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posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:56 AM
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MrNecros...maybe its not ALL masons but just the organization you were involved in. I really dont see what the big deal about Masons is anyhow?

Lets just say (purely hypothetical) that these people get together and worship the devil and find ways to take over the world. Now, why would I care about that. If someone wants to worship the devil, that is their right and if they want to take over the world, well......

All I can surmise about MOST Masons is that they are a group of people who get together and drink, and not much more...at least thats what I see them do.

I'm not suggesting that SOME Masons are not evil, as I'm sure there are SOME evil organizations in this world, but to suggest that they are ALL evil is just plain wrong. Sure, one organization may be trying to ruin your life, but I highly doubt the Kiwanas, Moose, or Elks lodges do much more than talk to each other and drink!

[edit on 17-8-2004 by Jazzerman]




posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:59 AM
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I'm just waiting for a reponse. I requested simple details, that if I were in his shoes, would provide with no hesitation whatsoever.

I'm sure MrNecros will reply and give us some specifics. It will after all, help others immensely.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:05 PM
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Some one wrote:

I've been reading this site for a while now, but I've never posted anything. I saw this topic and read the gentleman's initial message of apology. I expected to read replies of a positive nature since I assumed most would be impressed that this man would have the integrity and fortitude to publicly offer an apology. I then find several individuals making the thread into their own forum for negativity. What an incredible disappointment.

If you don't like a particular group, ideal or concept, that's fine. Post a message regarding that where it's appropriate. This thread was about a man doing something honourable. Several of you walked all over that. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I'm ashamed of you. I'm sure your parents, spouses, children and friends would be ashamed of you as well. What a disappointment.

To the gentleman that posted the original message of apology. Good for you, sir.

To this I would just like to say Hear Hear.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

People who have no weaknesses are terrible; there is no way of taking advantage of them



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Again, I am sorry and I hope that you all accept my apology. Please do not secretly feel hate towards me.


I absolutely do not.



I am sorry AlexKennedy and Theron. Please forgive me.


I personally forgive you absolutely, without let or hinderance.



Please do not think I am crazy either.


Those who take responsibility for their actions are rarely crazy.



I was just in a situation in my life that I needed to get myself out of.


I'm sorry about that. I hope you get it sorted out soon, and to your benefit.



Again, I am not claiming that what Alex or Theron say is true. I just wave my old statements against Freemasonry and hope that you all accept this.


No problem. Hopefully people will see that I write is true because I've argued for them reasonably.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
"The Book" by Charles T McClenechan are the 2 books they don't really want you to read.


I've never heard of the above book. I would strongly encourage everyone to read "Morals and Dogma," but read it all the way through, so you can see what it's really talking about, and not just what Mr. Necros wants you to see.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
So you would recomend joining Al Queda or the Nazi party before saying anything about them.
Be serious.


OK, let's get serious. The Nazi Party has proavably done things wrong -- the evidence is incontrovertable, and members have been tried and convicted in international courts (Nuremburg). Al Queda have provably done things wrong, and not only that, but its own members admit to using violence. Again, all of these facts are incontrovertable, and convincing proof is publicly available.

Now, let's see your proof which will convince a court of law indicating how evil Freemasons are. Come on, show it.



I've had 3 years of constant harassment out of these people,


Proof?



it would be hard to say anything nice about a bunch of wackos who lurk in the shadows until they have you drugged senseless


Proof?



and outnumbered 20 to 1 before going in for the kill...on your toilet.


Proof?



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Justmytype
oh stop, Detectiveperez is a very good liar, what a better way to get closer to your enemies, make them believe you are truley sorry and befriend them. Learn what you can, get as much inside info as possible, then attack. Becareful people this is deception at its finest, really read all of his posts before gently bowing your head for his apology. He has a very strong belief on things which are of not a kind nature towards masons.


I don't think this is true. But even if it is (which I don't think it true), Masons have an obligation to forgive the penitent. It's part of what we are. Everyone gets a second chance.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Yes ALL Freemasons are pathological liars, its part of their programming along with the cowardice bit....This is a mind control cult - not a charity.


MrNECROS

I find you insistence on sticking with this argument quite frustrating. I have no idea of hw many masons there are globally, but there is even a masonic lodge where I live (I am not a member). According to this site there are

"How many Freemasons are there?

Under the United Grand Lodge of England, there are 330,000 Freemasons, meeting in 8,644 lodges. There are separate Grand Lodges for Ireland (which covers north and south) and Scotland, with a combined membership of 150,000. Worldwide, there are probably 5 million members. [Note: these figures are as at January 1999]..."

Therefore, you are categorically saying that 330 000 people are liars and cowards?? I think that is seriously over-stating the case MrNECROS - and an insult to the vast majority of good, hard working masons out there. Of course, there *will* be some "rogue" members as there are in all walks of Life - and perhaps, from your experiences you've been exposed to them - but I still maintain that you cannot brand every mason in this fashion. It is unfair and patently untrue and absurb.

Agreed Mr NECROS?

And I think it is a shame that you have effectively hijacked this thread for your own purposes. Very many apologies to DetectivePerez on behalf of the ATS Community.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:38 PM
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Ok, this thread definitely "changed" from the first post.

DetectivePerez, it definitely took guts to do this, and I respect your apology, but be careful, because you might go from "close minded hater" to "close minded lover", so to speak. Let me elaborate.

When you say you will strive to love all people, this does not mean you should ignore everything about them that you deem "bad". To suppress your intuition, and your emotions, and logic, is to set yourself up for some harsh lessons. Try not to look at things as GOOD or BAD, which means, do not JUDGE others - that would be subjective and therefore ALWAYS false. However, "love" to me would mean to respect their free to CHOOSE to be and do as they wish, and to KNOW them in an objective sense. Which means, if they treat others like dirt, or exhibit psychopathic tendencies, or anything ELSE for that matter, take note of this. This does not warrant you to "hate" them - but to IGNORE WHAT IS, is to ignore reality.

Don't assume innocence. Don't assume guilt. Simply don't assume anything you don't KNOW, and try to see what IS objectively, without judgement of "good" or "bad" or "right" or "wrong", as those don't exist.


MrNECROS, Let's say that the Nazis had a goal (hypothetically), which was to establish a brotherhood of man. However, their way to obtain this goal was to slaughter all who disagree. Also, this "brotherhood" would not be of EQUAL men, but in a hierarchy. The leader at the top, and the "serfs" or "slaves" at the bottom. As usual, the devil is in the details.

However, not ALL nazis had the same ideals/goals/dreams. They were ALL responsible for being complacent, but some were simply too scared to object. Same as, not ALL Christians think the spanish inquisition was the proper way of doing things, but some might still think forcing others to follow your beliefs, and persecuting those who don't is the right way to go. Objectively, neither is "right" or "wrong". One is willing to violate free will of others, and force them to believe things. The other is not. That is all. Not ALL christians are completely close minded, and follow everything in the Bible. Some are only Christians as more of a hereditary status, or out of habit. Some are very hateful towards everyone who is NOT Christian, but this doesn't represent the whole, once again.

Same goes for ANY group. Some Masons might have a "superiority complex", while others are very peaceful, and respect everyone. Humans, as a whole, are service to self entities. Therefore, they LIKE to feel superior to others, and establish all kinds of groups and organizations (including religions) to allow themselves to do just that. The amount of "superiority complex" differs, depending on how far the person is willing to go. The devil, once again, is in the details. I advise that you understand that ALL humans are SERVICE TO SELF, with no exception. Some, take it further, and consciously embrace this. Others do it less consciously, and more automatically, as they have been conditioned by society and other sources, and simply don't realise what they are doing for the most part.

One obvious example is, suicide bombers think that what they do is JUST, GOOD, and RIGHT, in the name of "God". That's just an example of how SUBJECTIVE those words are. This "suicide bomber" has been conditioned to believe certain things, and he WANTS to believe them because it feels good to believe them (like believing that you are superior to someone feels good). Consciously, he thinks he's doing people a favor. In reality, he's just violating a lot of free will, killing himself and others, and giving an excuse for war to continue. But denial of REALITY (of what IS) is a natural SERVICE TO SELF property, and to an extent, we're ALL doing this. The vast majority see very little of what IS, due to wishful thinking.

Therefore, to see only "positive" and ignore the negative is STS and ignorant. To see only the negative and ignore the positive is just as ignorant of reality. The key is not to see what you WANT to see, but to see what IS, in an objective way. That also means to never ignore that which you don't WANT to see or don't want to consider as being true.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents.

-Mike

P.S. - Since this is a conspiracy forum, what are the chances that DetectivePerez was threatened by the masons in real life to take back all that he said or else they'll "hurt" him? Gotta love a good conspiracy...


[edit on 17-8-2004 by lilblam]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 01:38 PM
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I'm still waiting for details. It's alright, though, MrNecros is probably busy with other things. I'd be interested to see him connect the dots.

We finally have a reasonable debate going on.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 02:12 PM
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I do not hate you, or really hold any strong emotions about you one way or the other. I object to uninformed attacks, and appreciate it that you have shown the intestinal fortitude to apologize and step back from the edge.

As for MrNecros, it is clear that this man is a troll. He rants and raves against masons trying to "force" him to join, when that is NEVER done. Period. End of statement. NO grand lodge allows this kind of activity, and what is particularly telling in his rant is that HE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT MASONRY ANYWAY. He is talking about Rosicrucians, which is an entirely different organzation.

What is even more telling is that, even when this has been pointed out to him, that MrNecros continues to rail that he has been harassed by masons, even as he continues to define the Rosicrucians as the source of his "challenges".

It is my personal opinion, based on reading the rants, and the obvious confusion about who is actually harassing him and how they are harassing him and why they are harassing him that MrNecros is part of the tinfoil hat brigade, and is likely a paranoid scisophrenic...

I am sorry, but that's just what it appears. Paranoia run amok... nothing he writes really makes sense, and reading it, as a Mason, I can recognize that he is not really relating anything relative TO masonry, except the name...



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
You really don't understand the point do you?
By Masonic logic You don't know any of these things because you aren't a Nazi - you are misinterpreting the facts and being misled by Anti-Nazis.

As for my own personal experiences with Freemasonry:
They drug you


Cool! Where do I sign up for this?!?!



They steal from you (sometimes they put the things back much later on, but not always.)
If they want something (like your girlfriend) they will do anything to get it because they "deserve it" even if they are incapable of obtaining it in any case.
They are pathological liars - i.e. do not know the difference between fact and fantasy, as long as everyone agrees then its right.
They are craven cowards, they will sit in front of you any deny their afilliation until the cows come home and won't ever do anything to you unless they have you grossly outnumbered.
If you say you don't want to join and you work for a Mason boss he will go to great lengths to dismiss you regardless of your proficiency, you will be overlooked for all promotion and be given the least rewarding tasks in the company etc...
They vandalise your property (car, motorcycle, toilet...)
They steal your mail.


So that is where my Victoria Secret catalog went.



They interfere with every part of your daily life they can....and if they can't get to you directly they will go after your friends and family.


Hmmm... so my coffee that tasted bitter today was because of them?



I have had 3 years years of their BS, for a time I had the "I pity the poor deluded Blue Lodgers..." ideology but now I see them as just being a different kind of evil.


If you pester anyone enough they are going to cause you crap. Don't be so quick to put blame on the masons... maybe you are the reason for the problems you are encountering.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:24 PM
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When I would make a post about freemasonry and a mason would respond, the result was never love. The result was never anything positive. Therefore looking back at it now, there was no reason for my statements.

I believe that it is very important to have the emotion of love. For example, if you love a friend because he or she makes you laugh. Or if you love a song because it makes you want to sing really lound or if you love getting together with a bunch of people. This is what life is all about!

I knew this all before, but somehow I was sucked in to debating which rarely ever leads to love. So now I have realized that there is no room for hot-headed discussions. It takes time away from me doing the things I really love.

NeonHelmet, Thank you for being a very good friend! Please do not think I am a coward for what I write
You too know that it is important to love people. I feel that my posts were distracting me from doing so.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 04:22 PM
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I would like to make a plea, lets not waste anymore energy on whether you believe Perez to be telling the truth lets let him have his peace, you are like a pack of wolves assaulting every one who do not feel the way you feel, I think that what Detective Perez has done shows more courage than any of you have ever shown me.
But I know I am an ignorant little adolescent troll looking for drama, and guess what I found it.

*Standing applause for Detective Perez*

Now in respect to Perez lets keep this thread clean stick to the subject please.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

Fathers send their sons to college either because they went to college or because they didn't



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 04:58 PM
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DetectivePerez:

What I have found with Masons (and practically anyone I would imagine) is the kind of response you get is directly proportional to the way in which you pose your question/comment. If you come with accusations and immediately put people on the defensive, you are not very likely to get a "peaches and cream" conversation going. Take me for instance. When I came to ATS I knew very little about Freemasonry, and what little I did "know" came from the infamous Mr Necros' precious www.freemasonrywatch.org.

I came here to learn about all the evil machinations of this Satan-worsipping, baby-burning, no-traffic-ticket-getting Masons. HOWEVER, instead of opening with attacks and slander, I asked honest questions from a genuine desire to understand, not to undermine. The result was that I got not only the answers I was looking for but alot more. EVERY time I have asked these guys a sincere question it has been met with a sincere, polite, usually exaustive answer (especialy in ML's case). You get what you give, reap what you sow. If you have an attitude, you will get attitude. Kudos to you for being humble enough to admit when you are wrong.


MrNECROS:

You never cease to amaze me. Get a grip, guy, get a grip, Oh for the love of Pete get a grip!!! Oh, and in the future I would definitely go with a stainless steel crapper if I were you... More resistant to Masonic attacks!


LTD602:

Don't hold your breath for MrNecros to prove anything or offer any details. I've had this same go-round with him. He's full of it. He has only proven his own ignorance and paranoia.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
I would like to make a plea, lets not waste anymore energy on whether you believe Perez to be telling the truth lets let him have his peace, you are like a pack of wolves assaulting every one who do not feel the way you feel, I think that what Detective Perez has done shows more courage than any of you have ever shown me.


Really? You think we Masons are assauting DP after he apologised? Perhaps you should bone up on your reading skills. Allow me to quote some of the responses:


Originally posted by JCMinJapan
I really appreciate this apology. I respect your opinion on the masons (although, I do disagree), and I thank you for your apology.



Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Detective~~~

I look forwrd to your future posts. Putting your bad feelings/actions aside can only help you to find what you seek.



Originally posted by AlexKennedy

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Again, I am sorry and I hope that you all accept my apology. Please do not secretly feel hate towards me.


I absolutely do not.



I am sorry AlexKennedy and Theron. Please forgive me.


I personally forgive you absolutely, without let or hinderance.



Originally posted by theron dunn
I do not hate you, or really hold any strong emotions about you one way or the other. I object to uninformed attacks, and appreciate it that you have shown the intestinal fortitude to apologize and step back from the edge.


We're a "pack of wolves," eh? Nice troll move, NeonHelmet -- we all have forgiven and are being nice to DP, but apparently the truth doesn't matter to you even when it's documented on the same thread as your post!



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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AK I didnt imply that you were assaulting him in this thread and yes most of you masons did take his apology nicely!
WELL DONE!
The pack of wolfs remark was a general impression I have of all the other threads DP has made or posted in.
Lets keep the peace and may DP rest in peace.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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He's NOT dead, he's just come to his senses, and apparently realizes that attacking without a shred of factual data is injurious to the case he is trying to make... too bad that the hate YOU are spewing isn't being self contained through the use of the higher brain functions.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 05:37 PM
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the RIP part was a joke but hey why am i even trying you misunderstand me on purpose dont you !

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

[edit on 17-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 06:00 PM
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You launched forth with a fairly hateful anti-jew all masons are jewish lackeys spew recently, and continue with this masons are all hateful secret satan worshippers nonsense, and have yet to provide ANYTHING other than your "belief" that it is true, and you want to make JOKES with us?

Get real. You act like a troll and you want to be treated like Jerry Seinfeld... are you sure you didn't hit your head on something hard lately?



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