one bit. Have you seen the figures on the number of animals they terminate each year? Did you know that they are anti-animal testing (a good thing); however one of their head-honchos is diabetic. She requires insulin. Sources of insulin for clinical use in humans are cow, horse, pig or fish pancreases. Insulin from these sources is effective in humans as it is nearly identical to human insulin (three amino acid difference in bovine insulin, one amino acid difference in porcine). That’s fine by them, yet apparently my child is not allowed to have a pet goldfish. PETA are against animals kept as pets.

They do nothing other than make millions of dollars and make no attempt to re-house animals. They prefer to terminate them. Ask them about the dumped dog corpses scandal or the gigantic meat freezer they had to purchase. Or maybe even their links to The Earth Liberation Front (another terrorist organisation). Their hypocrisy disgusts me. All the while they have the likes of Pamela Anderson as their spokesperson. Pamela Anderson who drove around in her lovely luxury car complete with leather seats...

The USDA has labelled PETA a terrorist organisation. Their advertising methods, violent protests and links to known dangerous people are well known. Ingrid Newkirk (head of PETA) leads a cult. I've seen her speeches. She rants and waves her hands in a very similar way to a certain German man from WW2 times...

Errr… Sorry for the rant! I just really really hate PETA. They could do so much yet they don’t. What they would have us believe and what they actually do are two different things.

Put it this way. If PETA were stuck on an island with animals do you think they would eat grass?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f12a4d1de560.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by ldyserenity


Vladimir Demikhov was one of the pioneers behind heart and organ transplant surgery during the 1930-50s. I am not sure if the dog head transplant is related to that aspect of his studies, but apparently it was inspired by an unplanned surgery by a Professor A. G. Konevskiy who was trying to save a puppy that had just been hit by a car, to which he performed the first head transplant in recorded history. Not too sure about the last fact, I know wikipedia can be very wrong sometimes, and have not found much information on that professor.

Demikhov's surgery later inspired the American scientist, Dr. Robert J. White to perform the monkey head transplant... The response from the scientific community at the time was to ignore and prevent their careers from ever becoming successful in the scientific world. Is that how the science world deals with these issues? Just never talk about them?

Again, most of this is done by scientists to advance in some areas such as organ transplants, spinal cord reattachment, etc. "For the sake of science", but it is still a horrible and a wrong thing to do nonetheless. It is horrible and I can only direct you to my last post (page 1) about what the Japanese surgeons did to their Chinese prisoners in WWII.

reply to post by Aeons


Thank you for your thorough opinion on the topic. You surely have influenced my take on the issue of cybrid research and I will be sure to get expert opinions on whatever I research next before jumping to assumptions.

Originally posted by Balkan
reply to post by sighler

 

There are no valid reasons to perform these sick experiments on humans or animals. None.

As Aeons mention on page two theres various pharmacetical resons, which make some of the research valid.

Following text is more for my own amusement than my perception of reality:
Writing this to feed the doomsdayprofecies a little in a perspective of cloning, hybrids, cybrids and chimera's.
According to the Islandic sagas and scandinavian vikingmyth's (Norse Mythology) The gods will decent to earth to fight the "giants/jætter/Vætter" which is a kind of trolllike giant race. The "leading" gods like Oding and Thor will face enormous cybrid chimeras in the final battle of Ragnarok

I think folks may be focusing on the wrong details, here.

The ethical argument is a valid one, and as an animal lover myself, it's tough to think about some of the (possible) inhumane aspects of these types of procedures. But, if we could for a moment, let's focus on the science behind it, and what it may ultimately indicate from strictly a historical perspective.

We have the science NOW, to create crude versions of many of the hybrid creatures spoken about in ancient scriptures, myths and legends. And, clearly AATers acknowledge that any being capable of mastering genetic manipulations in this manner (as well as the other sciences) would surely be further advanced in this area, as well.

And, really... considering how far we've come, as 'primitive humans'...







Is this really that far-fetched of an idea?!





I submit that it is not (far-fetched), and that perhaps much of scripture, myth and legend be reclassified as history!

Originally posted by sighler
reply to post by Aeons

 

Thank you for your thorough opinion on the topic. You surely have influenced my take on the issue of cybrid research and I will be sure to get expert opinions on whatever I research next before jumping to assumptions.

It is a complicated field. I don't pretend to be an expert. I just find the field interesting.

There are quite a few really good online tutorials from some universities on the differences between types of DNA, and inheritance models. I'd suggest starting there. Getting a clear idea of the differences between nDNA, yDNA, mtDNA, can help set the foundation for this.

Good topic
Here is Stalin's ape man a very good documentary worth the time to watch.

reply to post by sighler


Mankind just won't learn. This is the crap that caused God to flood the Earth in Noahs time. Science fails to be God ? He did say, he would never flood the earth again. But I wonder, is that going to be a good thing ?

reply to post by flyingfish


Thanks for contributing! This slipped my mind when writing this thread, but I hope others check this out as well.

...so, the Dulce base nightmares may be real?
2nd line.

Originally posted by sighler

Originally posted by TRiPWiRE
WTF??!!

Why the hell do we need to chop dogs heads off & plant them onto another recipient?

That photo made me want to grab those freakish scientists and throttle them. Slowly.

* Runs outside to hug my dogs...

It is a horrible thing to do, most scientists do not let morality get in their way of scientific advancements. I'm sure there were reasons such as developing technology to reattach spinal cords, which could benefit quadriplegics...

I remember reading of WWII when the Japanese invaded China. Japanese surgeons would experiment on their Chinese captives, surgically cutting them open, removing and replacing organs while their captives were still conscious. They'd even test their weapons on their captives, testing how many bullets and where on the body a shot would kill a man, and an occasional beheading, just for fun. Endless lives were ended at their expense, for their scientific developments and pleasure.

Gah, yes, it's horrific what some scientists get away with doing, but this stuff happens and it's "the order of things"... The world is full of sick people and whether those people realise it or not, these experiments still occur to this day, be it on animals or humans.

well said! people need to remember the mantra that some scientists repeat to them selves..... "your need to crack a few eggs to make an omlet" in certin context its a very morbid mantra. anyways....us deep ones have been breeding with you humans for years. im living proof all though im the last of the hybrids left on dry land. i keep telling your people your #ed but no one pays attention.....

I think the advancement of our scientists is well beyond what we know. This is fine. Sure it raises very ethical questions. But ethics can be entirely based on perceptions that society has come up with.

Raise a child. Don't teach them right from wrong. But give them as much scientific knowledge as you can.

I think, ethics can be a barrier to what we may be able to accomplish.

Take ethics and God out of the equation...would that mean destruction? Or would that free us up to super advance our race?

IF aliens existed, and IF they were able to come here, what ethics is their society based on? Surely not our earthly God or Gods...What is right or wrong, to them? We may not have any perception of that...and just blindly call them "evil".

I dunno. I'm interested in what we could do without ethics, or God. But honestly, I'm not brave enough do discard them, myself.

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
Have you all seen the movie Splice? with Adrian Brody? It has a lot to do with mixing human DNA, and animal DNA. Its a good movie but disturbing at parts....

Especially when it has sex with both of them at different times.

There would be two ways to create a new species. One way would be to alter the genetic code to recombine two separate species int on new on by design. The other is more like in the new movie
Rise of the Planet of the Apes " where somehow stem cells are turned into a virus and multiply causing advanced genetic mutations such as higher brain function etc. This one is more believable because altering an existing code of DNA is better than recombining two separate ones as the one that is altered would be stronger and more readily able to reproduce itself.

www.youtube.com...





BTW, if you haven't seen " Rise of the Planet of the Apes " you should. The Apes are animated but you can't tell they are. The movie was done perfectly and had good believable story plots to it.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Thanks for the support! Haha, yes I have noticed that this thread has taken a turn that I did not intend, but it is nice to know that people are so passionately open to express their views on ethics and morality.

I would not be surprised by what scientists could do in 20-30 years time in relation to the CHIMERA theory. Though I think we would all be shocked and horrified at the result and what science and greedy corporations would do with these advancements...

It will be a long time until historians and scientists will even look at the Ancient Astronaut Theory, which is so unfortunate. If any, even a fraction of the discoveries were verified by the mainstream 'knowledge & logic lords of all the universe & time/space' then that would open the minds of the masses. Only then is when I think we will start to move out of our primitive state, which I mean by state-of-mind.

Hmmm, I may have lost my train of though haha. It is quite late here and I am lacking sleep so please excuse me if I have said anything contradictory.